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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 07:44 am |
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The next to last segment had them contacting a group of mixed-gender 20 something African Americans having a tailgate party. They asked what they did for a living, one guy said construction, one gal said nursing school... then they focus on the non-chatty guy in the bunch.
It seems as if they forced him to ID himself verbally after he said he had no ID. He lied about his name and DOB, and they took his cellphone and tricked his mom into giving up his name. He had a 2-page long history of burglaries and booking photos, and they arrested him for obstruction/false ID. No mention of probation or parole status.
No RAS or PC to arrest him or anyone else in the party, seemingly nobody else gets asked for ID, and he goes to jail. If he had remained silent, it seems they still would have taken his cellphone and gotten his name, and charged him with refusal to ID.
So the questions are:
1) Is there an unconstitutional/unchallenged stop and ID statute absent RAS or PC for everyone in FL?
or
2) Are ex-cons required to ID by statute, no matter what?
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 12:39 pm |
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N6ATF wrote: It seems as if they forced him to ID himself verbally after he said he had no ID. He lied about his name and DOB, and they took his cellphone and tricked his mom into giving up his name. He had a 2-page long history of burglaries and booking photos, and they arrested him for obstruction/false ID. No mention of probation or parole status.
No RAS or PC to arrest him or anyone else in the party, seemingly nobody else gets asked for ID, and he goes to jail. If he had remained silent, it seems they still would have taken his cellphone and gotten his name, and charged him with refusal to ID.
So the questions are:
1) Is there an unconstitutional/unchallenged stop and ID statute absent RAS or PC for everyone in FL?
or
2) Are ex-cons required to ID by statute, no matter what?
Wow, more cops who need to spend a very long time in jail. It's bad in Florida. The cops are enemies of America here.
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Japle
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | Viera, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 09:44 pm |
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"Officer, is this a Terry stop? Am I suspected of committing a crime?
No? Thanks for your time, I'll be on my way."
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 01:06 am |
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Japle wrote: "Officer, is this a Terry stop? Am I suspected of committing a crime?
No? Thanks for your time, I'll be on my way."
Bang. Dead.
Welcome to Florida.
The cops will kill you, and the stultified poenamates will cheer your demise.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/033214.html
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hammer6
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 124 |
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Offline
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Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 06:54 am |
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smoking357 wrote: N6ATF wrote: It seems as if they forced him to ID himself verbally after he said he had no ID. He lied about his name and DOB, and they took his cellphone and tricked his mom into giving up his name. He had a 2-page long history of burglaries and booking photos, and they arrested him for obstruction/false ID. No mention of probation or parole status.
No RAS or PC to arrest him or anyone else in the party, seemingly nobody else gets asked for ID, and he goes to jail. If he had remained silent, it seems they still would have taken his cellphone and gotten his name, and charged him with refusal to ID.
So the questions are:
1) Is there an unconstitutional/unchallenged stop and ID statute absent RAS or PC for everyone in FL?
or
2) Are ex-cons required to ID by statute, no matter what?
Wow, more cops who need to spend a very long time in jail. It's bad in Florida. The cops are enemies of America here.
hahahaha- i just watched that and thought the same thing!!!
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GIdeon_70
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 35 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:10 am |
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901.151 Stop and Frisk Law.--
(1) This section may be known and cited as the "Florida Stop and Frisk Law."
(2) Whenever any law enforcement officer of this state encounters any person under circumstances which reasonably indicate that such person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a violation of the criminal laws of this state or the criminal ordinances of any municipality or county, the officer may temporarily detain such person for the purpose of ascertaining the identity of the person temporarily detained and the circumstances surrounding the person's presence abroad which led the officer to believe that the person had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a criminal offense.
(3) No person shall be temporarily detained under the provisions of subsection (2) longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of that subsection. Such temporary detention shall not extend beyond the place where it was first effected or the immediate vicinity thereof.
(4) If at any time after the onset of the temporary detention authorized by subsection (2), probable cause for arrest of person shall appear, the person shall be arrested. If, after an inquiry into the circumstances which prompted the temporary detention, no probable cause for the arrest of the person shall appear, the person shall be released.
(5) Whenever any law enforcement officer authorized to detain temporarily any person under the provisions of subsection (2) has probable cause to believe that any person whom the officer has temporarily detained, or is about to detain temporarily, is armed with a dangerous weapon and therefore offers a threat to the safety of the officer or any other person, the officer may search such person so temporarily detained only to the extent necessary to disclose, and for the purpose of disclosing, the presence of such weapon. If such a search discloses such a weapon or any evidence of a criminal offense it may be seized.
(6) No evidence seized by a law enforcement officer in any search under this section shall be admissible against any person in any court of this state or political subdivision thereof unless the search which disclosed its existence was authorized by and conducted in compliance with the provisions of subsections (2)-(5).
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ABNinfantryman
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 13 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:49 pm |
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smoking357 wrote: Japle wrote: "Officer, is this a Terry stop? Am I suspected of committing a crime?
No? Thanks for your time, I'll be on my way."
Bang. Dead.
Welcome to Florida.
The cops will kill you, and the stultified poenamates will cheer your demise.
Hmmm glad I'm active duty Army then. I've never had a problem with the cops in Florida, it's one of the best states to visit for soldiers because of how many cops there are former military men or have family members who are/were. Can't wait to move back after my enlistment's up.
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Japle
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | Viera, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 01:45 pm |
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Always happy to have prior service here in Florida.
The idea that the cops will shoot you for no reason is absurd.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 01:52 pm |
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Japle wrote: Always happy to have prior service here in Florida.
The idea that the cops will shoot you for no reason is absurd.
I think that ole smoking357 was prone to exaggeration....
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JeepSeller
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Apr 21st, 2009 |
| Location: | Orlando, FL |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:29 pm |
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HankT wrote: Japle wrote: Always happy to have prior service here in Florida.
The idea that the cops will shoot you for no reason is absurd.
I think that ole smoking357 was prone to exaggeration....
Major understantement there! 
Seriously, all smokingwhatever's posts really should be plain bounced as he was. There's nothing of substance in anything he said and his posts are chock full of these kind of exaggerations, over generalizations and just plain bad advice. Before someone new comes along and gets themselves hurt following his advice, really, I personally think his entire post history should be erased.
I'm normally pretty rabid against that kind of censorship, but, that guy seriously posted some whacked out %$#@ that really gives this group bad mojo !! 
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brboyer
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:35 pm |
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GIdeon_70 wrote:
901.151 Stop and Frisk Law.--
(1) This section may be known and cited as the "Florida Stop and Frisk Law."
(2) Whenever any law enforcement officer of this state encounters any person under circumstances which reasonably indicate that such person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a violation of the criminal laws of this state or the criminal ordinances of any municipality or county, the officer may temporarily detain such person for the purpose of ascertaining the identity of the person temporarily detained and the circumstances surrounding the person's presence abroad which led the officer to believe that the person had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a criminal offense.
(3) No person shall be temporarily detained under the provisions of subsection (2) longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of that subsection. Such temporary detention shall not extend beyond the place where it was first effected or the immediate vicinity thereof.
(4) If at any time after the onset of the temporary detention authorized by subsection (2), probable cause for arrest of person shall appear, the person shall be arrested. If, after an inquiry into the circumstances which prompted the temporary detention, no probable cause for the arrest of the person shall appear, the person shall be released.
(5) Whenever any law enforcement officer authorized to detain temporarily any person under the provisions of subsection (2) has probable cause to believe that any person whom the officer has temporarily detained, or is about to detain temporarily, is armed with a dangerous weapon and therefore offers a threat to the safety of the officer or any other person, the officer may search such person so temporarily detained only to the extent necessary to disclose, and for the purpose of disclosing, the presence of such weapon. If such a search discloses such a weapon or any evidence of a criminal offense it may be seized.
(6) No evidence seized by a law enforcement officer in any search under this section shall be admissible against any person in any court of this state or political subdivision thereof unless the search which disclosed its existence was authorized by and conducted in compliance with the provisions of subsections (2)-(5).
This is an unconstitutional portion of the law. It does not comport to the Terry decision's "Armed and presently dangerous" language, it makes the assumption that armed = dangerous.
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:49 am by brboyer
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fridaddy
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 18th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 36 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 07:33 pm |
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http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d9-Federal-judge-rules-police-cannot-detain-people-for-openly-carrying-guns
This is a case that would support an argument that the cited statute is unconstitutional, but it is not binding on FL.
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ABNinfantryman
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:24 am |
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Japle wrote: Always happy to have prior service here in Florida.
The idea that the cops will shoot you for no reason is absurd.
Not in California. Now that's a police state. Florida though? My wife who's from Boston originally and lived in most of the major cities of the US says she's never felt as laid back around cops as she is with the ones in Florida. They're generally very polite and very professional and don't tend to harass the populace, at least in my experience. Around the colleges yeah they're a little more rigid.
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GIdeon_70
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 05:13 am |
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ABNinfantryman wrote: Japle wrote: Always happy to have prior service here in Florida.
The idea that the cops will shoot you for no reason is absurd.
Not in California. Now that's a police state. Florida though? My wife who's from Boston originally and lived in most of the major cities of the US says she's never felt as laid back around cops as she is with the ones in Florida. They're generally very polite and very professional and don't tend to harass the populace, at least in my experience. Around the colleges yeah they're a little more rigid.
As with anywhere, you are going to find good ones and bad ones. Cops have to have a professional detachment, and that can be taken as arrogance sometimes, but it is part of the job. On the other hand, I've seen cops in Texas who were long time Good ole Boys Club, True Blue, don't piss me off or I will jack you up for life - and I hear that the bigger cities are even worse sometimes.
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ABNinfantryman
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:53 am |
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Los Angeles is a nightmare when it comes to unprofessional police. They really have a difficult time discerning between South Central and Hollywood.
Anywho, on the topic of them looking into the kid who was silent, I'm all about the constitution, I fight fiercely for our rights even when they don't work in my favor or to my liking, but after having seen every day "police brutality" in Europe and South West Asia, I have an all new respect for the rights we do enjoy. You haven't lived until you've been beaten with multiple ASP batons by German Polizei for pissing on the side of a subway train during Oktoberfest. 
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N6ATF
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 07:00 am |
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ABNinfantryman wrote: Los Angeles is a nightmare when it comes to unprofessional police. They really have a difficult time discerning between South Central and Hollywood.
Anywho, on the topic of them looking into the kid who was silent, I'm all about the constitution, I fight fiercely for our rights even when they don't work in my favor or to my liking, but after having seen every day "police brutality" in Europe and South West Asia, I have an all new respect for the rights we do enjoy. You haven't lived until you've been beaten with multiple ASP batons by German Polizei for pissing on the side of a subway train during Oktoberfest.
If it was moving, you should have gotten a medal. That takes BALLS.
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ABNinfantryman
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 07:43 am |
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N6ATF wrote:
"If it was moving, you should have gotten a medal. That takes BALLS."
It was, and you should've seen the look on the face of the woman who was nose to nose with me when it stopped.  And I wouldn't say it was balls, just lots and lots of quality German fest beer. Good times, good times. I just wish I had the picture of me balancing on a Jersey barrier holding the keg above my head. Representing America one drunken night at a time!
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jdgypsy
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | Meridian, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 149 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:07 pm |
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ABNinfantryman wrote: Los Angeles is a nightmare when it comes to unprofessional police. They really have a difficult time discerning between South Central and Hollywood.
Anywho, on the topic of them looking into the kid who was silent, I'm all about the constitution, I fight fiercely for our rights even when they don't work in my favor or to my liking, but after having seen every day "police brutality" in Europe and South West Asia, I have an all new respect for the rights we do enjoy. You haven't lived until you've been beaten with multiple ASP batons by German Polizei for pissing on the side of a subway train during Oktoberfest.
Ahhhhh the "Beater Repeater" I hated that damn thing. They hit you once and it would sort of reverberate and hit you again. Kind of funny actually.
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SlackwareRobert
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | Alabama |
| Posts: | 962 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:23 pm |
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But hey, you must admit the good beer does make it so you don't feel the first hit.
I miss the beer tent brawls myself at times. But mostly the 50-100 mark bills
you find walking the parking areas at 4am. Drunks and car keys were a great
income source. Dare I say TAX FREE!
Was the 'alleged victim' on parole? If he was then he doesn't have all our rights.
Could have been that I-95 cop who can sniff out a crook at a 1000 paces.
Looks like mom need more situational training when he gets out next time.
Why she wasn't questioning how the caller came to have her sons cell, and
order it returned or she will call the police and report the theft.
Why didn't he have his cell phone locked so they couldn't use it?
Looks like another crooks are stupid segment from the FL archives, I can't get
to riled up as he did lie about his identity, just remain silent and let them break
the law. You would think that after enough trips through the system he
would learn what to do and say when confronted. How hard is 'say nothing' to learn?
He doesn't even have a permit to worry about loosing by raising the ire of
the local storm troopers.
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