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SANDCREEK
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:29 pm |
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I've never had a problem with display of a holstered weapon in W/M, and I OC probably 1/2 the time that I shop there. Store management has authority here . That is obvious to some - apparently not so obvious to others. Ignorance is manifested when the obvious is ignored.Last edited on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:02 pm by SANDCREEK
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Ganghater
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:47 pm |
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albritton77 wrote: old dog wrote: What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license?
People too-readily accede to invasions of privacy. If he is unhappy with you he probably has a virtually unlimited right to ask you to leave.
However, he doesn't have a right to ask if you have money or a credit card or if you can afford to shop in his store or if you're employed or if you have a record or if you patronize his competitors or . . . hell, you get it.
One of the things most needed by our people is a major leaving-alone.
Until open carry becomes legitimately commonplace, we won't be left alone.
Why?
Because we (open carry people) are the exception (although perfectly legal) to everyday conduct. Being the exception *to anything* is going to get some sort of attention. We can handle that attention in only two different ways:
1.) We can get frustrated at the attention we bring upon ourselves, and give ourselves a black eye for our complete lack of patience and understanding towards the rest of society.
2.) We can start (re)teaching the populous that people who open carry are NOT criminals, that what we are doing is perfectly legal, and should be socially acceptable.
Personally, I prefer the latter of the two.
I agree. History has shown that it takes time and patience to change prejudice.
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:31 pm |
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CJ30-06 wrote: this was a couple months ago, but I was in Salida Wal-mart, and there was an off duty cop in there, he had already seen me and done nothing, but some of the people got concerned so he asked me if I had a permit, I semi-chuckled and said that I did not need one for open carry, he asked for my ID and I said he didn't need that either. He then threatened bringing a uniformed, on duty cop there, I told him to go ahead and do that, that kinda surprised him, so I went ahead and gave it to him after he said that people were concerned, I also had told him my reason for open carry; self-defense. He just wrote down my ID numbers and I went on my way, he kept saying it wasn't a good idea to carry in wal-mart, I replied by saying that if anyone did attempt to commit a "shooting", I was not going to be unarmed. This was about the worst I've ever dealt with so far. One other thing, I like that you showed the manager your ccw, but you see, I can't get one yet, I'm 19 and it's perfectly legal for me to open carry, but not conceal until I'm 21 and can get a permit.
Part of this was your age. Seeing someone so young OC is going to cause some people to be concerned. With me, they just assume I'm a cop. Still, I'd rather be 19...
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 09:29 pm |
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| yeah, but you wanna know what I do when I don't want to be asked ANY quetions? I'm a volunteer firefighter, so I have a radio, when someone sees even a 19 year old, with a beretta 92, and a radio on the other hip, what do you think is the first thing they assume; COP!
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Wolf81504
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 04:36 am |
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Another idea that you all might find interesting to "break people in" to OC in a store of any sort is to carry an empty holster for a few trips, go regularly, and be seen and noticed. I have been leaving my weapon in the car and carrying an empty holster, and two loaded 17 round mag's in a mag holster. And have still been mistaken for a LEO. So after a while of carrying without a weapon in holster, I will try with a weapon, and hope that the "breaking in" worked.
Most people are prone to psycological manipulation by power of suggestion. Read the artical "Raging Against Self Defense"
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm
In this publication Sarah Thompson shares the "Anti-gun Mentality" and why people are afraid of people with guns. The idea of carrying an empty holster kind of came about from reading this article. In the artical Sarah talk's about all kind's of ways to introduce other's to the idea of another person carrying a gun. She also explains why people are afrade of guns. And before you say "I already know" read the article all the way through. It is important for us in the OC community to understand, and show empathy twards individual's and groups that oppose guns. Here is a snip from "The Power of Empathy section of her article.
"Using empathy works in several ways. First, it defuses a potentially hostile interaction. Anti-gun people are used to being attacked, not understood, by advocates of gun rights. Instead of an "evil, gun-toting, extremist", you are now a sympathetic, fellow human being. This may also open the door for a friendly conversation, in which you can each discover that your "opponent" is a person with whom you have some things in common. You may even create an opportunity to dispel some of the misinformation about firearms and self-defense that is so prevalent." © 2000, Sarah Thompson
After Reading this article, I now understand more of why my dad is against me carrying a gun. He either want's to become a victim, or has controle issues.... Probably the latter since he still tries to tell me that i'm wrong on everything and he isn't....
Anyway Here is a link to the Colorado Department of Law http://www.ago.state.co.us/
Might be of some help sometime in the future as well.
Wolf
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SANDCREEK
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 04:52 am |
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Another reason people in general are uncomfortable with the sight of a holstered handgun - is that it interupts their "grade school" frame of mind from which many haven't yet graduated. The presence of another citizen being armed puts the brakes on their disposition to be rude & cocky. It sobers them up a bit - causing them to "recalibrate" their social software.
I suspect the presence of a visibly displayed weapon reduces shoplifting as well as other crimes against persons in parking lots. OC will become more accepted once this reality is recognized.
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Wolf81504
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 05:18 am |
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SANDCREEK wrote: ....I suspect the presence of a visibly displayed weapon reduces shoplifting as well as other crimes against persons in parking lots. OC will become more accepted once this reality is recognized.
+1 for this!
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 08:38 pm |
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| yeah, I've had times when someone was rude to either me or even someone else, and without saying anything to them, or even hinting, once they saw the weapon, they quieted down real quick, I've also had times where someone may have been pretty close to commiting some sort of crime, and nothing happened, so I can only hope that I was the influence that stopped a crime, if one was actually going to be commited.
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SANDCREEK
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 08:45 pm |
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| Proving that the presence of an armed citizen prevented a potential specific criminal act may be an impossibility - but over a period of time it's not unreasonable to give credit where it is deserved . Many of us have seen enough evidence of the deterrent affect in our own experience to be more than convinced.
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rpyne
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 10:03 pm |
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gunsfreak4791 wrote:Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction"
Actually, I think Barry Goldwater said it right: "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
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Colorado Luckydog
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:49 pm |
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I had a small problem at Walmart on Bowles and C470. I went in and bought grocreies and no one seemed to noticed I was ocing. I went to the truck and put the stuff away and then looked on the ground and found part of someone's wallet. It had personal stuff that someone would want back. I walked back into the store to turn it in and was stopped by the Walmart greeter. He was very nervous when he approached me and asked me if I was a police officer. After he knew I was not, he said he needed to contact his manager to see if he could let me in the store. He said he didn't want to get fired. I let him off easy and told him to turn in the wallet and he needed to check with his manager because I shop there a lot and I would be back with the same gun on my hip. He was very apologetic and very nice. I have been back since and oc and no one said a word. He was not at the door though.
I would certainly hate to stop shopping at Walmart. They save me a ton of dough on grocieries, kids clothes, household items and even sporting goods. However, I would stop shopping there so fast it would make their head swim if they did not allow me to carry because of new store policy. I would also tell anyone that would listen to not shop there.
Last edited on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:52 pm by Colorado Luckydog
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DVC2010
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 03:56 am |
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CJ30-06 wrote:
yeah, I've had times when someone was rude to either me or even someone else, and without saying anything to them, or even hinting, once they saw the weapon, they quieted down real quick, I've also had times where someone may have been pretty close to commiting some sort of crime, and nothing happened, so I can only hope that I was the influence that stopped a crime, if one was actually going to be commited.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert Heinlein
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 08:35 pm |
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hansolo wrote: Yeah, you are not going to get arrested. The manager can ask you to leave, then you file a complaint with corporate for a violation of policy (state law is Wal Mart law). Or the cop wrongfully arrests you and you have a civil suit on your hands.
"state law is wal-mart law"? If you can point me in the direction of this info, (such as Wal-mart's website or something) I would be greatly appreciative. (or if anyone else is still watching this topic)
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RLCbushpilot
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 12:48 am |
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| Search around on the forum. There have been several threads with evidence that this is Walmart policy. I think someone talked to the director of security for Walmart and confirmed it, with phone numbers attached to the post so that you could check yourself or give to a store manager if you were harassed. It seems to me that I saw that in the Washington state section.
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 01:17 am |
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| thank you I'll definitely look around. If you do see it again, let me know though.
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RLCbushpilot
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 05:45 am |
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Here's a link to one of the threads from the Washington forum. I couldn't find the one that had Walmart's security director's phone number in it.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21920&forum_id=55&highlight=walmart
ETA: This thread has the number for the Walmart security director in it. It's from last summer but hopefully it still applies.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=13123&forum_id=55&highlight=%26quot;walmart+security%26quot;Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 05:52 am by RLCbushpilot
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dfox
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 01:25 am |
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Here:
Walmart
Policy is to follow the law of the state the store located.
Customer Service1-800-Wal-Mart
(1-800-925-6278) Questions regarding a Wal-Mart Store issue
702 SW 8th Street
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611
Email contact link: http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx
Audio of Walmart Policy: Walmart_Firearm_Policy_Call.mp3
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Adamdude04
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 12:33 am |
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I like the way you handled that.
I personal look down on these guys that always start an argument against staff of any business about OC laws an such.
..look at it this way, you get asked to see something. You can either argue with them about laws, and odds are be asked to leave, or the Police show up. Either way this wastes your time. You have to go to ANOTHER store, OR wait for the Police to sort this out.
Ontop of that, you make OC guys look bad, because you have to argue and argue.
Isn't it easier to just show them a CCW license, make them feel better or happier about what's going on?
Now there are times where the store managers freak out regardless. I went to walmart one time, and the manager asked if I had a permit or badge. I asked which one he wanted to see. Then all the sudden, his rules changed, and I had to leave. Didn't ask me which one to see. Just I had to leave...
either way, to the OP, I like your action. Congradulations.
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albritton77
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:27 am |
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Towards Adamdude04....
Ummmm.....
Thank you???
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Adamdude04
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 06:23 pm |
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albritton77 wrote: Towards Adamdude04....
Ummmm.....
Thank you???
Simply put, yes, you're welcome 
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