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GWbiker
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 449 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 05:33 am |
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......appears to be well on it's way to the Governor.......
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/296211.php
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jmelvin
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 387 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:48 pm |
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Better than nothing I suppose. I'm surprised Arizona is taking the path of some of the northeastern states. It's funny to read the comments folk put down on the comment section associated with the article. It's like people don't even realize that you can openly carry a firearm without a CCW (granted unloaded) in restaurants that serve alcohol in the state immediately to the west and loaded in every state surrounding Arizona, except for New Mexico.
*Edited to add: I've been going over this in my head thinking of the gun laws of various states and I cannot think of another state that allows for open carry (licensed or unlicensed) that then turns around and requires that a person carry only concealed in places serving alcohol. Even Ohio's proposed legislation allows for either type of carry, although carry will be restricted to CHL holders only unless the legislation is fixed.
Hopefully next legislative session the legislators will make this right.
Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 02:13 pm by jmelvin
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Thoreau
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:19 pm |
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I do love some of the 'logic' many people use to hurl their anti-gun mindset around. Oh well, stupid people make me look smarter =)
In the meantime, I do hope this gets signed in and quickly. After getting my CCW permit earlier this year I have found that eating out is a pain in the ass, moreso than it need be. Aside from the fact that I am unarmed for no reason other than to munch on some food, I also HATE leaving a weapon in my car (and this isn't bragging, but being a BMW, it already shouts 'break into me and steal my stuff' loudly enough on its own. It doesn't need to actually provide goodies for would-be thieves.)
Anywho, hurry up and sign it Brewer!
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 05:49 pm |
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Used to be a time when you could walk into most any bar/restaurant ... unbuckle your gun belt 'n hand it to the barkeep. Dunno why that went away (most places).
It prevented your firearm from being left unattended... Nobody had problems 'til the California influence.
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AZkopper
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 09:00 pm |
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| One step at a time people, one step at a time. First, lets get this passed. Then work on loosening the restrictions. Everything in baby steps, to help 'normalize' it. The anti's have been using this tactic for years, it's about time we used it.
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AZkopper
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 10:01 pm |
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| Here's the real funny part: As written, those who are armed cannot consume. Those who are armed must have a CWP, and most likely will be conceal carrying. There will be no way for servers to know if they are serving an armed person or not. If the law allowed OC, or demanded OC in such places, it would at least be internally consistant.
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JesseL
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 07:50 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Used to be a time when you could walk into most any bar/restaurant ... unbuckle your gun belt 'n hand it to the barkeep. Dunno why that went away (most places).
It prevented your firearm from being left unattended... Nobody had problems 'til the California influence.
Hardly anybody carries on a separate gun belt anymore either. Makes it hard to hand the whole thing over to the barkeep when you risk dropping your pants 
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GWbiker
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 449 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 08:53 pm |
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AZkopper wrote: Here's the real funny part: As written, those who are armed cannot consume. Those who are armed must have a CWP, and most likely will be conceal carrying. There will be no way for servers to know if they are serving an armed person or not. If the law allowed OC, or demanded OC in such places, it would at least be internally consistant.
+1. OC would be easiest way to determine who gets the booze, but anti's claim OC would cause panic among other patrons.
Which is odd, since I've OC in dozens of restaurants/buffets/fast food joints in and around Tucson without alarming staff or customers.
I hope some restaurants do post a sign indicating "no weapons". Will make it easier for me to hand out "no guns-no$$" cards....
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crisisweasel
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Marana, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 02:03 am |
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AZkopper wrote: Here's the real funny part: As written, those who are armed cannot consume. Those who are armed must have a CWP, and most likely will be conceal carrying. There will be no way for servers to know if they are serving an armed person or not. If the law allowed OC, or demanded OC in such places, it would at least be internally consistant.
You know, I was against this for basic rights reasons, but I hadn't even thought of that.
What a boneheaded move! I wonder if this came up in debate.
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lostone1413
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 05:11 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Used to be a time when you could walk into most any bar/restaurant ... unbuckle your gun belt 'n hand it to the barkeep. Dunno why that went away (most places).
It prevented your firearm from being left unattended... Nobody had problems 'til the California influence.
Yep To me with the CA. influnce the AZ politicans seem to be getting less and less pro gun
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Count
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| Joined: | Fri Mar 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 06:11 pm |
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| Quite frankly it is disgusting how they water down our rights. One set of laws for permit holders another set for non-permit holders. It is becoming awfully complicated to exercise a simple constitutional right!
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jmelvin
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| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 06:31 pm |
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| What is sad is how this bill was changed to be as restrictive as it is now. The Restaurant Association and its member have every right as business managers to ban firearms carry in their respective restaurants whether the bill limits carry to all or some. Unfortunately the legislature is chosing to give them cover for their anti-self defense ideals.
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Notso
Activist Member
| Joined: | Sun May 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Laveen, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 284 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 06:33 pm |
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| It may not be perfect(yet), but trying to put a positive spin on it, at least we are moving in the right direction. I'm willing to take what I can get now and then we can add to it later. Rights were taken away little by little, that may be the only way we can get them back.
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ixtow
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 01:09 am |
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I'm such an agitator...
If anybody wanted to notice... Even if this law never passes, you can still carry concealed in a place that serves alcohol... Always could. Laws to the contrary are unenforceable. Because, duh, it's concealed.
OMG, I advocate breaking the law! Sue me! Moderate me! Lock my ass up!
You can say 'better than nothing,' but it's still not good enough to be something.
One can also argue... if one carries concealed, how can you know if they should be served or not? Note: Virginia. You HAVE to OC in a booze serving establishment there, such that it may be noted if you may be served or not.
Having to conceal in an establishment that serves alcohol destroys the argument that it keeps carriers from drinking, because there is no way to tell! It's concealed! As a faux pro-gun law, it really changes nothing. Those who are willing to defy government to seize their rights back, have been able to concealed carry anywhere, anytime they want... It's concealed, so there is no way to tell!
And, as usual, you can still get drunk at home with al your guns, and not kill anyone... Just like when you're sober....
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Notso
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:24 am |
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| I'll respectfully disagree. It's not perfect, but it is something. And if this passes, there will be a difference. Those CCW'ers that are inclined to not break the law can now carry and protect themselves and their families in another location. That is a difference. Is it perfect or is it what I wish it were? No, but it is another step.
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ixtow
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:28 am |
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I think you can even find a post or two around here where I said the same thing, but I've become impatient I suppose.
I'm sick of giving up something real so others can have a totally illogical 'feeling.'Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:29 am by ixtow
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Notso
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:31 am |
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| I totally agree with you there, it is completely illogical. Too bad politicians are anything but logical.
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Count
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 07:07 pm |
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| The bill is in the Senate now. If you go to NRA-ILA.org you can look up SB 1113 under Arizona and it lists all the Senators. Email and call them and tell them to add an amendment to restore the original language. We cannot have one tier of laws for open carriers and one for those that have a permit to conceal!
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jmelvin
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 08:36 pm |
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| Good suggestion Count! Arizonans you can still do something about this!
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 09:02 pm |
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Just enter any bar and pull a 'Jedi' on the barkeep. "You do not see a gun. There's no gun here. I am free to imbibe... "
Seriously... how many (especially woman) who CC more so than men in AZ... have complied with this already? How many people who CC have ever complied at all? Then... there certain states where even a 'CC" permit is rarer than a Blue Unicorn... and women (especially) will CC somethin' for their own defense... regardless of what a bunch'a milque-toast, candyassed, hoplophobic control freaks in the gummint (State or local) decree otherwise.
This is just 'something on paper'... whereas the actual dynamic has been something 'people do' anyway for years. 'Think politicians are cognizant of actualities? Not on this planet.
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