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mhemu
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tempe, USA |
| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:33 am |
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While I respect your opinion on the matter, I have no desire to be the new test case. IANAL nor do I have the means to defend myself in such a legal matter. There was a court case that reversed the decision regarding the school zones, but then congress in it's infinite wisdom changed the laws and we now have this: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf which apparently removes the "loop hole" that enabled the defendant, Lopez in US vs Lopez ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez ), to "walk".
I do agree that it's BS and unconstitutional, at this early stage in my gun ownership, I'll let someone, you perhaps, test the waters for me before I myself follow suit.
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GWbiker
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| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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Harley Davidson of Chandler is posted "No firearms". Many small tourist trinket stores in Tombstone are posted "No firearms"....or words to that effect.
In addition. according to Arizona law, if a store owner asks you to NOT bring inside your weapon, you must abide to his/her request or face a charge of tresspassing. A stupid law of course, and one put in place by an activist judge some years ago. Something to do with property owners rights!!
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protector84
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| Joined: | Sat Oct 6th, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:24 am |
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There are two test cases to consider. One is being charged with violating a gun law. The other is being attacked by a criminal. I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. You have to ask yourself which is more important: your life or some stupid law. The reason I don't worry about this particular law is because it is a federal law and not a state law. The state has specifically allowed firearms on school grounds as long as they are unloaded, left in the vehicle, and out of sight. This is basic state's rights which supercede federal law. It is also worth considering that the law is open to interpretation. Say you are a teacher at a high school and illegally conceal carry a gun on you while you are teaching class. This is only a misdemeanor in Arizona but would probably cause you to lose your job if the school board found out. Now imagine some kid walked in with about 500 rounds of ammo and started shooting. You pull out your illegally carried gun and kill the school shooter saving dozens of lives. While you broke the law, there is unlikely a jury on this earth that would convict you. If you even had to appear in court, every media outlet from the nation would be outside the courthouse doors and there would probably be demonstrations.
Nobody wants to be a test case but you have to set your priorities straight. I would rather be in possession of a life-saving tool whether legal or not and risk the consequences of the legal system than read about my loved ones in the newspaper. It is also worth mentioning that both the state constitution and the federal constitution protect the right of the people to bear arms. Any other law on the books is in and of itself illegal. Carrying a gun legally or even owning one legally for that matter is risking the consequences of the legal system because if you ever end up using it, you are going to have a lot of explaining to do.
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mhemu
Member
| Joined: | Sun Apr 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tempe, USA |
| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 04:19 am |
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Protector, I agree with the points you make, I'm just not prepared to be the martyr to prove them.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Few more places I went to yesterday. All of the below places are at Tempe Marketplace shopping center in tempe on Rio Salado & McClintock:
Best Buy
Sports Chalet
Cheeseburger Cheeseburger
Levi's Store
Oc'd in all those locations, none of which had a problem. Again, some of the patrons gave me dirty looks (probably something to do with the fact that I look young and currently have a mohawk).
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Count
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| Joined: | Fri Mar 9th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 144 |
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 10:08 pm |
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| The federal law was first struck down by the Supremes saying that it is a state matter. Dear Congres with a bunch of gutless Republicans (pretty much all of them), came back and added a sentence to the same law saying that if the gun was used or sold in interstate commerce the prohibition applies. They were trying to use the widely misused interstate commerce clause to regulate something to appease the NEA. This new law (1995 or so) is still valid. But state will not enforce federal laws.... (see immigration.....)
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GWbiker
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| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 01:09 am |
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A couple of days ago, I saw a fellow OC in Beyond Bread, a trendy sitdown sandwich/pastry/coffee shop on Campbell in Tucson.
Nobody raised a fuss, the Police/Sheriff's/FBI/ATF were not summoned, the store didn't go into lock down and no children appeared to be traumatized by the sight of a gun.
I like living in Arizona. 
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400HP
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| Joined: | Fri Apr 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | Arizona |
| Posts: | 47 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 04:48 am |
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GWbiker wrote: A couple of days ago, I saw a fellow OC in Beyond Bread, a trendy sitdown sandwich/pastry/coffee shop on Campbell in Tucson.
Was this fellow with his wife?
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GWbiker
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| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:15 pm |
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| He was with two other people, one was a woman.
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curtm1911
Member
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 10:15 am |
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Basha's store @ McDonald & Granite Reef not posted and I CC there
Basha's store @ Indian School & Hayden posted, maybe because of a Chase Bank on premises, I CC there anyway, but I only go there to do banking. Read sign the other day,makes exception for CWP holders, maybe I will OC next time I go there
Safeway stores; I have never seen a sign at them
Also, Remember the Safe Storage Law, if they post, they must provide secure storage and immediate retreival, I know the Maricopa County Courthouse has storage, my last trip for jury duty I carried and they stored while I was there, you just have to show the on-duty detective your CWP with your ID and he will take you out of the cattle line and you put your firearm in a locker and they give you a claim ticket to retreive your firearm when you leave.
Last edited on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 02:35 am by curtm1911
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r6-rider
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 17th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 30 |
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 07:13 pm |
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While walking into "bear arms" in scottsdale, i noticed a sign that said "Unload all firearms before entering" does that mean no LOADED open carry?
Last edited on Wed May 14th, 2008 07:14 pm by r6-rider
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curtm1911
Member
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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| I belive so, so I just cover up or unload. I know the owner and most of the people working there, so they know I am a good guy, but it is posted, I have never had an issue there though.
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Jared
Member
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 09:41 pm |
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GWbiker wrote: Harley Davidson of Chandler is posted "No firearms". Many small tourist trinket stores in Tombstone are posted "No firearms"....or words to that effect.
In addition. according to Arizona law, if a store owner asks you to NOT bring inside your weapon, you must abide to his/her request or face a charge of tresspassing. A stupid law of course, and one put in place by an activist judge some years ago. Something to do with property owners rights!!
This needs to be revisited by the legislature, it is wrong and FINALLY people are starting to see this with the creation of "parking lot bills". Corporations do not have rights, they are entities that are created at the discretion of state governments. Secondly, even "mom and pop" establishments and chains do not seem to have rights. The state imposes numerous restrictions on their buildings, their hours etc. size of their parking lots, how many handicapped spaces they have, and Arizona due to prop 201 in 2006, bans smoking in all public establishments.
So why all of a sudden, when it comes to firearms or other defensive weapons, it's a private property issue, if this is a private property issue, then so is everything else I mentioned above.
Arizona (AKA, east Riverside County, California) is an ok state for the RKBA, but it's really not as good as people think it is. Virginia is much better, yes I've open carried in Arlington County, Fairfax County, and Alexandria County, no one cared... not even the busybodies, I've only had one negative reaction and that was due to a manager in a restaurant in Reston, none of the customers cared but she did, I wasn't even asked to leave, I even offered to, I was just asked not to come back again with a firearm.... so I stayed at the bar area for 3 more hours and socialized with other patrons, then I left... and I have not been back since, with or without a firearm.
Last edited on Wed May 14th, 2008 09:44 pm by Jared
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mhemu
Member
| Joined: | Sun Apr 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tempe, USA |
| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 05:27 pm |
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Well, as I was leaving Tempe Market place the other evening with OC'ing, I was asked by a security guard to not come armed again as no firearms are allowed. News to me as it's not posted anywhere on the grounds and I've passed numerous LEO's there without incident (one saw me literally 30 seconds before the security approached me without a problem).
I question the validity of the statement made by the security guard as he seemed nervous while talking with me and was unclear of arizona gun laws (he asked if I had my permit with me for the firearm and to carry the firearm). As such, I'm going to be getting in touch with the tempe marketplace people and verify for the future.
So, as of now, if anyone wants to OC there, prepare to get hassled by security but not by LEOs.
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jjsoonerfan
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 13th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 01:04 am |
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Now that I got my Arizona CCW permit I hardly open carry anymore. Not that I didn't like to OC and never, repeat (NEVER) had a problem doing it, I just like being un-noticed now. I am still finding new places to open carry and the list is too large to post right now.
JJ...
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SickTag
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 09:13 am |
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If it is a corperation and one store allows OCing, then all do because of corperate policies, like all Mc Donalds, Taco Bells, KFCs, etc... will let you OC as long as it is legal in the state. Found this out through research. If you are asked to leave, it has to be from a manager, and if they ask, ask them if it is corperate policy. Leave either which way, but a lot of managers have been fired because they discriminated against customers because of a personal bias. such a situation happened here at a IHOP and is on the NM forum. I made a list of places, which would carry over to AZ because a lot of the places were like Burger King (you can carry there too) etc... Most store will let you OC there. Keep an eye out for those no weapon stickers, like you see at hospitals.
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uberingram
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| Joined: | Fri Jun 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Chandler, USA |
| Posts: | 10 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 28th, 2008 06:34 pm |
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I didn't have an issue at the Albertson's on McClintock and Ray. No sign's posted either.
Last edited on Sat Jun 28th, 2008 06:35 pm by uberingram
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dreamcro
Activist Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 30th, 2008 01:22 am |
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GWbiker wrote:
Harley Davidson of Chandler is posted "No firearms".
oops! I was just in there today buying some tinted goggles for riding. Had my Sig p226 on, had no idea and no one said anything.
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GWbiker
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 30th, 2008 01:29 am |
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dreamcro wrote:
GWbiker wrote:
Harley Davidson of Chandler is posted "No firearms".
oops! I was just in there today buying some tinted goggles for riding. Had my Sig p226 on, had no idea and no one said anything.
Yep, there's a little sign next to front door, on the left. Unless that sign has been removed!! 
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like_the_roman
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| Joined: | Thu Jan 17th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 135 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 30th, 2008 02:16 am |
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| OC'd at Bookman's on Wilmot/Speedway (next to Beyond Bread) for about 2 hours - no problems.
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Dahwg
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 191 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 12:41 am |
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like_the_roman wrote: OC'd at Bookman's on Wilmot/Speedway (next to Beyond Bread) for about 2 hours - no problems.
HAHAHA That just goes to prove how acceptible it is to OC in AZ. Bookmans is a very popular haunt of Tucson libs. 
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