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oc4ever
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 24th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 20 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:43 am |
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Something just does not look right with this case. I understand that we don't have all the facts because nobody except one person was present when this event happened. This is a specific intent crime, you have to *know* (or should have known) you were in violation of being within 1000 feet of the school area. No LEO ever said he admitted to knowing a school was nearby. I am going to assume that Thesus did not testify in his own defense. Maybe he could add that little bit of info. The LEO's seemed to testify truthfully, so the merits (or lack of them) should have been quite clear to the jury.
Given the days the prosecution took, and the very little time the defense took, and the very rapid jury decision, it almost seems like the case was under represented (thrown)by the defense for some reason. I was not at the court, but nobody is saying that a strong defense or rebuttal to the prosecution was mounted. No expert witness regarding gunlaws , etc???
Now I would not risk my personal loss of freedom as the defendant here, but it also has all the makings of running this up the court appeal system to help get this dumb as* law ruled unconstitutional, and thus unenforceable . A not guilty decision at the Alhambra judicial lower court changes nothing. The cops can continue to arrest as they please. A ruling by a higher appeals court throwing the case out would gut the law as unenforceable in that sector of California, and possibly the entire state. UOC would basically become nonrestrictive, and the defacto rule of law in California. It would do what the "Clark" case did for carrying ammo. For no other reason than this, an appeal , and it's cost, should be fully supported by anyone supporting UOC. As my financial situation improves , I will support his appeal process with a donation.
Theseus, I may be way off base here, but the court system normally works very well, and I just don't understand this outcome. This is going to change your life dramatically, and your are going to become the unarmed warrior for quite some time to come in this struggle against the loss of gun rights. You have some kind of guts. To me, your loss really has a chilling effect on the movement, so the DA has gotten what he was after, at least for now. This outcome is just another reason why you should not UOC without a running recording device with you. Everything you do must be clearly documented/recorded, and just keep your mouth shut unless absolutely necessary.
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:56 am by oc4ever
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chewy352
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:50 am |
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| No chilling effect on me personally. I will continue to carry where and when I can and continue to avoid those school zones.
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coolusername2007
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:32 am |
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Theseus, very sorry to read the news about your verdict. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
For all those who actively UOC whether in a group or solo, please let this case be your main reason to sterile carry, that is do not carry your ID while UOCing. This is how Theseus got into this mess to begin with. Please do not identify yourself while UOCing, nothing good will come of it, regardless of how nice the police may seem to you at the time.
Let's all support Theseus with his appeal, let's take it to these socialist, gun-control loving rat bastards and girly man persecutors who have nothing better to do with their time than pervert the Constitution!
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:50 am |
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bigtoe416 wrote:
What a @#$%ing joke. Total bull@#$%. What the @#$% is wrong with this @#$%ing state and these DAs who are wasting Theseus' time and money, wasting our tax money to prosecute and now imprison him. And what the @#$% is wrong with these jurors who are found a man guilty when he didn't violate the @#$%ing law. Total crap.
On a non-cussing note, any plans to appeal? I'll be throwing a 900 dollars more behind you (plus 900 dollars more from my employer matching) if you are.
Who do you work for? 
Edit: No need to answer if you don't want to, but +1 to your employer.
Oh, and +1000 to your post.Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:52 am by marshaul
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:56 am |
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over on calguns Librarian wrote:
Do us a favor, go plead guilty so the appeals can begin. What a pure case for "bear" to be tested in a public total prohibition zone for an openly carried unloaded handgun NOT on school property!
+1000 on the STFU and take down all postings and blogs.
Does this mean that calguns will take an appeal seriously, as having potential to set important precedent?
Or are they still going to pretend this doesn't affect them?
Please tell me you intend to appeal.
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:18 am |
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marshaul wrote: over on calguns Librarian wrote:
Do us a favor, go plead guilty so the appeals can begin. What a pure case for "bear" to be tested in a public total prohibition zone for an openly carried unloaded handgun NOT on school property!
+1000 on the STFU and take down all postings and blogs.
Does this mean that calguns will take an appeal seriously, as having potential to set important precedent?
Or are they still going to pretend this doesn't affect them?
Please tell me you intend to appeal.
I can't believe Librarian wrote that. Plead guilty then get an appeal? I thought you couldn't appeal on your own guilty plea.
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:20 am |
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chewy352 wrote: No chilling effect on me personally. I will continue to carry where and when I can and continue to avoid those school zones.
Prepare to be persecuted anyway. There is absolutely nothing stopping these colluding traitors from again rewriting the law to make the entire state a school zone, not just private property.
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:04 am |
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N6ATF wrote:
marshaul wrote: over on calguns Librarian wrote:
Do us a favor, go plead guilty so the appeals can begin. What a pure case for "bear" to be tested in a public total prohibition zone for an openly carried unloaded handgun NOT on school property!
+1000 on the STFU and take down all postings and blogs.
Does this mean that calguns will take an appeal seriously, as having potential to set important precedent?
Or are they still going to pretend this doesn't affect them?
Please tell me you intend to appeal.
I can't believe Librarian wrote that. Plead guilty then get an appeal? I thought you couldn't appeal on your own guilty plea.
You're right, it was Liberty1.
I wasn't really being serious, but that's what I get for posting across forums while paying attention to other things. 
My bad.Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:04 am by marshaul
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:14 am |
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marshaul wrote: N6ATF wrote:
marshaul wrote: over on calguns Librarian wrote:
Do us a favor, go plead guilty so the appeals can begin. What a pure case for "bear" to be tested in a public total prohibition zone for an openly carried unloaded handgun NOT on school property!
+1000 on the STFU and take down all postings and blogs.
Does this mean that calguns will take an appeal seriously, as having potential to set important precedent?
Or are they still going to pretend this doesn't affect them?
Please tell me you intend to appeal.
I can't believe Librarian wrote that. Plead guilty then get an appeal? I thought you couldn't appeal on your own guilty plea.
You're right, it was Liberty1.
I wasn't really being serious, but that's what I get for posting across forums while paying attention to other things.
My bad.
Lib*.* whatever, it still doesn't make sense. LOL
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:50 am |
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oc4ever wrote: ...I may be way off base here, but the court system normally works very well...
You may be way off base with that assumption. I don't want to make a broad generalization, and I'll admit the Judicial is probably the least evil of the 3 branches of our government...
But as the old saying goes: "power corrupts." The DAs and judges have a LOT of power.
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:51 am |
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Thesues, hang in there buddy. I know you of all people aren't surprised by the ruling, as you mentioned this probability several times.
Rest assured that the higher courts tend to be less corrupt. Good will prevail.
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nomidlname
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon May 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | Reno, Nevada USA |
| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 05:33 pm |
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| Theseus, I am sorry to hear the verdict even though it was expected. The rules that the judge put in place all but effectively locked your conviction. It's what legislating judges do. A guilty verdict was expected and pretty much locked due to the rules the judge put in effect. I know you were hoping for a not-guilty verdict even though the deck was stacked against you. It can be overturned. Don't give up the fight. I know your going to appeal. Hopefully you know that a lot of us in the 47 States of America are rooting for you... most in your state are too.
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bigtoe416
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:28 pm |
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marshaul wrote: Who do you work for?
Edit: No need to answer if you don't want to, but +1 to your employer.
Oh, and +1000 to your post.
I work for the Sunnyvale Police Department of course! They're just so kind to want to stand up and support all of our rights. 
Actually no, I'd be fired if I was a cop for not enforcing lame laws or bothering law abiding citizens. I'd also make an awful Gestapo member.
I don't think it's too uncommon for companies to match non-profit contributions from their employees. CalGuns is a non-profit, everybody should check out their own company's employee handbook or just ask HR.
Edit: Grammar
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:29 pm by bigtoe416
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NightOwl
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Jul 26th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 391 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 11:06 pm |
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| Ugh...this travesty of justice...I don't even have the words. That whole state is a wreck. I vote that we move everyone who wants that level of government running their lives moves to california, and everyone else moves out. We can build a wall to keep them in at that point.
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inbox485
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 11:58 pm |
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N6ATF wrote: marshaul wrote: over on calguns Librarian wrote:
Do us a favor, go plead guilty so the appeals can begin. What a pure case for "bear" to be tested in a public total prohibition zone for an openly carried unloaded handgun NOT on school property!
+1000 on the STFU and take down all postings and blogs.
Does this mean that calguns will take an appeal seriously, as having potential to set important precedent?
Or are they still going to pretend this doesn't affect them?
Please tell me you intend to appeal.
I can't believe Librarian wrote that. Plead guilty then get an appeal? I thought you couldn't appeal on your own guilty plea.
You can appeal the pre-trial decisions that led to your guilty plea allowing you to change your plea. The state would then have the option of putting you through another trial or dropping the charges. In theseus's case, he would be appealing the jury instructions based on the pretrial rulings as well as anything supressed from trial based on the pretrial rulings, and if I understand the process correctly he couldn't be tried again unless the appellate judge felt their was legal merit for the conviction despite any overturned rulings.
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heliopolissolutions
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 25th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 80 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:00 am |
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There is a word for this......
hmm...
mm....
...fixed?
Yeah.
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VAopencarry
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:29 am |
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I am mostly speechless. The part that isn't speechless, I can't say out loud.
Best of luck to you.
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demnogis
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 05:48 am |
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This isnt over yet! There is still a (guaranteed) chance he can win on appeal. Keep donating and lets offer what support and help we can until the issue is rectified in Theseus' favor.
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Nutczak
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 04:11 pm |
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Maybe I am giving too much credit to the attorney with this, but could the case have been thrown on purpose so precedent can be set in a higher court on appeal?
The issue of what is considered private property as compared to public property;
What about a gun range or gun shop? Is their parking area also considered public property? If within 1,000 feet of a school could make the basis of the business illegal in the judges ways of thinking.
Note to theseus;
Sorry for your loss of rights and being harrassed, I hope things go well during the appeal and you will be able to set precedent for the entire state. The federal GFSZ's were ruled unconstitutional, so I see no reason the GFSZ cannot be successfully challenged in CA.
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 07:04 pm |
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Nutczak wrote: Maybe I am giving too much credit to the attorney with this, but could the case have been thrown on purpose so precedent can be set in a higher court on appeal?
I doubt it was "thrown". Innefective assistance of counsel, from what I hear, is harder to argue on appeal, than simply having your counsel establish strenuous objections on the record to every step of the persecution.
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