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albritton77
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 03:17 pm |
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I was in the Cañon City Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago with my wife and 3 children.... open carrying, of course. The manager(?) of the place approached me and asked me if I had “credentials” for my firearm.
I looked at the gentleman for a few seconds, and within those few seconds I contemplated the approach of “It's legal to open-carry without a license in Colorado” vs. showing him my CCW license.
I decided to show him my license.... just to see what his reaction would be. He looked at my “credentials,” looked at me, gave me my license back, and said “have a nice day.”
Now.... before all of you die-hard “you have no right to ask me for identification” individuals get mad at me and ostracize me from this discussion board, let me speak in my own defense.
I was not threatened, intimidated, or otherwise ordered to show my identification in any way. A private business owner/manager(ish) merely asked a question, and I could have answered that question in more than one way. I chose to handle that situation in that manner for the following reason:I wanted to see his reaction. Would he throw a fit? Would he start quoting Wal-Mart policy that nobody has ever seen or been able to verify? Or would he recognize that I wasn't the bad guy and merely needed to do some shopping? (While carrying a gun, of course.)
I must say I was pleasantly surprised at his reaction. He didn't throw a fit, policy wasn't quoted, nobody else bothered me or my family, and the police never showed up. The situation was handled in a professional manner, even though it can be quite annoying to be questioned about legally carrying a firearm.
All in all, even though it was a mildly annoying situation to start with, it didn't turn badly. A local Wal-Mart also learned ON CAMERA that not all people with guns are bad. (It's been quite some time since I've seen a Wal-Mart without surveillance cameras on their ceilings.)
Ok. I'm done. You can crucify me for showing an ID now. <grin>
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mahkagari
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Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 06:16 pm |
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| Actually, I like this approach. I might've shown my rock gym membership card to see the reaction and pointed out that to get the membership I had to be of majority age, same as for OC. (Yes, I know 18 vs. 21, but it still spurs thinking about real "credentials" than assumptions.) Or better yet, my no picture supermarket club card! Last edited on Wed May 27th, 2009 06:17 pm by mahkagari
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centsi
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 10:36 pm |
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I don't have an issue with your response. That's why it's yours  . Sounds like the manager "asked" to see your credentials, even though they don't really exist, and you decided to make him feel comfortable by showing him your CCW. I have an issue with public authority demanding something without reasonable suspicion.
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doublewide
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 02:35 am |
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| Good, quick thinking! I like that approach.
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doublewide
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 02:35 am |
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| Good, quick thinking! I like that approach.
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old dog
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 09:21 am |
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What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license?
People too-readily accede to invasions of privacy. If he is unhappy with you he probably has a virtually unlimited right to ask you to leave.
However, he doesn't have a right to ask if you have money or a credit card or if you can afford to shop in his store or if you're employed or if you have a record or if you patronize his competitors or . . . hell, you get it.
One of the things most needed by our people is a major leaving-alone.Last edited on Thu May 28th, 2009 09:29 am by old dog
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SANDCREEK
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 02:45 pm |
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W/M parking lot is one of the most dangerous places on earth. Different situation than shopping area inside store. Manager has every right to satisfy any concern over questionable status of armed person inside.
If W/M keeps getting pushed into a corner on this OC issue - guess what ! They WILL issue a "formal policy" - and we won't like it. These are the folks that require a firearm purchase to be escorted out of the store. It's their store - respect that.
I OC from my parking space to front door of stores regularly - and then sometimes opt to CC at door for reasons that I deem justifiable. After shopping I may again choose to display holstered weapon on return to vehicle. This dogmatic tendancy of some OC advocates is counter-productive to the cause.
Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction"
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albritton77
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 09:56 pm |
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old dog wrote: What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license?
People too-readily accede to invasions of privacy. If he is unhappy with you he probably has a virtually unlimited right to ask you to leave.
However, he doesn't have a right to ask if you have money or a credit card or if you can afford to shop in his store or if you're employed or if you have a record or if you patronize his competitors or . . . hell, you get it.
One of the things most needed by our people is a major leaving-alone.
Until open carry becomes legitimately commonplace, we won't be left alone.
Why?
Because we (open carry people) are the exception (although perfectly legal) to everyday conduct. Being the exception *to anything* is going to get some sort of attention. We can handle that attention in only two different ways:
1.) We can get frustrated at the attention we bring upon ourselves, and give ourselves a black eye for our complete lack of patience and understanding towards the rest of society.
2.) We can start (re)teaching the populous that people who open carry are NOT criminals, that what we are doing is perfectly legal, and should be socially acceptable.
Personally, I prefer the latter of the two.
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mahkagari
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 02:58 am |
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albritton77 wrote:
2.) We can start (re)teaching the populous that people who open carry are NOT criminals, that what we are doing is perfectly legal, and should be socially acceptable.
Personally, I prefer the latter of the two.
Absolutely. All the more reason to good naturedly smile and show him your Subway sandwich of the month club card. Wait, I think you can be a minor and have one of those.
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 01:30 am |
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this was a couple months ago, but I was in Salida Wal-mart, and there was an off duty cop in there, he had already seen me and done nothing, but some of the people got concerned so he asked me if I had a permit, I semi-chuckled and said that I did not need one for open carry, he asked for my ID and I said he didn't need that either. He then threatened bringing a uniformed, on duty cop there, I told him to go ahead and do that, that kinda surprised him, so I went ahead and gave it to him after he said that people were concerned, I also had told him my reason for open carry; self-defense. He just wrote down my ID numbers and I went on my way, he kept saying it wasn't a good idea to carry in wal-mart, I replied by saying that if anyone did attempt to commit a "shooting", I was not going to be unarmed. This was about the worst I've ever dealt with so far. One other thing, I like that you showed the manager your ccw, but you see, I can't get one yet, I'm 19 and it's perfectly legal for me to open carry, but not conceal until I'm 21 and can get a permit.
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albritton77
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 06:09 pm |
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Personally, I would have made him get the uniformed officer..... just to make him follow through with such an unjustified threat.
The excuse of "the customers are worried" as a need to see your ID was not legally justified and wouldn't have held a drop of water in court.
But that's just me....
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 09:18 pm |
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| true, but I'd rather NOT get arrested.
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albritton77
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 10:13 pm |
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Arrested for what?
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hansolo
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 10:57 pm |
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Yeah, you are not going to get arrested. The manager can ask you to leave, then you file a complaint with corporate for a violation of policy (state law is Wal Mart law). Or the cop wrongfully arrests you and you have a civil suit on your hands.
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gunsfreak4791
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:10 am |
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SANDCREEK wrote:
If W/M keeps getting pushed into a corner on this OC issue - guess what ! They WILL issue a "formal policy" - and we won't like it. These are the folks that require a firearm purchase to be escorted out of the store. It's their store - respect that.
Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction"
So your saying Wal-Mart is going to come out with a policy for Fire-Arms if we keep OC'ing Correct.
I wish Wal-Mart would come up with a policy so it could be challenged. Your fears about Wal-Mart are based on your own Ignorance. See I have been pushing Wal-Mart for years to come out with a policy.
Now grasshopper if a company this large came out with a policy stating no guns they would loose bussiness in the millions. It's Far better for Wal-Mart to sit on the fenceline and give the District manager the approval to make that decision. I have spoken with some very high up people who have stated in confidence that a policy for or against firearms on a coperate level will never happen.
I hope that OC'ing will continue in Wal-marts accross the country. The more expousure to Firearms and the more questions asked will result in people becoming more welcoming of firearms in public
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CJ30-06
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:19 am |
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| so they don't have a policy? cause Gunnison wal-mart asked me to leave, and said it was wal-mart policy, but she wasn't even a head manager.And the one in Salida doesn't even care so far.
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gunsfreak4791
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:52 am |
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| The policy for Wal-Mart is to put it in the hands of The District Manager
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AB
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 05:41 am |
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Walmart policy is to follow the state that the store is in.
It has been set by the legal staff at HQ.
There are store managers that are ignorant of this policy.
If they put anything in writing it causes a liability burden.
It is that simple, anything else is just BS.
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gunsfreak4791
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:05 pm |
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| That means that you can't blame other oc'ers when you get kicked out of Wal- Mart AB.
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AB
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:11 pm |
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gunsfreak4791 wrote: That means that you can't blame other oc'ers when you get kicked out of Wal- Mart AB.
What are you going to do, dictate what someone does on their own property?
I guess you just choose what part of the Constitution is important and throw the rest away.
Last edited on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:12 pm by AB
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