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zx-twitch
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Apr 12th, 2009 |
| Location: | Phoenix |
| Posts: | 58 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:30 am |
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just read this on arizonashooting.com. Glad to see they finally got it right
http://arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=82294&start=20&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:39 am |
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| It's about time.
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reconvic
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 5th, 2009 |
| Location: | Mesa Az., USA |
| Posts: | 174 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:44 am |
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First off the other man was unarmed, was he in fear of his life?
We are all responsible foe every round we shoot in S/D, in this case I do not see where he needed to shoot, Maybe draw and see if the man would have stop in his tracks. With guns comes common sense. The dogs if they were going to attack would have and I would have killed them, not him. Just my own thought what I would have done.
S/F Vic
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zx-twitch
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:13 am |
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seriously read the court case. he fired a warning shot at the dogs. when the other man then ran at him he drew down on him and told him to stop several times. the man did not and he defended him self.
now ask your self if you were alone in the woods with a man who is willing to try to attack an armed man, who also has 3 dogs with him would you try to take on the man and his dogs hand to hand or would you keep the upper hand and defend your self with your firearm? Also the man with the dogs had a violent history(fish did not know this at the time of the shooting)
I can honestly say I would do the same as fish. me against 3 dogs and a fearless attacker. I don't like those odds
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reconvic
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| Joined: | Fri Jun 5th, 2009 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:23 am |
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Well, if it was me I carry 3 forms of S/D . OC ASP spray, which I would have used on the man. The dogs if the actually tried and attack me I would have killed them all. My last form of S/D is a Knife which I can use pretty well. There was a time I would have went hand to hand with him but being my age now no. The above is what I myself would have done truthfully. I have killed enough people in my life and pray I never have to do it again, but I will not be a victim.
S/F Vic
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zx-twitch
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:32 am |
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| If he had it to do over again I am sure he would have carried pepper spray. I recently ordered a a small key chain spray of some very nasty pepper spray(i can't remember the brand). I to have had the misfortune to have to take a few lifes as well(iraq and Afghanistan) and hope I will never have to again. But in the end I will do what ever it take to get home to my girls each night
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reconvic
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| Joined: | Fri Jun 5th, 2009 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:41 am |
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Me; too and a good reply bro. May I recommend you get not pepper spray but OC from Asp if you need to know where to get it PM me?
S/F Vic
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lostone1413
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:46 am |
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reconvic wrote: Well, if it was me I carry 3 forms of S/D . OC ASP spray, which I would have used on the man. The dogs if the actually tried and attack me I would have killed them all. My last form of S/D is a Knife which I can use pretty well. There was a time I would have went hand to hand with him but being my age now no. The above is what I myself would have done truthfully. I have killed enough people in my life and pray I never have to do it again, but I will not be a victim.
S/F Vic
Fish was I believe 50 at the time. The guy charged him knew he had a gun. So I guess your saying fish wasn't justified in shooting when he is 50 and charged by someone who knows he has a gun??
Then you say you can use a knife pretty well If you know anything about sd you know it is 30% more likley you will be killed from a knife attack then being shot
To me Fish was 100% justified I don't know one shooter who would disagree.
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lostone1413
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:50 am |
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zx-twitch wrote: seriously read the court case. he fired a warning shot at the dogs. when the other man then ran at him he drew down on him and told him to stop several times. the man did not and he defended him self.
now ask your self if you were alone in the woods with a man who is willing to try to attack an armed man, who also has 3 dogs with him would you try to take on the man and his dogs hand to hand or would you keep the upper hand and defend your self with your firearm? Also the man with the dogs had a violent history(fish did not know this at the time of the shooting)
I can honestly say I would do the same as fish. me against 3 dogs and a fearless attacker. I don't like those odds I agree 100% Anyone who wouldn't use a gun under the circumstance Fish was under has no business even carrying a gun. The ones who convicted him what would you want to bet most come from CA and were anti gun and anti self defense in the first place. Not the AZ of Goldwater are we
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reconvic
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 5th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 174 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:03 am |
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lostone1413 wrote:
reconvic wrote: Well, if it was me I carry 3 forms of S/D . OC ASP spray, which I would have used on the man. The dogs if the actually tried and attack me I would have killed them all. My last form of S/D is a Knife which I can use pretty well. There was a time I would have went hand to hand with him but being my age now no. The above is what I myself would have done truthfully. I have killed enough people in my life and pray I never have to do it again, but I will not be a victim.
S/F Vic
Fish was I believe 50 at the time. The guy charged him knew he had a gun. So I guess your saying fish wasn't justified in shooting when he is 50 and charged by someone who knows he has a gun??
Then you say you can use a knife pretty well If you know anything about sd you know it is 30% more likley you will be killed from a knife attack then being shot
To me Fish was 100% justified I don't know one shooter who would disagree.
Well, you are allowed your opinion and do what you feel is right I am almost 60 year of age and I told you what I would do. I had my knife wet way more then once for your information. And if you read my post I would have used OC. So I will leave it at that, Enuff said.
S/F. Vic
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:09 am |
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Just a little point that is often overlooked or left unsaid.
If the bad guy charges the good guy holding a gun, the bad guy is about to come into possession of a gun. Don't matter whether he picks a gun up off a table nearby, picks a gun up off the floor, or takes it right out of the good guy's hands. The bad guy then has a gun.
And, if the gun is then taken from the good guy's hand, the good guy ain't got a gun anymore with which to defend himself against the now-armed bad guy.
If all the other elements of justified lethal force are present--jeopardy, opportunity, etc--then I think most self-defense experts will say the good guy is justified in shooting.
Also, Massad Ayoob points out in his video, Judicious Use of Deadly Force, (paraphrase) that if the bad guy thinks he has the skill to take the gun away from you, you are justified in assuming he knows his business. For example, maybe he has some training at disarming people.
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Mahan0331
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:21 pm |
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reconvic wrote: lostone1413 wrote:
Fish was I believe 50 at the time. The guy charged him knew he had a gun. So I guess your saying fish wasn't justified in shooting when he is 50 and charged by someone who knows he has a gun??
Then you say you can use a knife pretty well If you know anything about sd you know it is 30% more likely you will be killed from a knife attack then being shot
To me Fish was 100% justified I don't know one shooter who would disagree.
Well, you are allowed your opinion and do what you feel is right I am almost 60 year of age and I told you what I would do. I had my knife wet way more then once for your information. And if you read my post I would have used OC. So I will leave it at that, Enuff said.
S/F. Vic
I tip my hat to you reconvic,
I only know one guy who used his bayonet, it wasn't his first but its defiantly the one that has stayed w/ him....
Do I think Fish was 100% Justified? - eeh, No
...deadly force is that force in which a reasonable or prudent person may consider likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Deadly force is used as a last resort when all other means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed. (had to memorize this back in '03 before we were Allowed to engage the enemy)
Would I do the same thing? - Probably,
...but then agian thats only because Ive spent too long "over there" and lost too many friends to put up w/ bull@#$%.
Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:24 pm by Mahan0331
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