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no carry permit ?
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 10:09 pm |
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suntzu wrote: steve33904 wrote: most police would be very grateful if you had your carry license and drivers license in hand and said
"I am licensed and carring a weapon. What would you like me to do?"
I'm sure most would also be grateful if we submitted to every request to search our person, homes and things as well in absence of articulable probable cause.....
Why stop there ?
Some idiot cop somewhere probably would suggest Roadside checkpoints with technicians standing by for cavity searches. Unfortunately some Americans would say,
" well it was uncomfortable but in the interest of officer safety, national security, the war on drugs and illegal immigration control we must waive a few Rights. Our safety depends on the flexibility of law enforcement techniques."
Ever notice how when some clown is waiving "THEIR " rights, they are also advocating or demanding that you waive (better word: surrender) your rights as well ?
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suntzu
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 10:15 pm |
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no carry permit ? wrote: suntzu wrote: steve33904 wrote: most police would be very grateful if you had your carry license and drivers license in hand and said
"I am licensed and carring a weapon. What would you like me to do?"
I'm sure most would also be grateful if we submitted to every request to search our person, homes and things as well in absence of articulable probable cause.....
Why stop there ?
Some idiot cop somewhere probably would suggest Roadside checkpoints with technicians standing by for cavity searches. Unfortunately some Americans would say,
" well it was uncomfortable but in the interest of officer safety, national security, the war on drugs and illegal immigration control we must waive a few Rights. Our safety depends on the flexibility of law enforcement techniques."
Ever notice how when some clown is waiving "THEIR " rights, they are also advocating or demanding that you waive (better word: surrender) your rights as well ?
"they" know what is best for you--just ask "them" and "they" will tell you...
Serioulsy though--how many rights can we afford to give up in the name of security? Once they have our freedoms--they will have our security as well.
I would rather be free than secure--for as long as I am free, I can provide for my own safety.
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Sonora Rebel
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 06:00 pm |
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Interesting to read the statements about how 'dangerous' some occupations may (or may not) be w/o ever having participated directly in either. When actually tasked with the actual performance of such... Police, Military, Firefighter or whatever... it's not 'academic'. It may mean your ass... literally.
Nobody wears a halo indicating they're one of the 'good guys' inna traffic stop. Such stops are among the most dangerous of all police activities. You never know 'what you've got' 'til it happens. When I was in 'Nam on my first tour in '65... a 21 yr. old former classmate was gunned down on Eutaw St. (Baltimore City) in broad daylight by the driver of a car that was double parked (in traffic). He'd just graduated the Police Academy a few months prior. I'd been workin' explosive ordnance flight ops on the flight deck (mostly at night... in all weather... over most of the Oceans 'n Seas on Earth) for about 3 outta 5 years w/o a scratch.
Any Deputy, Ranger, Border Patrol, City Marshall or local cop stops me... I will volunteer that I'm armed, for their safety and mine. I care less what it says in some 'book'... I will keep both hands in sight, on the steering wheel and indicate the position/location of the weapon verbally if/when asked... ignition/radio off. Why? 'Cause I've been there, done that. It's called 'courtesy'... which seems to evade most people these days. Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
There are good cops 'n bad cops 'n so-so cops... but most just want'a go home after their shift like anyone else. Being armed imparts a responsibility to the bearer that isn't written in any damn book... or law. Florida, being a CC only state (so far) does not permit the LEO to readily 'observe' the weapon. It is reasonable and prudent then... to 'advise' the LEO that you are armed... and legitimately so by presenting your CCW with your license 'n such when asked. Police do not like being surprised by the presence of a weapon. You can argue yer 'Rights' till the cows come home... and go off on all these 4A tangents... blah, blah, blah... but a simple courtesy will go a long way.
For the guy who wrote... "If I were in your shoes... I wouldn't worry about it. Firearms are common place..." Is an IDIOT with an alligator mouth overloadin' his hummin' bird ass. Guaranteed! That statement indicates he not only knows nothing... he doesn't suspect anything either. You couldn't fill his shoes... 'cept with what would run down your leg if you even thought about it.
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 06:11 pm by Sonora Rebel
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brboyer
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 06:49 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Interesting to read the statements about how 'dangerous' some occupations may (or may not) be w/o ever having participated directly in either. When actually tasked with the actual performance of such... Police, Military, Firefighter or whatever... it's not 'academic'. It may mean your ass... literally.
Nobody wears a halo indicating they're one of the 'good guys' inna traffic stop. Such stops are among the most dangerous of all police activities. You never know 'what you've got' 'til it happens. When I was in 'Nam on my first tour in '65... a 21 yr. old former classmate was gunned down on Eutaw St. (Baltimore City) in broad daylight by the driver of a car that was double parked (in traffic). He'd just graduated the Police Academy a few months prior. I'd been workin' explosive ordnance flight ops on the flight deck (mostly at night... in all weather... over most of the Oceans 'n Seas on Earth) for about 3 outta 5 years w/o a scratch.
Any Deputy, Ranger, Border Patrol, City Marshall or local cop stops me... I will volunteer that I'm armed, for their safety and mine. I care less what it says in some 'book'... I will keep both hands in sight, on the steering wheel and indicate the position/location of the weapon verbally if/when asked... ignition/radio off. Why? 'Cause I've been there, done that. It's called 'courtesy'... which seems to evade most people these days. Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
There are good cops 'n bad cops 'n so-so cops... but most just want'a go home after their shift like anyone else. Being armed imparts a responsibility to the bearer that isn't written in any damn book... or law. Florida, being a CC only state (so far) does not permit the LEO to readily 'observe' the weapon. It is reasonable and prudent then... to 'advise' the LEO that you are armed... and legitimately so by presenting your CCW with your license 'n such when asked. Police do not like being surprised by the presence of a weapon. You can argue yer 'Rights' till the cows come home... and go off on all these 4A tangents... blah, blah, blah... but a simple courtesy will go a long way.
For the guy who wrote... "If I were in your shoes... I wouldn't worry about it. Firearms are common place..." Is an IDIOT with an alligator mouth overloadin' his hummin' bird ass. Guaranteed! That statement indicates he not only knows nothing... he doesn't suspect anything either. You couldn't fill his shoes... 'cept with what would run down your leg if you even thought about it.
The decision to reveal the presence of a firearm during a vehicle stop in Florida is a very personal one.
Your opinion is duly noted. Next time you're pulled over in Florida, do what you want.
But, please do not insult others that do not agree with your opinion.
IMO, it all depends on the situation. A 'normal' traffic stop, I keep my mouth shut, take the ticket and be on my way. If the situation is somehow not 'normal', like one time where I was stopped and had a mag on the passenger seat, I gave the LEO my CWFL as a courtesy. My choice. Someone else not want to do that, fine with me.
Another issue in Florida is that anyone 18 and over (not otherwise prohibited by law) can have handguns in the glovebox, console, in a holster under the seat, etc. (plus long guns anywhere in the car, including on your lap) without any permits/license. How do you handle that situation? For me, it's the same as above, it all depends on the situation.
I've done it differently in different situations. (I've even lied in a couple stops. LEO: Any guns in the car? - Me: "Nope". Not illegal in Florida. Based on my judgement of the situation, there was no way my pistol was ever going to be discovered on those stops, so I chose to lie, better than remaining silent, IMO. With these particular LEO's.)
Different strokes, for different folks.
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Sonora Rebel
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 07:41 pm |
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| If I have any weapons in the vehicle... I would tell them... and the location. 'Go reachin' for your Registration in the glovebox or center console with a pistol in it w/o prior knowledge by the LEO could have a bad ending. I grew up in North Central Florida... Seminole/Volusia County area. I don't envision goin' back. There's a lot of remote stretches of road there tho 'n some strange folks drivin' on 'em. It's not a game. Take it seriously.
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no carry permit ?
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 08:19 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Interesting to read the statements about how 'dangerous' some occupations may (or may not) be w/o ever having participated directly in either. When actually tasked with the actual performance of such... Police, Military, Firefighter or whatever... it's not 'academic'. It may mean your ass... literally.
Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
Police do not like being surprised by the presence of a weapon. You can argue yer 'Rights' till the cows come home... and go off on all these 4A tangents... blah, blah, blah... but a simple courtesy will go a long way.
For the guy who wrote... "If I were in your shoes... I wouldn't worry about it. Firearms are common place..." Is an IDIOT with an alligator mouth overloadin' his hummin' bird ass. Guaranteed! That statement indicates he not only knows nothing... he doesn't suspect anything either. You couldn't fill his shoes... 'cept with what would run down your leg if you even thought about it.
Fact: Police have the same on the job related injury/ death rates as cab & limo drivers. Ask any licenced life insurance agent to show you the actuary tables. Most will have them.
Everybody wants a confrontation ? I find that a ridiculous statement. Most open carry folks I know just want to be left alone. Most cops I know are always looking to start something over nothing, to exert their assumed "authority". Few law enforcement officers know much about the law they are supposed to be enforcing. Taking some uneducated, ex-soldier flunky exposing him to 85 hours of legal text review and expecting to have a competent professional is delusional.
With respect to the "idiot" YOU ARE THE IDIOT. The hummin bird/ alligatir line proves it.
P.S. Please learn to spell except, as "cept" is unceptable. 
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suntzu
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Posted: Wed Jan 14th, 2009 04:17 am |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Interesting to read the statements about how 'dangerous' some occupations may (or may not) be w/o ever having participated directly in either. When actually tasked with the actual performance of such... Police, Military, Firefighter or whatever... it's not 'academic'. It may mean your ass... literally.
No--really? I wouldn't have known that, and I thought the military was in Afghanistan and Iraq just on vacation....What you have with LE is a job that is MUCH less dangerous than the Army or the Marines have--what you have in most--NOT ALL, but unfortunately I would say the majority of them are LE who are soldier wannabes--and they prove it every day. They act like they are at war with us every day....
Nobody wears a halo indicating they're one of the 'good guys' inna traffic stop. Such stops are among the most dangerous of all police activities. You never know 'what you've got' 'til it happens. When I was in 'Nam on my first tour in '65... a 21 yr. old former classmate was gunned down on Eutaw St. (Baltimore City) in broad daylight by the driver of a car that was double parked (in traffic). He'd just graduated the Police Academy a few months prior. I'd been workin' explosive ordnance flight ops on the flight deck (mostly at night... in all weather... over most of the Oceans 'n Seas on Earth) for about 3 outta 5 years w/o a scratch.
Any Deputy, Ranger, Border Patrol, City Marshall or local cop stops me... I will volunteer that I'm armed, for their safety and mine. I care less what it says in some 'book'... I will keep both hands in sight, on the steering wheel and indicate the position/location of the weapon verbally if/when asked... ignition/radio off. Why? 'Cause I've been there, done that. It's called 'courtesy'... which seems to evade most people these days. Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
Whether you volunteer or not is your decision. However, I would say, based on your statement above that you really just don't care about the Constitutional Rights that you were given by people who risked their lives to obtain then for us. Perhaps you should reaquaint yourself with the Constitution and the first 10 Amendments in Particular--but also include in that the 14th Amendment...as these are ESSENTIAL to our liberty. Based on your statement I would say that you would do well in a society in which you were required to show your papers every time you had to pass through a checkpoint.
Courtesy? I'm all for that--but is it too much to ask that WE, the PEOPLE be shown some instead of having the police treat us like we are all criminals? I just want them to show me the same courtesy and the SAME respect that they want. If they want to know if I have a gun--all they have to do is ASK me-"sir, I see you have a permit--do you have your firearm on you today"? To which, if I was carrying I would reply "why yes officer I do and it is (whereever I have it that day), would you like to see my permit? A little courtesy goes both ways. CIVILITY goes both ways.
Let them show us a little CIVILITY, RESPECT and COURTESY--or is it LE alone who is worthy of this?
As far as a traffic stop goes--I say again--if they cannot handle the stress, and do their job and treat us with civility, and respect then they should find another job--because again, I see the Marines and the Army doing their job in Iraq and Afghanistan being shot at, blown up, and ambushed and I don't see them just mistreating the populations--OR is it that we can treat foreigners and prisoners of war better than we can our own people?
There are good cops 'n bad cops 'n so-so cops... but most just want'a go home after their shift like anyone else. Being armed imparts a responsibility to the bearer that isn't written in any damn book... or law. Florida, being a CC only state (so far) does not permit the LEO to readily 'observe' the weapon. It is reasonable and prudent then... to 'advise' the LEO that you are armed... and legitimately so by presenting your CCW with your license 'n such when asked. Police do not like being surprised by the presence of a weapon. You can argue yer 'Rights' till the cows come home... and go off on all these 4A tangents... blah, blah, blah... but a simple courtesy will go a long way.
It is neither wise nor prudent to advise a LEO you are armed unless you have done a no no for which you can be searched. When you advise a LEO that you are armed--you have absolutely NO idea how they are going to react--they may just stick a gun in your face and begin violating even more of your rights...and let's face it--some of them are just psychologically unstable. And I say again--nothing is ever done about the "bad apples" until they hurt or kill someone and it makes it into the public spotlight--then they have to do something to "prove they are on our side after all".
I say again--the Constitution and "yer rights" as you so elegantly put it are the only thing keeping us from being a fascist country just like Nazi Germany was, with the gestapo and the SS on every corner....you talk about the "rights" as you call them as if they are just some annoying little fly that you would like to step on...And you are right--simple courtesy can go an awful long way--so let them show us the same courtesy and the same respect....and let them treat us as equal citizens--meaning they are NO better than we are...
For the guy who wrote... "If I were in your shoes... I wouldn't worry about it. Firearms are common place..." Is an IDIOT with an alligator mouth overloadin' his hummin' bird ass. Guaranteed! That statement indicates he not only knows nothing... he doesn't suspect anything either. You couldn't fill his shoes... 'cept with what would run down your leg if you even thought about it.
Firearms ARE common place--even more so now. Not worrying about it--well that all depends on the situation does it not....I still say--if I see someone with a gun on--even in a walmart, target, kroger or whereever--if they are not bothering anyone, if they are minding their own business-- then why should anyone bother them? I could see a person with an AK walking by my home--as long as they minded their own business and kept their gun pointed in a safe direction I would do the same....I mind my own business, everyone else should do the same.
But again--you might just do well in a society that required you to pass through a checkpoint every 5-7 miles and to produce your papers every time you wanted to go into a public building....
"no sir--your papers are not in order"--as two guards escorted you to a cell.....
and my favorite "we have ways to make you talk"...right before they used "rough interrogation" techniques to get you to confess to some supposed crime....
Our rights are being taken from us and the sad thing is--a lot of this society either does not care, or does not realize what is happening right under their noses...How many rights can we afford to let them step on before we have none left?
If the founding fathers were alive today--they would hang their heads and cry at what has become of the country they helped to found and of the rights that we are so quick and so willing to give up in order to feel safe and secure...the rights they risked everything for.
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suntzu
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Posted: Wed Jan 14th, 2009 04:20 am |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
I personally don't want a confrontation--I just want to be left alone to live my life in peace. But if a confrontation is presented to me when I have not done anything--then I would be more than happy to file a lawsuit and press charges in order to bring the bad guys in line.
The law abiding people just want to be left alone and treated with civility and respect---that isn't too much to ask.
Last edited on Wed Jan 14th, 2009 04:23 am by suntzu
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SpringerXDacp
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Posted: Wed Jan 14th, 2009 04:28 am |
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Unfortunately, in Michigan, those who have a CPL and are carrying must disclose immediately to the officer. Even if we were not required to do so or I was traveling through a state that had reciprocity with Michigan, I would probably disclose to attempt to keep the tension at the traffic stop to a minimum.
If we are not carrying, there is no Michigan statue requiring disclosure.
ETA Keyword: attempt
Last edited on Wed Jan 14th, 2009 04:29 am by SpringerXDacp
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Gunslinger
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 05:41 pm |
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suntzu wrote: Sonora Rebel wrote: Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
I personally don't want a confrontation--I just want to be left alone to live my life in peace. But if a confrontation is presented to me when I have not done anything--then I would be more than happy to file a lawsuit and press charges in order to bring the bad guys in line.
The law abiding people just want to be left alone and treated with civility and respect---that isn't too much to ask.
I agree with you. If I'm stopped and have a concealed weapon in CO I have no duty to inform the cop. But I would. And I would have no duty to show my CCW, as CC in your vehicle in CO is completely legal--by statute, not lack of statute prohibiting, as to OC (save Denver County). I'd do it to show I am a good guy and increase my chance of not getting a ticket for speeding, which is the only reason I'd be likely to be stopped. If the cop was a dick, or the stop was unlawful, I'd take action against him, up to and including 18/42 USC process in Federal Court. If I got out of a ticket, it's worth it.
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mach116993
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 03:57 am |
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| robo leo you forget florida is also a castle doctrine state and open carry is legal in your castle!!!!!!!!
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Megadrone
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 11:58 pm |
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mach116993 wrote: robo leo you forget florida is also a castle doctrine state and open carry is legal in your castle!!!!!!!!
I have a CC permit. I carry every where I go. In Florida you are "Not" required to inform. Whether walking down the street or in your car. If the authority figure asks he/she must have probable cause and if he/she does not, you "Do Not" have to disclose. If it comes down to a frisking situation and he/she finds it. he/she is required by law to allow you "At this time" to disclose that you are carrying legally and present your carry permit. It's as easy as that. Ask the State Attorney General.
To all police:
If you are that afraid, then you need to find another job. People who have CC permits are law abiding citzens, the key word is "Citzen"
To mbpe912:
If you are truly a law enforcement officer, I agree with SGT Jensen, you are a dangerous individual and you need to be released from duty. It is officers like you that cause our children to be afraid of and not respect the law.
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brboyer
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 04:08 am |
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Megadrone wrote: mach116993 wrote: robo leo you forget florida is also a castle doctrine state and open carry is legal in your castle!!!!!!!!
I have a CC permit. I carry every where I go. In Florida you are "Not" required to inform. Whether walking down the street or in your car. If the authority figure asks he/she must have probable cause and if he/she does not, you "Do Not" have to disclose. If it comes down to a frisking situation and he/she finds it. he/she is required by law to allow you "At this time" to disclose that you are carrying legally and present your carry permit. It's as easy as that. Ask the State Attorney General.
To all police:
If you are that afraid, then you need to find another job. People who have CC permits are law abiding citzens, the key word is "Citzen"
To mbpe912:
If you are truly a law enforcement officer, I agree with SGT Jensen, you are a dangerous individual and you need to be released from duty. It is officers like you that cause our children to be afraid of and not respect the law.
In Florida, you are never, ever, required to inform anyone, under any circumstances!
You are only required to display your CWFL and ID if the LEO asks to see your CWFL. This is an important distinction. It must be something along the lines of "Let me see you Concealed Weapons and Firearm license", they must specifically ask to see it. It's not implied when they ask if you are carrying.
In a "typical" traffic stop (not a felony criminal investigation or missing persons case), if the LEO asks if you have any guns on you, "No" is a perfectly legal answer.
If it's reached the pat-down stage, the LEO must have had PC, not RS, but PC, to believe you are armed. If you acted normally and did not offer the information, there is no basis for a pat-down. Even if the LEO somehow discovers it, nothing illegal has taken place. You might be proned out on the pavement with a gun in your ear, but no laws have been broken.
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JSchu22
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 01:39 am |
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Some opinions expressed here, most notably against mbpe912, are what I think are counter productive to the law abiding gun owners cause. I know it's not everyone but so many have the "pry it from my cold, dead hand" mindset, which makes plenty of sense to you but can seem irrational to those who do not see our point of view. I'm saying this, and I know I could be wrong, but I get the impression that some view the mere suggestion of informing a LEO as violation of their rights. It's the narrow-minded view, without tolerance for other opinions, that can be extremely hurtful to that individuals goal. I would likely inform of my firearm but I can respect those that choose not to.
I will go on the record in saying I do not think that mbpe912's views are dangerous and would not call for him/her to reconsider their occupational choice. I think the problem here is that we are law abiding citizens and the suggestion of having a gun to our heads is appalling. You probably wouldn't have put yourself in that position to begin with as you likely would have had your firearm properly stored though. Imagine you are in the LEO's position and you see a firearm that has not been disclosed. While you're imagining that remember the job also requires you to come in frequent contact with individuals that aren't on the right side of the law. I wouldn't want to be lying face down on the pavement but I deserve it if I have a gun in plain-sight and I did not announce it.
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MEPDtoUSBP
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 02:49 am |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Interesting to read the statements about how 'dangerous' some occupations may (or may not) be w/o ever having participated directly in either. When actually tasked with the actual performance of such... Police, Military, Firefighter or whatever... it's not 'academic'. It may mean your ass... literally.
Nobody wears a halo indicating they're one of the 'good guys' inna traffic stop. Such stops are among the most dangerous of all police activities. You never know 'what you've got' 'til it happens. When I was in 'Nam on my first tour in '65... a 21 yr. old former classmate was gunned down on Eutaw St. (Baltimore City) in broad daylight by the driver of a car that was double parked (in traffic). He'd just graduated the Police Academy a few months prior. I'd been workin' explosive ordnance flight ops on the flight deck (mostly at night... in all weather... over most of the Oceans 'n Seas on Earth) for about 3 outta 5 years w/o a scratch.
Any Deputy, Ranger, Border Patrol, City Marshall or local cop stops me... I will volunteer that I'm armed, for their safety and mine. I care less what it says in some 'book'... I will keep both hands in sight, on the steering wheel and indicate the position/location of the weapon verbally if/when asked... ignition/radio off. Why? 'Cause I've been there, done that. It's called 'courtesy'... which seems to evade most people these days. Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
There are good cops 'n bad cops 'n so-so cops... but most just want'a go home after their shift like anyone else. Being armed imparts a responsibility to the bearer that isn't written in any damn book... or law. Florida, being a CC only state (so far) does not permit the LEO to readily 'observe' the weapon. It is reasonable and prudent then... to 'advise' the LEO that you are armed... and legitimately so by presenting your CCW with your license 'n such when asked. Police do not like being surprised by the presence of a weapon. You can argue yer 'Rights' till the cows come home... and go off on all these 4A tangents... blah, blah, blah... but a simple courtesy will go a long way.
For the guy who wrote... "If I were in your shoes... I wouldn't worry about it. Firearms are common place..." Is an IDIOT with an alligator mouth overloadin' his hummin' bird ass. Guaranteed! That statement indicates he not only knows nothing... he doesn't suspect anything either. You couldn't fill his shoes... 'cept with what would run down your leg if you even thought about it.
As an LEO...I say thank you. That is the right thing to do in my opinion. Even as an LEO, if I am stopped, I disclose as well. It just prevents surprises and hassles.
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 01:11 pm |
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Any Deputy, Ranger, Border Patrol, City Marshall or local cop stops me... I will volunteer that I'm armed, for their safety and mine. I care less what it says in some 'book'... I will keep both hands in sight, on the steering wheel and indicate the position/location of the weapon verbally if/when asked... ignition/radio off. Why? 'Cause I've been there, done that. It's called 'courtesy'... which seems to evade most people these days. Everybody wants a confrontation... 'til they get it.
If the cop wants courtesy, he shouldn't pull me over.
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 01:19 pm |
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JSchu22 wrote: Some opinions expressed here, most notably against mbpe912, are what I think are counter productive to the law abiding gun owners cause.
"Law-abiding" is an empty phrase.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
-Thomas Jefferson
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Glock23shooter
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Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 05:34 am |
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You do not have to have a CCP/CCW to have any firearm in your vehicle loaded or unloaded!
Most LEO's would perfered it was encase, anywhere in your vehicle is fine but just inform them if your reaching at a spot or if they ask let them know where it is at and if it's loaded or unloaded! There shouldn't be any hassle or problem the worse thing that can happen is they take your gun and run it up!
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timf343
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 11:48 pm |
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I happened to see an episode of COPS the other day from somewhere in Florida where a man disclosed the presence of his legal firearm, and the LEO said that gave him probable cause to search the entire vehicle. The man was arrested for carrying drugs found during this search. I don't think such a search was legal.....does the presence of a firearm give LEO probable cause to search?
If the presence of a firearm gives the LEO probable cause in Florida, I suggest you do NOT tell the police about the presence of a weapon. If he asks, and almost certainly will, just say "I want my lawyer before you ask me any questions." and that will force him to stop asking you. But do yourself a favor and keep the gun in a place OTHER than where you keep your paperwork.
Tim
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Taco
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Posted: Fri Apr 17th, 2009 01:10 am |
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timf343 wrote: I happened to see an episode of COPS the other day from somewhere in Florida where a man disclosed the presence of his legal firearm, and the LEO said that gave him probable cause to search the entire vehicle. The man was arrested for carrying drugs found during this search. I don't think such a search was legal.....does the presence of a firearm give LEO probable cause to search?
If the presence of a firearm gives the LEO probable cause in Florida, I suggest you do NOT tell the police about the presence of a weapon. If he asks, and almost certainly will, just say "I want my lawyer before you ask me any questions." and that will force him to stop asking you. But do yourself a favor and keep the gun in a place OTHER than where you keep your paperwork.
Tim
Are you sure it wasn't in California, as that *exact* thing happened on an episode in California. He ended up finding a loaded tube-fed .22. Each loaded round added to the charge. I beleve it turned to a felony with the 11th .22.
In Florida a firearm is not probable cause to search. However, any firearm 'within reach' can be secured by the officer for his/her safety. This does mean he can go get it anywhere in the passenger compartment, provided you tell him where it is. That does not give carte blanche search ability for the vehicle.
On a side note (because it was on Cops), if you are on probation or parole (as many who appear on Cops appear to be) the ability to search is greatly increased.
I vote to hand over the CCW. Why? Beats the heck out of the 'surprising' if I shift awkwardly and expose the bottom of my holster. Other than the possibility of getting an  ... and then getting some of your time wasted (followed by the ticket you normally would have received), you may get a  followed by a have a nice day.
P.S. Without a CCW in Florida the firearm must be securely encased in your vehicle. This does not mean actually encased, more of a 'you have to do something prior to grabbing the firearm, and the firearm is unable to be fired prior to doing said action'. For example: unsnap a holster (snapped holster is mentioned in the statute), unzip a purse, open a center console, open a govebox, grab from a shoebox with top on. It also can not be on your person, and must be concealed. With a CCW, you just have to keep it concealed.
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