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GWbiker
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 449 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:32 am |
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marshaul wrote: So, basically, because you can't come up with a decent answer for my question, you talk about California some more? I thought this was the Arizona subforum... 
For the last time, I was raised in Virginia. Even if that weren't so, my current state of residence is wholly irrelevant.
Face it, your "conservative" mind just "gloms" on "illegal alien", and all of a sudden you conveniently forget that rights are derived from human nature rather than the Constitution (which merely enumerates a few of them as explicitly protected), and when confronted with this fact you have no response but to sputter illogical irrelevancies about California.
Even in Arizona, the Fourth amendment applies to all persons, not just citizens. Why not the Second?
I fail to understand what actually valid reason there is for denying the right to self-defense for any peaceable human being. So far, you've presented noting more than A: you don't like them, and B: the Bill of Rights doesn't protect illegals (which it, in fact, does, at least in parts).
At best, you still have yet to show why the 4th Amendment applies to everyone but only citizens have the right to self-defense.
Of course, this is an impossible argument, for no amount of legal or "intellectual" wrangling will change the fundamental basis of rights: that they are not distributed by government, but are derived from the nature of what human beings are.
The right to self defense for any peaceable human being.
Right.....Well put, now Goggle the California Gun Control Act of 1923, when Sacramento with the help of the state KKK, passed CCW license legislation (may issue) and a two day waiting period aimed at controlling Chinese and Latino citizens.
I'll say it again, fix California's problems first, then come lecture us!
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:49 am |
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I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians.
And California is irrelevant.
You're not even being snarky, you're just demonstrating a profound inability to use reason.Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:54 am by marshaul
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GWbiker
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 449 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:02 am |
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marshaul wrote: I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians.
And California is irrelevant.
You're not even being snarky, you're just demonstrating a profound inability to use reason.
Cute, but you're still pissing in the wind.
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:53 am |
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One of the most offensive things I've ever seen is a canadian border guard coming on a school bus crossing the border for a field trip with a garbage bag, asking for "self defense products" It's a natural right, and one that I feel every good person around the world is entitled to. I don't pretend to have all the answers about who should be allowed to do what when, but I do know I have no problems with a good person arming himself where he pleases.
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spartans
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 21st, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 04:33 am |
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Wow, quite a discussion going.. I guess I should ‘clear a few things up’ so-to-speak.
Who am I??
Without saying too much – I am a 28 year old High School teacher who is also an active duty reservist in the Canadian Military.
I recently completed a 8 month tour in Afghanistan – quite the place.
Reason for visiting US?
My girlfriend and I are going on a road trip. Crossing at Detroit and driving to Utah (reason I posted on their site about the same issues), the to Nevada, Arizona, and back up through Colorado before making our way home.
Been to Arizona once, LOVED IT. I would like to move there one day possibly retirement. Something about the desert I guess (and no snow – for the most part!)
Reason for bringing firearms to States?
A few really.
One, to hunt. Why a pistol? Here in Canada, we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol – thus I would love to opportunity to try this as it is not something I am able to do at home.
Why a 9mm? Unfortunately, a 9mm Glock 17 is the only pistol I currently own. I may not be the best choice for hunting, but it is all I have.
Why am I not picky as to what to hunt?
Again, as we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol here, anything I can legally hunt with a 9mm (again, my only pistol) is fine. It is more the for the experience than actually getting anything.
I am an avid hunter here in Canada. Hunt with long guns all the time. No sense in hunting with a long gun in the States – I can do that at home.
This is about taking advantage of a great opportunity which is – thankfully – afforded to me – legally.
Yes, it is sad, I must visit another country to do this, but do that mean I should not take advantage of the opportunity?
Why Open Carry?
Simple. Security.
Again, I will be traveling with my girlfriend. Her well being is my #1 concern.
This may sound odd, but one thing I really remember while being in Afghanistan was this one night while on patrol. I was on the outskirts of some town or other, we had word that the Taliban had infiltrated the area recently. While I was walking in the dark, not knowing what was around the next corner – I can recall the feeling I had with vivid clarity, I was scared – it was the unknown. But then I felt my C7 (Standard issue rifle) and this calm came over me. The fact I knew that if and when something happened – I had full confidence in myself, and my training, that I could defend myself and that of the men with me.
There is no greater right that the right to defend yourself. Unfortunately, my government does not understand this. Thankfully for you – yours does.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
I can understand why some may be upset with armed citizens coming to your country. But, if rest assured. I am doing so legally.
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TOF
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 05:12 am |
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Come on over spartans. If you peruse the AZ G&F site posted earlier you will find all about our seasons. I know there is a rabbit out there just waiting for your 9MM.
We are a country full of opinions if nothing else. Some for some against some good some bad. Just like most other places.
PS: Thank you for your service in our joint venture.
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 05:21 am |
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If you're coming through the Detroit/Windsor route, it will definitely be possible to arrange a Detroit area OC'er meeting (as in coffee, a picnic, lunch, etc.) for you if you want to. It would just have to be timed right.
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Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 06:45 am |
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I appreciate you going into more detail, it did help me to understand..the first post had me going. Also, being prior military myself...I want to thank you for your service.
I understand that you want to protect your girlfriend and yourself, and as stated before I welcome tourists and those who come thru the 'front door' to become citizens as well.
That being said, I personally am not comfortable with this law as it does look like a big loophole for those that could cause harm to American citizens by claiming they just want to hunt. (I am not saying that is your intent). Also, this law and everything associated with it is new to me...I did not know it even existed until today.
It's a tough one for sure. I agree you have the right to defending yourself and others, without any doubt. Then 9/11 happened, and the investigation into everything leading up to it showed us loop holes in our system. I guess the question would be how can you defend yourself and others in another country without carrying a firearm? If I go to Canada, can I carry?
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:01 am |
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Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes?
The "loophole" of 9/11 was one created by government disarming of airplane passengers, not one unfilled by some or other lack of government "security".
Edit: Also, the law doesn't allow them suitcase nukes. It allows them handguns, and rifles. Not much of a "loophole" by terrorist standards.Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:03 am by marshaul
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crisisweasel
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Marana, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:42 am |
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marshaul wrote: Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes?
The "loophole" of 9/11 was one created by government disarming of airplane passengers, not one unfilled by some or other lack of government "security".
Edit: Also, the law doesn't allow them suitcase nukes. It allows them handguns, and rifles. Not much of a "loophole" by terrorist standards.
Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet.
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spartans
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 21st, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 01:18 pm |
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Crossfire Jedi wrote: If I go to Canada, can I carry?
Unfortunetely, no you cannot Open Carry.
As I mentioned, A Canadian citizen cannot even open carry.
A handgun (which our government has said is a 'restricted' firearm) must be kept in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it - and unloaded, in a safe (or locked room, which cannot be easily broken into).
to to transport the pistol, it must be in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it. you can only transport it to and from a approved range.
you cannot drive around with a 'restricted' gun in your car just going from A to B. you must be travelling from your residence to an approved gun range.
My government has been stripping its citizens of their rights for the last 100 years. today 'big black scary guns' and of course handguns, are the sole cause of ALL crime on this planet - from drugs, to B & E , to tax evasion.
Fortunately, there are still a few of us that understand that this is complete BS. and are fighting to change it - but it is an uphill battle to say the least
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 11:02 pm |
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crisisweasel wrote: Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet.
Here ya go: (Tune of Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap AC/DC)
Canucks with Nukes
Who’s that a’lookin’ like an Eskimo
What’s that there in his hand
Can’t be too careful… thought you ought’a know
They’re comin’ in our land - OW!
Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps
Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
I take my pick-up down to Wally World
To buy some Chinese junk…
Then some Canadian parks next to me
He’s got a bomb in his trunk
No place to go
No place to hide
I see ‘em everywhere
I get in line down at the Mickey D’s
They follow me down there… Nooo!
Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
I saw a Mountie walkin’ ‘round the mall
A suitcase nuke in hand
I swear to God they’re gonna kill us all
You gotta understand OW!
When I go home
I’m not alone
They’re hidin’ in my garage
I hear ‘em whisperin’ out there in French
Plotting their espionage OH!
Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets OW!
I put a call in to the FBI
'Told of the plan underway
Tehy told me 'go 'n get a tinfoil hat
'Then to have a Nice Day... Eh?
Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets OW!
Radiation, EMP, Mushroom Clouds... EXPLOSIONS Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggh!
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
BOOM….sssssstttt.
Last edited on Mon Jun 29th, 2009 04:25 pm by Sonora Rebel
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 11:14 pm |
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| lol, that would make a good cartoon.
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