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TOF
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:27 pm |
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You can blame the NRA all you want but Arizona legislators are the ones with responsibility for making or repealing Arizona law.
I can appreciate your concern for those of us in Arizona but believe you would be better served writing your Texas legislatures regarding lack of open carry in Texas. I lived there for a few years and some of the laws were a PITA.
Like it or not it is sometimes necessary to compromise.
I am pleased with how the majority of our legislators are handling gun issues and believe we will come out ahead this year. There will almost always be opposition and need for compromise at some level.
Stay safe
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Notso
Activist Member
| Joined: | Sun May 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Laveen, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 284 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:35 pm |
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| I wish it were different also, but it is what it is. I'll take it for now, it's a (small)step in the right direction. Now we just need to get it passed in the House and signed by the Gov. and then on to 'Constitution Carry'.
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Count
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 266 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:36 pm |
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TDF,
I worked closely with TSRA and NRA ref. car carry. In fact I was given a "President's citation" by them after we passed that law. Despite our work and friendship (without mentioning names) I was told that if I bring up the issue of Open carry one more time we may no longer be friends... It looks like they want to play everything very cautiously and keep gun carrying a privilege, not a right, here in Texas. I know the NRA lobbyist for your area and her stance on this issue. Believe me the legislators will listen more to the lobbyists than you or me.
Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:37 pm by Count
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Notso
Activist Member
| Joined: | Sun May 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Laveen, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 284 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:43 pm |
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| Open Carry in Texas will be tough. I grew up in Texas and understand the issues there. I suspect it will eventually take legal action to get OC there.
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Count
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 9th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 266 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:48 pm |
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| People like the idea! The legislators are the dummies!
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Armed4Life
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 06:27 pm |
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| Can anyone explain to me how any restriction on carrying in places that serve alcohol (other than by the owners request) is NOT an impairment to the right to keep and bear arms?
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Count
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 9th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 266 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 06:32 pm |
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| May want to change the word impairment...hehe... Otherwise you are right....
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Dahwg
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 07:18 pm |
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Armed4Life wrote: Can anyone explain to me how any restriction on carrying in places that serve alcohol (other than by the owners request) is NOT an impairment to the right to keep and bear arms?
Either way it's an infringement, however the new law infringes less. It's not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. Thing is SB1270, Constitutional Carry tackles this issue anyway. We should have pushed for SB1270 and ignored this one.
SB1270 says that in spite of any laws on the books, you can carry anywhere if you have a CWP, exceptions are spelled out specifically.
JUST FOUND OUT! SB1270 MOVING!
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21200&forum_id=10&jump_to=455439
Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2009 08:49 pm by Dahwg
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pullnshoot25
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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Notso wrote: Open Carry in Texas will be tough. I grew up in Texas and understand the issues there. I suspect it will eventually take legal action to get OC there.
Out here in Cali, the anti-OC or curious people tell me "This isn't Texas" or ask "What is this, Texas?" when they see my gun. I always respond with "Actually, Texas doesn't have open carry," a response which has lit the fumes of quite a few police officers (they hate being called out on the law.)
I think Texas should have open carry and I can't understand why it got banned in the first place. BRING IT BACK!
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 09:52 pm |
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pullnshoot25 wrote: Notso wrote: Open Carry in Texas will be tough. I grew up in Texas and understand the issues there. I suspect it will eventually take legal action to get OC there.
Out here in Cali, the anti-OC or curious people tell me "This isn't Texas" or ask "What is this, Texas?" when they see my gun. I always respond with "Actually, Texas doesn't have open carry," a response which has lit the fumes of quite a few police officers (they hate being called out on the law.)
I think Texas should have open carry and I can't understand why it got banned in the first place. BRING IT BACK!
Prob'ly was banned in 1867 with the passage of the 14th Amendment. That allowed former slaves to bear arms opr was part of the reconstruction set-up. 'Course Texas is so big... and the 'law' wasn't enforced (then) for the most part. Ranchers had their own 'armies' damn near. Arizona and New Mexico have always been OC, yet they'll refer to 'Texas'? People are ignorant. I mean it... they can't see past their own noses. Pedestrian xenophobia or somethin'. Maryland (forinstance) has a terminal case of that. I'm ashamed to have been born there. The state has become an embarrassment.
The usual response of Kommiefornians seein' my piece is  It's hysterical.
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Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 10:17 pm |
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off subject...but..
Sonora, yesterday I was at a Pawn shop and saw a revolver there that was incredible...huge, probably a foot long or more revolver...of course I thought of you! It was a .22LR but it was a beautiful gun...I should have taken a pic...definately something that the anti's would love to look at, lol.
Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2009 10:24 pm by Crossfire Jedi
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ccwinstructor
Centurion Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Yuma, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 121 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 10:47 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: pullnshoot25 wrote: Notso wrote: Open Carry in Texas will be tough. I grew up in Texas and understand the issues there. I suspect it will eventually take legal action to get OC there.
Out here in Cali, the anti-OC or curious people tell me "This isn't Texas" or ask "What is this, Texas?" when they see my gun. I always respond with "Actually, Texas doesn't have open carry," a response which has lit the fumes of quite a few police officers (they hate being called out on the law.)
I think Texas should have open carry and I can't understand why it got banned in the first place. BRING IT BACK!
Prob'ly was banned in 1867 with the passage of the 14th Amendment. That allowed former slaves to bear arms opr was part of the reconstruction set-up. 'Course Texas is so big... and the 'law' wasn't enforced (then) for the most part. Ranchers had their own 'armies' damn near. Arizona and New Mexico have always been OC, yet they'll refer to 'Texas'? People are ignorant. I mean it... they can't see past their own noses. Pedestrian xenophobia or somethin'. Maryland (forinstance) has a terminal case of that. I'm ashamed to have been born there. The state has become an embarrassment.
The usual response of Kommiefornians seein' my piece is It's hysterical.
Texas has had several Constitutions. The first, before the war between the states, guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms, as it had been essential to win independence from Mexico. This stayed in effect until after the war, whereupon the carpetbagger government changed the Constitution to do away with it by saying you had the right but the legislature could regulate it (sound familiar). The carpetbaggers were unelected in 1872, I think (the carpetbagger governor had to be chased from the governors mansion by a group of armed citizens). Then a new Constitution was created. It went back halfway, guaranteeing the right to bear arms, but giving the legislature the right to regulate the *wearing* of arms. Wherepon the legislature outlawed most wearing of arms, which brought us to the present era when the concealed carry legislation was passed.
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Armed4Life
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 11:59 pm |
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Dahwg wrote:
Armed4Life wrote: Can anyone explain to me how any restriction on carrying in places that serve alcohol (other than by the owners request) is NOT an impairment to the right to keep and bear arms?
Either way it's an infringement, however the new law infringes less. It's not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. Thing is SB1270, Constitutional Carry tackles this issue anyway. We should have pushed for SB1270 and ignored this one.
SB1270 says that in spite of any laws on the books, you can carry anywhere if you have a CWP, exceptions are spelled out specifically.
JUST FOUND OUT! SB1270 MOVING!
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21200&forum_id=10&jump_to=455439
I'm with you 100%...it just seems ridiculous to have to jump through those hoops when it is crystal clear from a constitutional perspective.
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TOF
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 19th, 2009 12:26 am |
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| Write, Email or call your Senator and Reps to urge they get behind SB1270 and make it happen. If Terry Goddard and the Police Chief's have their way it will not.
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Dahwg
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
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Posted: Fri Jun 19th, 2009 08:45 am |
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TOF wrote:
Write, Email or call your Senator and Reps to urge they get behind SB1270 and make it happen. If Terry Goddard and the Police Chief's have their way it will not.
Also, let them know you don't like the amended version. Tell them the original is better. Amended version still makes it illegal to carry on school grounds when responding to an emergency.
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JesseL
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 05:26 pm |
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Looks like it has passed the senate this morning. 19-8 with 3 not voting
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/sb1113.sfinal.1.asp
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Dahwg
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 437 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 06:59 pm |
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JesseL wrote:
Looks like it has passed the senate this morning. 19-8 with 3 not voting
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/sb1113.sfinal.1.asp
PASSED
TRANSMITTED TO: GOVERNOR 07/01/09
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Notso
Activist Member
| Joined: | Sun May 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Laveen, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 284 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 09:11 pm |
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| If she veotes this, do we have enough votes for an override?
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JesseL
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 11:16 pm |
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Notso wrote: If she veotes this, do we have enough votes for an override?
I don't think it matters if there are enough votes, the legislature has adjourned for the season.
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TOF
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 11:30 pm |
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Send her a letter, fax, email or call and urge prompt signing of all 4 2A Bills that are on the way to her desk.
Copied from the AZCDL Alert just received. I hope this is OK Fred.
"Despite the setback with HB 2439, there are four pro-rights bills that made it through the legislative gauntlet and are headed to the governor's desk. They are SB 1113, SB 1168, SB 1243 and SB 1449.
SB 1113, a "Restaurant Carry" bill laden with concessions to appease opponents, passed in the House Third Read yesterday (6/30/09) by a 40-19-1 vote. Early this morning, it passed the Senate Final Read by a 19-8-3 vote. In the final version of SB 1113:
- "Open carry" is not allowed in places serving alcohol. The firearm must be concealed.
- Only individuals with CCW permits may carry a concealed firearm where alcohol is served.
- The individual legally carrying the firearm may not consume alcohol.
- The penalty for violating the law is a class 3 misdemeanor.
- Establishments may prohibit firearms by posting a sign in a specified location.
- It is an "affirmative defense" if the person violating the law "was not informed of the notice," the sign had "fallen down," the person is not a resident of Arizona, or the posted sign has not been up for 30 days.
- However, lack of knowledge (by Arizona residents only) that firearms are prohibited in establishments serving alcohol is no longer a valid defense.
SB 1168 is the Senate bill containing the "strike everything" amendment substituting the language of HB 2474. It passed the Senate Final Read by a vote of 18-9 with 3 not voting. SB 1168 prevents any private or public employer, property owner, etc., from banning any person from keeping a firearm in a locked vehicle in a parking area on the property, with specific limited exceptions. HB 2474, the original "Parking Lot" bill, passed in the House and made it through Senate committees but was dropped when SB 1168 made it through the process first.
SB 1243 passed the House Third Read by a vote of 42-12-6 on June 29. Since the language in SB 1243 remained unchanged, it was sent back to the Senate where it was formally sent to the Governor this morning. SB 1243 is the AzCDL-requested bill that codifies the defensive display of a firearm.
Another very important bill that passed this session is SB 1449 which applies, retroactively, statutory changes relating to justification defenses in all cases in which the defendant did not plead guilty or no contest that were submitted to the fact finder as of April 24, 2006. In plain language this means that the restoration of the "innocent until proven guilty" language that passed out of the Legislature via SB 1145 in 2006 retroactively applies to cases pending at the time of passage. The most infamous of these was the trial of Harold Fish, who defended himself while hiking and was prosecuted under the 1997 "guilty until proven innocent" law. Even though SB 1145 became law in the middle of Mr. Fish's trial, he was convicted under the older law. You can read more about Mr. Fish's case here: http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/ .
This has been a very bizarre legislative session. With the focus almost entirely on the budget, very little time was spent on non-budget bills, and there was a mad rush to end the session and filter out as many bills as possible. Without the constant pressure YOU provided via your emails, letter and phone calls, AzCDL's representatives (who went home this morning after staying all night lobbying and counting votes at the Capitol) would not have been able to keep pro-rights bill in the pipeline. Pat yourselves on the back – Job Well Done!
Unfortunately, we're not out of the woods yet. The Legislature may have adjourned but the Governor now has a stack of bills on her desk to sign, ignore or veto. Her priority is the budget. The Legislature deliberately waited until Sine Die to send the budget to the Governor. If she vetoes the budget, state bureaucracies grind to a halt. A "do over" budget will require the Governor to call a Special legislative session, with more delays. It boils down to gamesmanship and who blinks first. All the non-budget bills might become pawns in the power struggle.
Meanwhile, the next step is to start asking the Governor to sign these bills. Her email address is azgov@az.gov. You can also fax a letter to her at 602-542-1381. Or you can mail it to her at the following address:
The Honorable Jan Brewer
Governor of Arizona
1700 West Washington
Phoenix, Arizona 85007
You can call her office, toll free, at 1-800-253-0883 or 602-543-4331."
If we flood her office with messages of support she will sign to get us off her back. (I hope)
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