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ConditionThree
Activist Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 20th, 2009 09:12 pm |
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It seems interest in exposed carry has been picking up, and since the Nordyke ruling has come down in favor of incorporating the 2nd, I’m sure many will perceive this as the starting bell for much more open carry activity. But in reviewing some of the more recent posts of first time experiences, it seems that some of the suggestions that some of the veteran members her have dispensed is not reaching our enthusiastic first timers.
With that in mind, the following list is intended to lay the ground rules to successful open carrying in the state of California.
1) Be familiar with and obey the law. You will need a working knowledge of the applicable penal codes, Federal laws, as well as county and local ordinances. Your knowledge should be deep enough that you can cogently explain the law to anyone you might encounter.
2) Treat everyone with courtesy. You may think your only purpose to carry a firearm to defend yourself or exercise your right to keep and bear arms, but you are also an ambassador for the second amendment and how you are perceived directly affects how gun owners are viewed. Smile, make eye contact, say hello. Take time to answer questions. Be friendly. Diffuse irrational fear.
3) Be properly equipped.
A) You should have a belt holster that fits the weapon you are carrying with a minimum of level-one retention. More retention is better. It has been suggested and I think I’d agree, it would be wise to carry in a drop leg or thigh holster- not because it is ‘tacticool’ but because it would reduce the possibility of being accused of a 12025 violation.
B) You should have a digital voice recorder with sufficient recording time to remain on continuously while you are in public.
C) You should have a secure, fully enclosed locking case for your firearm. You will need this to comply with certain no weapons areas exemptions.
D) You should have some pamphlet or memo detailing the legalities of open carry so you can hand them out to interested parties.
E) You should have committed to memory a phone number of an attorney in case you are arrested.
4) Bring friendly witnesses. In addition to having a running audio recorder you should be accompanied by other open carriers or supportive friends in the event you have a police encounter. An audio recorder is a blind witness, only recording sound and does not capture things like attitude or demeanor or intent. It has been evidenced in prior events that police appear less inclined to conduct a loaded check on open carriers in groups or three or more.
5) If you should have a police encounter, comply with police and refer once again to #2.
6) Do not carry a map detailing where all the school zones are located. This will not help you in the event you are stopped by police no matter where you are.
7) You should have $5,000 to $10,000 for a legal defense in the event you are arrested and charged.
8) Do not be in a rush to post your police encounter on a public forum for everyone to read. In many cases, divulging certain details are first, not necessary and second, could give police a reason to revisit the event, as they do read these forums. Sharing your encounter is beneficial for other activists, but you do have a 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself.
If anyone can think of any other requisites to sucessful open carry, PM me and I will amend the list.
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Cougar125
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 20th, 2009 09:17 pm |
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Good advice.
I haven't UOC here in CA yet just because everytime I want to go shoot I have to make phone calls to set up appointments to retrieve my guns, I don't have $$$ coming out my a55 to get a lawyer, and meeting up with others takes time and planning.
I miss WA already.
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rpyne
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 580 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 02:58 am |
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I would add one other item. Watch this video, several times, and commit its advise to memory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=player_embedded
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bad_ace
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 06:08 am |
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| Great write up. I can attest to #8, I made that rookie mistake recently.
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poothrowingape
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 08:12 pm |
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ConditionThree wrote:
4) It has been evidenced in prior events that police appear less inclined to conduct a loaded check on open carriers in groups or three or more.
6) Do not carry a map detailing where all the school zones are located. This will not help you in the event you are stopped by police no matter where you are.
4. doesnt mean u should LOC in incorporated areas. I know its common sense but im sure a newbie might take that wrong. Just as C3 stated abiding the law is a must.
6. i can imagine the stories the press could fabricate about a crazy 2A supporter OCing with a map of all the local schools.
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Offline
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 12:39 pm |
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| btt
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Theseus
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 07:38 am |
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Another importaint thing. . .
In connection with having a voice recorder you should also have the connections, skill and programs to transfer your recordings to your computer as quickly as possible after an encounter.
There was a time I lost an interaction because the batteries died before I could transfer the recording. Luckily I had backup video.
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ConditionThree
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 06:38 pm |
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Theseus wrote: Another importaint thing. . .
In connection with having a voice recorder you should also have the connections, skill and programs to transfer your recordings to your computer as quickly as possible after an encounter.
There was a time I lost an interaction because the batteries died before I could transfer the recording. Luckily I had backup video.
Actually I think what your're getting at is that you should select a recorder that does not rely on volatile memory- ie: forgets when you turn off the power. My Sony recorder will save audio clips even if the batteries are taken out and replaced or the unit is turned off.
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 10:19 pm |
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btt
artwork by oleg volk:
Attached Image (viewed 623 times):
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ConditionThree
Activist Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 03:28 pm |
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| BTT
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:23 am |
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ConditionThree wrote: BTT
btt is right
artwork by oleg volk:
Attached Image (viewed 511 times):
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 09:21 pm |
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| btt
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:28 pm |
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i will be purchasing another magazine this one will remain unloaded but in my weapon. That still is considered an unloaded weapon correct?? I just keep getting a crap load of dirt in my mag well
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nukechaser
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 10:12 pm |
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I believe the salient point is that there isn't ammo "placed into a position from which it can be fired" if you have an empty magazine inserted into the magazine well.
However, make sure your full magazine is plainly visible. This is accomplished usually in a magazine carrier/pouch on your belt, just like your pistol. THIS IS IMPORTANT! A magazine is an integral part of a pistol. Carrying it with ammo in it in your pocket could potentially bring a concealed weapons violation (p.c. 12025).
If you are carrying a revolver you may carry speed loaders, bullets, etc. in your pocket without concern, 'cuz a speed loaded or moon clips are not an integral part of a revolver.
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:08 pm |
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WAIT A minute are you saying that just cuz i have a semiauto i cant have loose ammo in my pocket not in a mag??
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bigtoe416
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:42 pm |
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stuckinchico wrote: WAIT A minute are you saying that just cuz i have a semiauto i cant have loose ammo in my pocket not in a mag??
You can have loose ammo in your pocket, or you can have your magazine in a belt magazine holster, or you can glue your magazine to a baseball hat and wear it. You can't have the magazine concealed.
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:43 pm |
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how bout an empty mag can it be in your pocket?
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:46 pm |
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Cougar125 wrote: Good advice.
I haven't UOC here in CA yet just because everytime I want to go shoot I have to make phone calls to set up appointments to retrieve my guns, I don't have $$$ coming out my a55 to get a lawyer, and meeting up with others takes time and planning.
I miss WA already.
WHERE are your guns??? why dont you have them??
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bigtoe416
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:53 pm |
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stuckinchico wrote: how bout an empty mag can it be in your pocket?
I actually don't know the answer to this. Part of me wants to avoid the question altogether and ask why one would want to carry an empty mag. My guess though is that even an empty mag concealed could still be construed as being a concealed weapon.
The case law here is People v. Hale (http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CCA%5CCA3%5C1974%5C19741120_0040106.CA.htm/qx)
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 09:34 pm |
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bigtoe416 wrote: stuckinchico wrote: how bout an empty mag can it be in your pocket?
I actually don't know the answer to this. Part of me wants to avoid the question altogether and ask why one would want to carry an empty mag. My guess though is that even an empty mag concealed could still be construed as being a concealed weapon.
The case law here is People v. Hale (http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CCA%5CCA3%5C1974%5C19741120_0040106.CA.htm/qx)
In Hale, the court's logic was that a concealed full magazine (mags can not be "loaded" in the legal sense) made the firearm readily useable. I don't see any reason an empty magazine would make the firearm more readily useable, so Hale should not apply.
However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a DA were to prosecute anyhow. When it comes to persecuting gun owners, it seems they like to just throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. IMO, it's not worth being a test case - keep your mags exposed or locked up.
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