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Armed4Life
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 02:46 pm |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
Steam comes out my ears everytime I watch this.
Do the rest of you feel the same way?
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Lysander
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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Armed4Life wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
Steam comes out my ears everytime I watch this.
Do the rest of you feel the same way? Yes, but probably not for the same reason.
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
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MITCH
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| Joined: | Fri Aug 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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Armed4Life wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
Steam comes out my ears everytime I watch this.
Do the rest of you feel the same way? I'm not sure what, about the clip, disturbs you. The check point or the response of the person in the back seat?
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papasmee
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| Joined: | Mon Sep 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 08:17 pm |
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okay - by the numbers -
1. the kid was/is a total d**k-head. being a real a##hole and totally wasting everyone's time.
2. he was asked a simple, lawful [ it is not up to him to determine the legallity of the question]question 2-3 times and refused to answer
3. bet he wouln't try that in any country souoth of the border. he would have ended up in cuffs so fast he would have pissed himself.
4. the border agents were being far more patient to him and his friends than they needed to be.
5. the jerkweed probably couldn't wait to get home to post this to youtube - and certainly wouldn't have pulled this without a camera.
6. did this little sh%t object to everyone being stopped or only them? it is TOTALLY fair if everyone is stopped BRIEFLY and all are asked the same question. They do the same thing at DUI checkpoints etc. Is he for open borders or just special treatment for himself?
7. a MARINE?? i'd sure like some proof of that. didn't look old enough to drink - much less having done a tour as a Marine. BTW, what was that band around the wrist of the driver. looks like something you'd get at a bar to prove you were old enough to drink. had he been drinking? just a question.
Anyway - sure would like to know how this ended up. Maybe an overnight stay or a long walk home would teach this little p.o.s a lesson.
papasmee
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Wynder
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Jul 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | Bear, Delaware USA |
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 08:36 pm |
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papasmee wrote: 3. bet he wouln't try that in any country souoth of the border. he would have ended up in cuffs so fast he would have pissed himself.
A lot of countries south of the border don't have a Bill of Rights. We do.
6. did this little sh%t object to everyone being stopped or only them? it is TOTALLY fair if everyone is stopped BRIEFLY and all are asked the same question. They do the same thing at DUI checkpoints etc. Is he for open borders or just special treatment for himself?
There are specific criterium for DUI checkpoints and, while the current Supreme Court rulings are in favor of indiscriminately detaining US citizens for no reason, the topic will always be hotly discussed until the interpretation changes.
7. a MARINE?? i'd sure like some proof of that. didn't look old enough to drink - much less having done a tour as a Marine. BTW, what was that band around the wrist of the driver. looks like something you'd get at a bar to prove you were old enough to drink. had he been drinking? just a question.
He certainly was old enough to know and understand concepts of the Constitution that are currently under contention. That shows individuality, a will to be free and the fortitude to assert it.
Bear in mind that these guys didn't get pulled over for doing something wrong -- there was no probably cause or, hell, even reasonable suspicion to pull them over. Simply because a policy is applied evenly doesn't make it right. If the policy was made for everyone to stop, be searched, and sign an affidavit stating their loyalty to the United States, would you find that fair?
It's going to the extreme, but it illustrates a falacy in your argument.
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MITCH
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 08:55 pm |
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100% agree
Mitch
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MITCH
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 08:57 pm |
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Sorry about that. I was in agreement with Papasmee
Mitch
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mark edward marchiafava
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:04 pm |
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I have no fear of the muslims, the North Koreans, the Russians, the Chinese. What I DO fear are Amerikans who have NO respect for the rule of law. Internal citizenship checkpoints? Are you guys nuts? If this can be done here at home, it's game over.
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:12 pm |
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Armed4Life wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
Steam comes out my ears everytime I watch this.
Do the rest of you feel the same way?
I agree. What do these police checkpoints accomplish? I wish more people had the guts to do what this person did and refuse to go along.
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Lysander
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:13 pm |
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mark edward marchiafava wrote: I have no fear of the muslims, the North Koreans, the Russians, the Chinese. What I DO fear are Amerikans who have NO respect for the rule of law. Internal citizenship checkpoints? Are you guys nuts? If this can be done here at home, it's game over.
This does not appear to be an "internal" checkpoint that would inhibit state-to-state travel (or even non-border zone intrastate travel), but checkpoints set back from the border while still near the border, and focused on "from the border" traffic.
If this type of staggered system isn't liked, what should replace it (other than Open Borders/Reconquista)?
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:17 pm |
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Lysander wrote:
If this type of staggered system isn't liked, what should replace it (other than Open Borders/Reconquista)?
Are those the only options, open borders or internal checkpoints? What does this check point do? If the government actually wanted to catch illegal aliens, why not just stop them from working, by actually punishing employers that hire them, instead of doing checkpoints inside of the United States that do nothing except harass people?
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Lysander
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:25 pm |
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mkl wrote: Lysander wrote:
If this type of staggered system isn't liked, what should replace it (other than Open Borders/Reconquista)?
Are those the only options, open borders or internal checkpoints? What does this check point do? If the government actually wanted to catch illegal aliens, why not just stop them from working, by actually punishing employers that hire them, instead of doing checkpoints inside of the United States that do nothing except harass people? No: "what should replace it?"
The "other than" was a limiter, not hyperbole.
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:28 pm |
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Lysander wrote:
mkl wrote: Lysander wrote:
If this type of staggered system isn't liked, what should replace it (other than Open Borders/Reconquista)?
Are those the only options, open borders or internal checkpoints? What does this check point do? If the government actually wanted to catch illegal aliens, why not just stop them from working, by actually punishing employers that hire them, instead of doing checkpoints inside of the United States that do nothing except harass people? No: "what should replace it?"
The "other than" was a limiter, not hyperbole.
Ok, then we replace it with nothing.
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Lysander
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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mkl wrote: Lysander wrote:
mkl wrote: Lysander wrote:
If this type of staggered system isn't liked, what should replace it (other than Open Borders/Reconquista)?
Are those the only options, open borders or internal checkpoints? What does this check point do? If the government actually wanted to catch illegal aliens, why not just stop them from working, by actually punishing employers that hire them, instead of doing checkpoints inside of the United States that do nothing except harass people? No: "what should replace it?"
The "other than" was a limiter, not hyperbole.
Ok, then we replace it with nothing. And for border control, we should do...?
You're removing one piece of the puzzle; scrapping the "defence in depth" approach. What, as a whole, should we do regarding border control/border security?
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:38 pm |
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"And for border control, we should do...?"
Have agents protecting the actual border instead of 40-100 miles inside of it?
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Sa45auto
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:49 pm |
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mkl wrote:
.....Ok, then we replace it with nothing.
This would only make things worse.
You don't like the check points?
How about guard towers every hundred feet with machine guns and orders to shoot anything that moves.  Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:50 pm by Sa45auto
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:53 pm |
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Sa45auto wrote:
mkl wrote:
.....Ok, then we replace it with nothing.
This would only make things worse.
You don't like the check poinys?
How about guard towers every hundred feet with machine guns and orders to shoot anything that moves.
To be clear I am not suggesting replacing actual border patrol with nothing. I am suggesting replacing these internal checkpoints that happen 50-100 miles inside of the border with nothing. On the border itself, go crazy. Landmines and body heat seeking missiles. Knock yourself out.
As a citizen, I feel I should not be stopped and questioned within the United States without any suspicion at all. I am not arguing if these checkpoints are legal or not, I am stating that I do not think it is right.
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GJD
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 10:18 pm |
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| That checkpoint is absolute bull@#$%. 100% Un-Constitutional.
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Lysander
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 10:43 pm |
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mkl wrote: Sa45auto wrote:
mkl wrote:
.....Ok, then we replace it with nothing.
This would only make things worse.
You don't like the check poinys?
How about guard towers every hundred feet with machine guns and orders to shoot anything that moves.
To be clear I am not suggesting replacing actual border patrol with nothing. I am suggesting replacing these internal checkpoints that happen 50-100 miles inside of the border with nothing. On the border itself, go crazy. Landmines and body heat seeking missiles. Knock yourself out.
As a citizen, I feel I should not be stopped and questioned within the United States without any suspicion at all. I am not arguing if these checkpoints are legal or not, I am stating that I do not think it is right. Basically, it sounds like we need to find a an acceptable definition of what the "border zone" is. Depending on the terrain, 40 miles in may or may not be acceptably within the zone. Some places it might be a mile or less, others 15-25 miles out.
Part of hte problem the checkpoints are an effort to solve is the 'obstacle course' mentality. Once you get past the first layer, should that be it, or should there be random positions just off the borders to catch what the first (or second?) layer misses.
As a "last layer" I agree - cut off the jobs. Do actual enforcement of I-9 verification and requirements.
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
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mkl
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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"Basically, it sounds like we need to find a an acceptable definition of what the "border zone" is. Depending on the terrain, 40 miles in may or may not be acceptably within the zone. Some places it might be a mile or less, others 15-25 miles out. "
To me the "border zone" is the border. You get to guard the border. If you have reasonable suspicion inside the US border, by all means check it out anywhere in the entire United States.
However, you only get a free pass to check everyone at the border. After that you need some reasonable suspicion.
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