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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 02:10 am |
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It this point Im ready just to carry concealed illegally Worry about it when and if it comes to it
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ConditionThree
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 03:14 am |
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stuckinchico wrote: It this point Im ready just to carry concealed illegally Worry about it when and if it comes to it
Two bad ideas.
1) Contemplating doing something that is illegal.
2) Posting that intent on a public internet board.
I think at this point you still have some options that you should keep an open mind about.
1) Apply for and obtain a LTC concealed before you ruin your record and make yourself ineligible (If you havent done that already.)
2) Carry unloaded in a locked secure container.
3) Continue UOC and adjust your attitude in anticipation of police contact and apply all the aforementioned advice in this thread.
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:50 am |
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We are getting a new police chief here I will be very active in insure that his is more open minded about issuing CCWS
as far I have not ruined my chance s of obtaining it as my charges are not a disqualifying misdemeanor.
Theres a huge difference between contemplating something and actually doing it.. huge
I just got a digital recorder that can be locked but not unlocked with out a password so im gonna play around with it and make sure i understand its abilities and fault before i strap up
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nukechaser
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 04:39 pm |
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stuckinchico wrote: ...Theres a huge difference between contemplating something and actually doing it.. huge ...
I just got a digital recorder that can be locked but not unlocked with out a password so im gonna play around with it and make sure i understand its abilities and fault before i strap up
Yes, the differences are:
1. Commiting the crime.
2. Conspiracy to commit a crime (if you tell/plan/conspire with someone)
Both have penalties. I would suggest never posting the idea that you plan on committing a crime on a public forum such as this. You have nothing to gain from it and a lot to lose.
By the way, what is the make and model of your password protectable recorder?
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KylaGWolf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | San Diego, USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 07:54 pm |
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ConditionThree wrote:
B) You should have a digital voice recorder with sufficient recording time to remain on continuously while you are in public.
D) You should have some pamphlet or memo detailing the legalities of open carry so you can hand them out to interested parties.
4) Bring friendly witnesses. In addition to having a running audio recorder you should be accompanied by other open carriers or supportive friends in the event you have a police encounter. An audio recorder is a blind witness, only recording sound and does not capture things like attitude or demeanor or intent. It has been evidenced in prior events that police appear less inclined to conduct a loaded check on open carriers in groups or three or more.
OK here is a couple of things to keep in mind.
1. Have at least 10 pamphlets on you. People do want the information so if they ask you have one to hand them.
2. The digital recorder should be able to record at minimum 4 hours of continuous use. I wouldn't go less than that because you don't want to risk it stopping in the middle of encounter with an LEO. Also make sure FRESH batteries are in the recorder. Also I would make sure to have either a digital video or digital camera with you both with fresh or fully charged batteries, and decent sized memory card.
3. The not wanting to check more than three is a misnomer. I know this one from personal experience (can't go in to detail since it is still in the process of being dealt with). The police WILL check you even in larger groups. So be prepared for it to happen. KEEP YOUR COOL, don't give them any more information than you have to. The situation can spiral out of control quickly if you don't keep your cool. Also if you have a friendly witness with you make sure THEY get the camera as this happens due to the fact they can continue to record it if you have video capability. DO NOT turn it off no matter what. You could also have your friendly witness be the one with the voice recorder and an attachable mike which will make the audio area extend should you run into an encounter with an LEO.
4. If you are stopped make sure you WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN as soon as possible to make sure you don't forget anything this is vital if you do have to make a complaint against a department or later have to defend yourself. Also make a copy of the digital recording on to a disk and put in a safe place along with the written account of what happened. If for some reason you have an encounter with an LEO that does not go well DO NOT post particulars on the forum since there is always the chance that the LEO's of that department or another department read these forums. We already know they do so might be wise to never post anything in the forums you do NOT want brought up later.
5. Make sure someone knows where you are going and what time you expect to be back. Even if you have a friendly witness. Call them when you get home and all is safe. The having a lawyers number memorized is a good idea although a friend can also have that information just as easily.
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KylaGWolf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | San Diego, USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 08:11 pm |
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stuckinchico wrote: It this point Im ready just to carry concealed illegally Worry about it when and if it comes to it
OK best advise I can give you is NEVER EVER put anything on line that might come back later and bite you. What you just posted can do so.
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
| Status: |
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 10:29 am |
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ConditionThree wrote:
It seems interest in exposed carry has been picking up, and since the Nordyke ruling has come down in favor of incorporating the 2nd, I’m sure many will perceive this as the starting bell for much more open carry activity. But in reviewing some of the more recent posts of first time experiences, it seems that some of the suggestions that some of the veteran members her have dispensed is not reaching our enthusiastic first timers.
With that in mind, the following list is intended to lay the ground rules to successful open carrying in the state of California.
1) Be familiar with and obey the law. You will need a working knowledge of the applicable penal codes, Federal laws, as well as county and local ordinances. Your knowledge should be deep enough that you can cogently explain the law to anyone you might encounter.
2) Treat everyone with courtesy. You may think your only purpose to carry a firearm to defend yourself or exercise your right to keep and bear arms, but you are also an ambassador for the second amendment and how you are perceived directly affects how gun owners are viewed. Smile, make eye contact, say hello. Take time to answer questions. Be friendly. Diffuse irrational fear.
3) Be properly equipped.
A) You should have a belt holster that fits the weapon you are carrying with a minimum of level-one retention. More retention is better. It has been suggested and I think I’d agree, it would be wise to carry in a drop leg or thigh holster- not because it is ‘tacticool’ but because it would reduce the possibility of being accused of a 12025 violation.
B) You should have a digital voice recorder with sufficient recording time to remain on continuously while you are in public.
C) You should have a secure, fully enclosed locking case for your firearm. You will need this to comply with certain no weapons areas exemptions.
D) You should have some pamphlet or memo detailing the legalities of open carry so you can hand them out to interested parties.
E) You should have committed to memory a phone number of an attorney in case you are arrested.
4) Bring friendly witnesses. In addition to having a running audio recorder you should be accompanied by other open carriers or supportive friends in the event you have a police encounter. An audio recorder is a blind witness, only recording sound and does not capture things like attitude or demeanor or intent. It has been evidenced in prior events that police appear less inclined to conduct a loaded check on open carriers in groups or three or more.
5) If you should have a police encounter, comply with police and refer once again to #2.
6) Do not carry a map detailing where all the school zones are located. This will not help you in the event you are stopped by police no matter where you are.
7) You should have $5,000 to $10,000 for a legal defense in the event you are arrested and charged.
8) Do not be in a rush to post your police encounter on a public forum for everyone to read. In many cases, divulging certain details are first, not necessary and second, could give police a reason to revisit the event, as they do read these forums. Sharing your encounter is beneficial for other activists, but you do have a 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself.
If anyone can think of any other requisites to sucessful open carry, PM me and I will amend the list.
btt
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 11:06 pm |
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| btt
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pullnshoot25
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:59 am |
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I got videos on the subject. Not to sound like a broken record or anything...
http://caopencarry.blogspot.com/2009/06/newest-oc-videos.html
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nukechaser
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 05:51 am |
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pullnshoot25 wrote:
I got videos on the subject. Not to sound like a broken record or anything...
... or a scratched CD for you younger folks. Hehe!
Great job on the videos, by the way!
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pullnshoot25
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 06:02 am |
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nukechaser wrote: pullnshoot25 wrote:
I got videos on the subject. Not to sound like a broken record or anything...
... or a scratched CD for you younger folks. Hehe!
Great job on the videos, by the way!
Thanks! 
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ConditionThree
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 9th, 2009 01:48 pm |
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| btt
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
| Status: |
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 10:05 pm |
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| btt Attached Image (viewed 130 times):
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rpyne
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 580 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 10:33 pm |
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Where can I get some stickers like that (no Weapons, Victim Disarmament Zone)?
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2009 01:59 am |
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Where can I get a shirt that says
If guns cause crime then Police cause riots
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2009 02:01 am |
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A) You should have a belt holster that fits the weapon you are carrying with a minimum of level-one retention. More retention is better. It has been suggested and I think I’d agree, it would be wise to carry in a drop leg or thigh holster- not because it is ‘tacticool’ but because it would reduce the possibility of being accused of a 12025 violation.
How is this soo???? It says it needs to be a belt holster
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bigtoe416
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2009 03:47 am |
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stuckinchico wrote: How is this soo???? It says it needs to be a belt holster
This falls under the whole, "it doesn't say it's illegal, so it must be legal" aspect of the law.
12025(f) states:
Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section. |
It doesn't say "Only firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section." I carry in a belt holster because it is specifically listed as being an exception. It'd be a hard argument for a DA to say that a gun on a person's thigh is somehow concealed when a gun on a person's belt isn't.
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2009 11:24 pm |
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I've found that it's not uncommon for LE to believe 12025 actually prohibits carrying "concealable" firearms (all short guns), whether actually concealed or not. For this reason it may be beneficial to be carrying in a belt holster, just to avoid the trip downtown.
I've never carried in a drop-leg holster, but if you live in an area where you need to wear a coat in the winter, a belt holster may not be an option. (In the central valley, I've gotten by just tucking in a heavy sweater - most the winter it doesn't get cold enough to require a coat.)
Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 11:25 pm by CA_Libertarian
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stuckinchico
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2009 06:51 pm |
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Avoid the trip down town hahaha thats funny good i wish i lived down in soc cal again because these :good ole boys" up here really dont care about rights
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camsoup
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 17th, 2009 11:16 pm |
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nukechaser wrote: I believe the salient point is that there isn't ammo "placed into a position from which it can be fired" if you have an empty magazine inserted into the magazine well.
However, make sure your full magazine is plainly visible. This is accomplished usually in a magazine carrier/pouch on your belt, just like your pistol. THIS IS IMPORTANT! A magazine is an integral part of a pistol. Carrying it with ammo in it in your pocket could potentially bring a concealed weapons violation (p.c. 12025).
If you are carrying a revolver you may carry speed loaders, bullets, etc. in your pocket without concern, 'cuz a speed loaded or moon clips are not an integral part of a revolver.
I wonder if some DA's in this state would try to argue that a cartridge is an integral part of a firearm, therefore making it illegal to even conceal moonclips, speedloaders, or loose cartridges....really without a cartridge you don't by definition have a fire arm???  its hard to make it go bang without a round of ammunition.
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