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RJ
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 04:17 pm |
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E mailing and calling and talking to Westcor is like Obama telling you the health care program will be a success and be free.
Believe what you want, they've been against any weapons for years, and along with their other holdings in other states.
I worked indirectly for Westcor building centers and they had in their contracts employees of contractors, etc, were not allowed to be armed.
Not saying its right, but it is not gonna change them with a few emails.
Most of teh investors are from anti states anyway, and the $$$ dictate who, what and how things run.
Good luck with it, expect a canned response if any at all.
rj
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DMGNUT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 6th, 2009 |
| Location: | Chandler, AZ |
| Posts: | 48 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 08:14 am |
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I agree that letters and emails will most likely be ineffective, but sometimes I just want to vent a little. Here's my letter and I'll let everyone know if I get a response...
“Our Westcor Code of Conduct, posted at various areas of our centers in Arizona, prohibits firearms and other weapons, in the common areas of our centers. The signage that simply prohibits weapons is posted on the lower portions of our common area entrances to the mall. While somewhat nondescript, the signage satisfies State requirements. Please understand we have this policy in place to ensure the safety and security of everyone who visit our centers and our intention is not to limit any individual rights.
Thank you for your feedback on our policy and please feel free to contact me personally should you have any further questions or concerns.”
William Harrell | Assistant Vice President for Security and Guest Services
Dear Mr. Harrell,
I read your above response to a concerned Second Amendment supporter (which by-the-way, has been posted on several local and national gun enthusiast sites).
I have a few questions.
You stated in your letter, “Please understand we have this policy in place to ensure the safety and security of everyone who visit our centers?”
Are you for real? How ignorant do you think people are? You can insure our safety with unarmed rent-a-cops, while forbidding law-abiding citizens from being armed, and yet knowing full well, the criminal element will ignore your silly signs, and bring in whatever weapons they wish?
You also include (and I must assume its a joke), “…our intention is not to limit any individual rights.” (The bold type is directly from your own letter.)
Speaking out of both sides of your mouth (at the same time), is an art form you have apparently mastered. Well done. I would submit to you however, that it is exactly your intention, to not only limit, but trample my Second Amendment Rights, by asking me (as a free and law-abiding citizen) not to be armed, when, and where, I wish, anywhere within these United States.
In this day and age of ever increasing economic woes, and with the extreme probability of drastically reduced holiday season earnings, I wish your organization the very best of luck with your short sighted liberal minded endeavors.
My wife and I are both (very) gainfully employed, and will be shopping for our children’s Christmas gifts as usual… but not at any of your Westcor “centers”.
Please have an enjoyable and happy holiday season,
Gregg xxxxxx
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Kildars
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 08:49 am |
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Emails do no harm, they can only help. If they got enough letters/emails/calls they may reconsider. I plan to do all my shopping at non-westcor property. I may only be spending a $1000 or so this year, but it won't be at the Chandler Fashion Center or any WestCor property.
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Kildars
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 08:52 am |
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My Response:
Mr Harrel:
Thank you for your response. I am saddened to hear that you choose to limit a civil right we as Americans enjoy in the name of safety and security. How do you expect to provide safety and security to your patrons when you choose to prevent legal carry on your property while doing nothing to ensure criminals, who will ignore your signs, do not carry on your property. I feel you are limited an individual right, and while it is your right to do that as a property owner, I also feel you should know that many people (including myself) will no longer patronize any of your WestCor property if we can avoid it. There are forums dedicated to pointing out pro-gun and anti-gun businesses.
I would like to point out that most shootings & slaughters happen in gun free zones such as schools and malls. A quick google search shows the vast amount of mall shootings. http://www.google.com/#q=mall+shootings&hl=en&sa=2&fp=1db3655b1bbc91d8. There are also many studies showing that legal owners of firearms are less likely to commit a crime than people who are not licensed. I do not believe there is a single incident of a legally carried firearm shooting in a mall unless it was in self defense.
Please let me know what you think
Last edited on Sun Sep 13th, 2009 08:52 am by Kildars
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Slayer of Paper
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 17th, 2009 10:50 pm |
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How about:
"Since you will not allow me to carry a firearm to defend myself, may I assume then that you and your company will take full responsibility for my safety, and the safety of everyone who frequents your establishment?"
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Kildars
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 02:55 am |
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No response from them.
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 01:40 am |
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You know, if you could get everyone who reads this forum to send a reply, that MIGHT have some impact. It would at least let them know that word is out, and a lot of people are not happy
Last edited on Sun Sep 20th, 2009 01:58 am by Big Gay Al
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McX
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 01:50 am |
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| I suspect you had problems as your holster wasn't fashionably favorable. Perhapse if it had some glittering sequins. God help us if the HollyWood crowd ever goes Open Carry; there he is going into the academy awards, wearing his Gucci holster....................and so on. Just my truly worthless two cents here. Hope someone smiled.
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wardog911
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 6th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 11:39 pm |
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In the resent passage of sb1113 a lot of businesses have posted no weapons signs.
So i have decided to give out business cards. like this.
Attachment: notice of liability card.doc (Downloaded 79 times) Last edited on Tue Oct 6th, 2009 11:40 pm by wardog911
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 09:47 pm |
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wardog911 wrote: In the resent passage of sb1113 a lot of businesses have posted no weapons signs.
So i have decided to give out business cards. like this.
Could use spell/grammar/redundancy/paragraph break check.
Due to this establishment's display of the
NO “weapons”, “guns” or “firearms” ALLOWED sign...
this establishment assumes liability for the security of all persons on its premises.
This establishment has denied the right of law-abiding citizens to protect themselves in the event of criminal attack, statistically far more likely when such citizens are denied this right. As long as the sign is displayed, this establishment assumes strict liability (ha) for failing to provide for the security of persons who are criminally victimized on its premises.
This establishment also assumes liability to replace or reimburse the citizen for his/her weapon in the event it is stolen from the citizen's vehicle, unless a gun check option is made available, or the “no weapons” policy is waived in writing on an individual basis. However, a gun check option does not waive liability of the establishment to provide security for all persons on its premises.
Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 09:48 pm by N6ATF
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SpringerXDacp
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 01:12 pm |
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McX wrote: I suspect you had problems as your holster wasn't fashionably favorable. Perhapse if it had some glittering sequins. God help us if the HollyWood crowd ever goes Open Carry; there he is going into the academy awards, wearing his Gucci holster....................and so on. Just my truly worthless two cents here. Hope someone smiled.
Oh, and don't forget the "Valspeak."
Examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwO08g4vebg&feature=related LMAO
Last edited on Sun Oct 11th, 2009 01:30 pm by SpringerXDacp
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wardog911
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 6th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 06:43 am |
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Thank you for your input I will add it to the possible up dates to this card.
I still encourage any one who want to to copy it and start handing them out.
Thank you again.
Last edited on Tue Oct 13th, 2009 06:43 am by wardog911
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Kildars
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 11:02 am |
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I don't believe your cards are legally correct though..
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Kildars
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 11:02 am |
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McX wrote: I suspect you had problems as your holster wasn't fashionably favorable. Perhapse if it had some glittering sequins. God help us if the HollyWood crowd ever goes Open Carry; there he is going into the academy awards, wearing his Gucci holster....................and so on. Just my truly worthless two cents here. Hope someone smiled.
I smiled. LOL.
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yelohamr
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 05:15 pm |
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| I OC in California all the time. I don't go to malls anymore, because I can shop online armed and in my underwear.
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Riana
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 05:36 pm |
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yelohamr wrote: I OC in California all the time. I don't go to malls anymore, because I can shop online armed and in my underwear.
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:02 pm |
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I quit going to malls long ago. Overpriced, limited selection, surrounded by walking petri dishes and often enough... risky. Not counting the fact that any mall is far distant from my desert abode. I shop for everything but groceries on-line, altho I seldom do that in my underwear. (I'm normally armed tho)
California really is... uh, different. 
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Crossfire Jedi
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 09:56 pm |
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| I am in the same boat...I don't go to the malls much at all...mainly online shopping. If I was going to the mall, it would be on me regardless of some sign that is supposedly hanging on he door in small print. These guys will never learn that the bad guys will always carry, regardless of signs...they should be more open to allow the good guys in as well (although I am carrying regardless)...sorry, I know it's a law, but what they don't know.....
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