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wrightme
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| Location: | Fallon, Nevada USA |
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 06:59 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: JUMPMASTER wrote: She is lucky you didn't have her arrested for causing you annoyance, alarm, inconvience, and grief. : )
HE is VERY lucky he didn't get arrested had she called in "man with a gun". According to the SFLU and BFPE, you are to make EVERY effort to keep your firearm concealed because if you don't and it "causes alarm" to another person, you risk arrest and losing your permit. This was a direct response on the BFPE FAQ section on their website. There was a lot of good stuff there but, unfortunately, they took most of it down because people were citing it as legal advice, which it was NOT. Remember the guy at Chili's who went in to pick up his take out and his pistol was exposed? A LOT of legal trouble for that guy.
I know it isn't in the LAW, but those two units, especially the SFLU, make the rules and that's what they go by. Just like defining the AK-47 "type" and what qualifies under the assault weapons ban. Show me where that is codified in the law ANYWHERE. You can't...because it's not there...
If it "isn't the law," but "that's what they go by," they will likely need to get used to purchasing motorcycles for others. 
The LAW as written (or as administered in case law) is what "matters." LE Departments cannot create law out of whole cloth. Your support of such is not helpful.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:02 pm |
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JUMPMASTER wrote: Heck, even the Commissioner of the Department of Public Safety admitted during public testimoney that open carry is currently legal.
Then I challenge you to nut up and OC in the downtown areas of the cities I listed above...or any large city in CT and TAKE PICTURES/VIDEO IN PUBLIC because, if you don't, any "I've already done it and had no problems" comments are PURE BS. Just because it's CURRENTLY "legal" doesn't mean you won't get arrested and have a LOT of legal headaches. What if that Commissioner (or the next) one changes their stance? Sometimes using your brain with some discretion is better than "just because I can". Yes, I know that sounds defeatist so save all the "you're part of the problem" comments...it just is what it is here... Again..."points to guy at Chili's"...
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Hef
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:03 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: JUMPMASTER wrote: She is lucky you didn't have her arrested for causing you annoyance, alarm, inconvience, and grief. : )
HE is VERY lucky he didn't get arrested had she called in "man with a gun". According to the SFLU and BFPE, you are to make EVERY effort to keep your firearm concealed because if you don't and it "causes alarm" to another person, you risk arrest and losing your permit. This was a direct response on the BFPE FAQ section on their website. There was a lot of good stuff there but, unfortunately, they took most of it down because people were citing it as legal advice, which it was NOT. Remember the guy at Chili's who went in to pick up his take out and his pistol was exposed? A LOT of legal trouble for that guy.
I know it isn't in the LAW, but those two units, especially the SFLU, make the rules and that's what they go by. Just like defining the AK-47 "type" and what qualifies under the assault weapons ban. Show me where that is codified in the law ANYWHERE. You can't...because it's not there...
The SLFU doesn't make the rules. They process permit apps. They are also very pro-gun. The permit board are the people who think they make the rules, and they are anti-gun.
I have no legal obligation to conceal my firearm until the legislature and the governor say so. A concealment proposal is in the works, but for the time being OC is perfectly legal in CT.
As for your following post, I OC from the Bradley airport, wherever I stoo (which has included Waterbury, but not Naugatuck), Danbury area, Stamford area, and some of Bridgeport (though not downtown). I generally try to avoid Bridgeport and Waterbury, since I have little to no business there and I don't particularly like the crime-ridden atmosphere.
I'm not worried about Stamford at all. My cousin just retired from there as the chief of police. My family is full of LEO's.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:03 pm |
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wrightme wrote: If it "isn't the law," but "that's what they go by," they will likely need to get used to purchasing motorcycles for others.
WTF?
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Hef
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:06 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: Well, I just fired off an email about OC to my local PD and the SLFU. I'll post what they respond with...if they respond at all.
I don't ask a cop for legal opinions just like I don't ask a bank teller for economic forecasts. Neither is worth a damn.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:08 pm |
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Hef wrote:
As for your following post, I OC from the Bradley airport, wherever I stoo (which has included Waterbury, but not Naugatuck), Danbury area, Stamford area, and some of Bridgeport (though not downtown). I generally try to avoid Bridgeport and Waterbury, since I have little to no business there and I don't particularly like the crime-ridden atmosphere.
I'm not worried about Stamford at all. My cousin just retired from there as the chief of police. My family is full of LEO's.
Well, if you have "LEO mafia" protection, good for you. Not everyone does. And, as I said before...comments don't cut it. PICS/VIDEO and then maybe I won't raise the BS flag on you. I've lived in CT, been all over the state extensively and worked for Sikorsky for a looooong time and I've NEVER seen anyone OC...and I make it a point to notice... I have seen some REALLY bad cases of printing, though. I about @#$% myself when I saw some fat old biker dude in a Big Y wearing a Larry the Cable Guy shirt, sleeveless of course, that said, "The right to keep and BARE arms shall not be infringed. Of course, right at 3:30 was a HUGE pistol/holster combo carried OWB under an already too tight shirt. He was short and kept exposing the lower half every time he reached up for something. Hilarious. 
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:09 pm |
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Hef wrote: I don't ask a cop for legal opinions just like I don't ask a bank teller for economic forecasts. Neither is worth a damn.
I also contacted the SLFU, which makes a lot of the "rules". Are they just as worthless?
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Hef
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:09 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: JUMPMASTER wrote: Heck, even the Commissioner of the Department of Public Safety admitted during public testimoney that open carry is currently legal.
Then I challenge you to nut up and OC in the downtown areas of the cities I listed above...or any large city in CT and TAKE PICTURES/VIDEO IN PUBLIC because, if you don't, any "I've already done it and had no problems" comments are PURE BS. Just because it's CURRENTLY "legal" doesn't mean you won't get arrested and have a LOT of legal headaches. What if that Commissioner (or the next) one changes their stance? Sometimes using your brain with some discretion is better than "just because I can". Yes, I know that sounds defeatist so save all the "you're part of the problem" comments...it just is what it is here... Again..."points to guy at Chili's"...
Why would you use the word "legal" in quotes, as if to question it's legitimacy? Maybe you don't understand our system of law, but in America, that which is not prohibited by law is permitted. The absence of a prohibition on open carry makes it legal.
The fact that an LEO may arrest you, a permit holder, for OC'ing does not make your actions any less lawful.
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Hef
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:12 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: Hef wrote:
As for your following post, I OC from the Bradley airport, wherever I stoo (which has included Waterbury, but not Naugatuck), Danbury area, Stamford area, and some of Bridgeport (though not downtown). I generally try to avoid Bridgeport and Waterbury, since I have little to no business there and I don't particularly like the crime-ridden atmosphere.
I'm not worried about Stamford at all. My cousin just retired from there as the chief of police. My family is full of LEO's.
Well, if you have "LEO mafia" protection, good for you. Not everyone does. And, as I said before...comments don't cut it. PICS/VIDEO and then maybe I won't raise the BS flag on you. I've lived in CT, been all over the state extensively and worked for Sikorsky for a looooong time and I've NEVER seen anyone OC...and I make it a point to notice... I have seen some REALLY bad cases of printing, though. I about @#$% myself when I saw some fat old biker dude in a Big Y wearing a Larry the Cable Guy shirt, sleeveless of course, that said, "The right to keep and BARE arms shall not be infringed. Of course, right at 3:30 was a HUGE pistol/holster combo carried OWB under an already too tight shirt. He was short and kept exposing the lower half every time he reached up for something. Hilarious.
Well, since all the LEO's in CT don't have a telepathic network to communicate with, I conduct myself under the assumption that I may be challenged, and must therefore handle all confrontations on my own. And I do. My point is that I haven't had ANY.
Hell, most people don't even notice that I'm carrying.....or they don't care.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:13 pm |
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Hef wrote
The SLFU doesn't make the rules.
Yes, they do, in a lot of cases. What did you not understand about them making the rule as to what an "AK-47 TYPE" is? They can change that over night and I've NEVER seen the actual definition in writing other than in an email from SGT Bastura, who is/was the XO of the SLFU. I know it isn't "solid legal", but I keep a printed copy, along with my receipt showing I bought my AK-74 at a show in Waterbury, in case I ever get called out for having something banned at the range. And, I have...
What I've never gotten a good answer for is what happens to a person if they get caught carrying and have the permit, but not physically on them. Forgot wallet or something...
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:16 pm |
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Hef wrote: The fact that an LEO may arrest you, a permit holder, for OC'ing does not make your actions any less lawful.
I never said OC was illegal. I used "legal" in quotes because Johnny Law MAKES "legal" happen however he wants at the time because he may very well not even know the law as so often happens. Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean a person won't have a PITA day if approached for OC. Right or wrong...it is what it is... And I still call BS on the people who OC "all the time" all over CT and have NEVER had a problem or been questioned.
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JUMPMASTER
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:16 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: Hef wrote:
As for your following post, I OC from the Bradley airport, wherever I stoo (which has included Waterbury, but not Naugatuck), Danbury area, Stamford area, and some of Bridgeport (though not downtown). I generally try to avoid Bridgeport and Waterbury, since I have little to no business there and I don't particularly like the crime-ridden atmosphere.
I'm not worried about Stamford at all. My cousin just retired from there as the chief of police. My family is full of LEO's.
Well, if you have "LEO mafia" protection, good for you. Not everyone does. And, as I said before...comments don't cut it. PICS/VIDEO and then maybe I won't raise the BS flag on you. I've lived in CT, been all over the state extensively and worked for Sikorsky for a looooong time and I've NEVER seen anyone OC...and I make it a point to notice... I have seen some REALLY bad cases of printing, though. I about @#$% myself when I saw some fat old biker dude in a Big Y wearing a Larry the Cable Guy shirt, sleeveless of course, that said, "The right to keep and BARE arms shall not be infringed. Of course, right at 3:30 was a HUGE pistol/holster combo carried OWB under an already too tight shirt. He was short and kept exposing the lower half every time he reached up for something. Hilarious.
So what is the big deal with "printing?" He can carry his gun anyway he wants. Just because he chose to have it covered doesn't mean it has to be completely covered. And if he chose to carry it in the open doesn't mean it has to be completely in the open. That's the beauty of Connecticut, you can carry you gun and way you want to and it is completely LEGAL.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:20 pm |
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JUMPMASTER wrote:So what is the big deal with "printing?
If you're going to carry concealed, then at least do better than a redneck, beater half assed attempt.
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JUMPMASTER
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:22 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: Hef wrote
The SLFU doesn't make the rules.
Yes, they do, in a lot of cases. What did you not understand about them making the rule as to what an "AK-47 TYPE" is? They can change that over night and I've NEVER seen the actual definition in writing other than in an email from SGT Bastura, who is/was the XO of the SLFU. I know it isn't "solid legal", but I keep a printed copy, along with my receipt showing I bought my AK-74 at a show in Waterbury, in case I ever get called out for having something banned at the range. And, I have...
What I've never gotten a good answer for is what happens to a person if they get caught carrying and have the permit, but not physically on them. Forgot wallet or something...
you may wish to visit this website ct.gov/bfpe and review the firearms laws link. If you review the law you will find that if you are carrying but your permit is not physcially on you that it's an infraction and the fine is $35. I don't understand what your statement of "get caught carrying and have the permit.." means. What is there to get "caught" for? Doing something legal is no grounds to be "caught"
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:27 pm |
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JUMPMASTER wrote:
I don't understand what your statement of "get caught carrying and have the permit.." means. What is there to get "caught" for? Doing something legal is no grounds to be "caught"
See, that's the exact thing right there. $35 fine? Naugatuck PD said you'd be arrested on the spot, firearm confiscated and they would petition to have your permit yanked.
What do you not understand about getting caught without physically having the permit? Any number of things that would put you in the hospital when out and about. Heart attack, stroke, serious car accident... The EMTs would find it and most likely contact the police...they'd already be there for a car accident. Or simply being questioned by Officer "Not so Fiendly" if he sees you printing. Again..."points to guy busted at Chili's for printing". Or, gasp! Actually having to use it for self defense!
Last edited on Fri May 8th, 2009 07:28 pm by airgunner23
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:29 pm |
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..."It's legal in Connecticut"... "...if you have a permit for it."
Simple enuff answer... but indicitive of the perversion of the 2A. Rights do not require permission. Not 'legally'. The 2A is as much a civil right as any other. Moreso than most so-called undefined 'rights' lumped into the 14A in that it is a specific right. Actual rights are pre-existing conditions 'recognized' and protected by government. Government can only recognize rights (or restrict and otherwise deny them) not grant them.
Unfortunately... CT requires permit (as do many states I s'pose) to bear arms openly. 'Course there's also states that deny the right altogether. I'll concede 'permit' to carry concealed as mode of carry is not addressed by 2A 'n states have that option under 10A. I say 'option' 'cause that's what it amounts to.
It still angers me tho... when the 'hippies' and such who espouse diversity and all sorts of questionable 'rights' get their multi-colored panties inna wad over the free exercise of the obvious fundamental 'Right' to self defense. I think the appropriate response to these in-your-face 'Why do you have a weapon' questions is: 'Self Defense'.
She was prob'ly from MA or someplace similar. Now 'n then I'll encounter that type among the snowbirds who show up here. What REEEEELY get's 'em goin' is when they'll ask... 'Do you have a permit for that?' (in THAT 'how dare you' tone) and I'll just say 'No' and keep on goin'. I have a permit to carry concealed weapons... but not for 'That' per se... openly on my gunbelt. They'll prob'ly dial 911 and holler MWAG... only to have the 911 operator blow 'em off.
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JUMPMASTER
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:31 pm |
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airgunner23 wrote: JUMPMASTER wrote:
I don't understand what your statement of "get caught carrying and have the permit.." means. What is there to get "caught" for? Doing something legal is no grounds to be "caught"
See, that's the exact thing right there. $35 fine? Naugatuck PD said you'd be arrested on the spot, firearm confiscated and they would petition to have your permit yanked.
What do you not understand about getting caught without physically having the permit? Any number of things that would put you in the hospital when out and about. Heart attack, stroke, serious car accident... The EMTs would find it and most likely contact the police...they'd already be there for a car accident. Or simply being questioned by Officer "Not so Fiendly" if he sees you printing. Again..."points to guy busted at Chili's for printing". Or, gasp! Actually having to use it for self defense!
I would recommend that you spend some time and write a letter or meet with the Naugutuck Chief and point out what the LAW says so that they may be informed.
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:33 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: ..."It's legal in Connecticut"... "...if you have a permit for it."
I have a permit to carry concealed weapons... but not for 'That' per se... openly on my gunbelt. They'll prob'ly dial 911 and holler MWAG... only to have the 911 operator blow 'em off.
But what if you don't have your permit physically on you because you forgot your wallet, purse, or whatever? Are they just going to take your "word" that you have one?
MWAG call...blow 'em off... "Points to guy at Chili's busted for printing and restaurant called 911/po po and he had sh^tloads of legal and financial headaches..."
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airgunner23
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:35 pm |
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JUMPMASTER wrote: I would recommend that you spend some time and write a letter or meet with the Naugutuck Chief and point out what the LAW says so that they may be informed.
And I will do just that very thing. Working on it right now and will follow up with a written letter to the Chief, Detective, Shift Supervisor, Administrative Lieutenant, etc.
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JUMPMASTER
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:38 pm |
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| That "guy at Chilis" unknowingly at the time did more for the open carry movement in Connecticut in one afternoon that anyone previously. And I thank God for people like Ed Peruta and Peter Kuck.
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