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AEubanks
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| Location: | Stafford, VA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:55 am |
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I am trying to find out from some locals on what seems to be a rather gray area to me (I am trying to find out for my older sister who recently moved from GA to Orlando).
Reading FL Statute Title XLVI, Chapter 790, Paragraph 5 it says that a pistol can be "securely encased" (among other things);
790.001 Definitions - has (17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
My gray area is the "snapped in a holster." Does this mean that it would have to have a holster that something physically comes over the back end of the weapon (for instance a leather strap that wraps around the back side of the grip and snaps on the holster), or would a SERPA holster work where nothing actually coves the back end of the pistol, but it does snap into place?
I know, you are not lawyers and you can only give me your best interpretation, but I know my interpretation, I just wonder since I am not there, what do people in the area do. She will be getting her concealed license there if that makes any difference.
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mbpe912
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:18 pm |
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| The Serpa CQC holser with the lock, where you have to use your trigger finger to release the gun will work just fine. It just has to have a retention decvice. Now it can't be on her person or conceled about her person if she doesn't have a CCW permit.
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AEubanks
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:32 pm |
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But she will be fine to have it in a holster say in the passenger seat when she is in the car? (and just lock it in the glove box when she isn't in the car)?
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mbpe912
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:39 pm |
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| yes as lock as it is in plain view, while she is in the car (if it is going to be out) otherwise like you posted earlier it should be in the glove or center console.
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brboyer
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 08:41 pm |
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AEubanks wrote: But she will be fine to have it in a holster say in the passenger seat when she is in the car? (and just lock it in the glove box when she isn't in the car)?
Passenger seat would be legal, but possibly not wise. What happens to loose items in a crash?
She can also keep it in the closed console/glove box the whole time and not need a locking type holster. Or if she has a purse that zips closed, that would also be legal while in the car.
A more secure method of securing it in the car (other than a locked glove-box) would be advisable.
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David59
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 11:32 pm |
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| Is a retention holster required in Florida while carrying?
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brboyer
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:46 am |
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David59 wrote: Is a retention holster required in Florida while carrying?
No holster requirement at all.
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AEubanks
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:11 am |
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brboyer wrote: Passenger seat would be legal, but possibly not wise. What happens to loose items in a crash?
She can also keep it in the closed console/glove box the whole time and not need a locking type holster. Or if she has a purse that zips closed, that would also be legal while in the car.
A more secure method of securing it in the car (other than a locked glove-box) would be advisable.
Yeah, here in VA it has to be in plain sight when in the car so a lot of people have a holster buckled in the passenger seat belt just in case of a wreck. (which would be the same advice I'd give her).
Glove box isn't quick enough access if you really needed it....
Would a purse that jus has like one magnetic type snap in the center work? Or does i have to be completely zipped?
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brboyer
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:41 am |
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AEubanks wrote: brboyer wrote: Passenger seat would be legal, but possibly not wise. What happens to loose items in a crash?
She can also keep it in the closed console/glove box the whole time and not need a locking type holster. Or if she has a purse that zips closed, that would also be legal while in the car.
A more secure method of securing it in the car (other than a locked glove-box) would be advisable.
Yeah, here in VA it has to be in plain sight when in the car so a lot of people have a holster buckled in the passenger seat belt just in case of a wreck. (which would be the same advice I'd give her).
Glove box isn't quick enough access if you really needed it....
Would a purse that jus has like one magnetic type snap in the center work? Or does i have to be completely zipped?
That's a good idea, and would be legal in Florida. You could even cover it to keep prying eyes from seeing it. Since it is securely encased, you could then conceal it (or not) and be legal.
I think a magnetic snap would qualify as long as the portion that is not snapped would not permit her to reach in and remove (or fire from within) without operating the snap.
Also, she would not be permitted to have the firearm in her purse outside of the vehicle, unless on her own property at home or at work (or range, or camping, fishing, hunting, etc.)
All-in-all, until she gets her CWFL in Florida, a Serpa holster belted in the passenger seat (possibly covered with a towel or something) would work out just fine.
FYI, IANAL!
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GIdeon_70
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 11:51 pm |
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mbpe912 wrote: The Serpa CQC holser with the lock, where you have to use your trigger finger to release the gun will work just fine. It just has to have a retention decvice. Now it can't be on her person or conceled about her person if she doesn't have a CCW permit.
I agree about concealed on her person, but there is no portion of the law that prevents her from openly carrying it on her person while IN the car, that I can see.
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brboyer
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 12:11 am |
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GIdeon_70 wrote: mbpe912 wrote: The Serpa CQC holser with the lock, where you have to use your trigger finger to release the gun will work just fine. It just has to have a retention decvice. Now it can't be on her person or conceled about her person if she doesn't have a CCW permit.
I agree about concealed on her person, but there is no portion of the law that prevents her from openly carrying it on her person while IN the car, that I can see.
That is the way I read it, but several lawyers have pointed out another interpretation of 790.25(5):
POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
The adjective 'concealed' applies to the noun 'Firearm', but not 'other weapon'.
So without a CWFL, you cannot carry a concealed firearm, or any other weapon (openly or concealed) on your person in an automobile.
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GIdeon_70
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:30 am |
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brboyer wrote: GIdeon_70 wrote: mbpe912 wrote: The Serpa CQC holser with the lock, where you have to use your trigger finger to release the gun will work just fine. It just has to have a retention decvice. Now it can't be on her person or conceled about her person if she doesn't have a CCW permit.
I agree about concealed on her person, but there is no portion of the law that prevents her from openly carrying it on her person while IN the car, that I can see.
That is the way I read it, but several lawyers have pointed out another interpretation of 790.25(5):
POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
The adjective 'concealed' applies to the noun 'Firearm', but not 'other weapon'.
So without a CWFL, you cannot carry a concealed firearm, or any other weapon (openly or concealed) on your person in an automobile.
(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
Concealed fiarearm is a term used in law, that has specific meaning and definition. It does not say openly carried, or carried on the person except in the instance that it is concealed. If you remove the words firearm, then it would read, "shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon on the person" and it still does not address openly carried weapons.
When it says clearly that 790.053 does not apply, then they opened the door to open carry in a private conveyance. I DO open carry in my car at times, but have not been stopped openly carrying.
Perhaps someone can write a representative and ask for clarification?
but, rember, I am not a lawyer, and can only talk about what I see and read.
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AEubanks
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 03:19 am |
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I wrote the state looking for clarification, I will let you know if I hear anything back.
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batch
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:48 pm |
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I have split bench seats in my truck. There is a little loop that I can slide the holsters retention spring into. That and the pressure between the two seats holds the firearm securely. I cover the weapon with a cloth similar in size to a wash cloth.
I decided I wanted to keep the gun there and carry a separate one concealed. So, I bought a thumb break holster for an old carry gun. That way if someone else drives the truck they are legal.
I usually take the gun out of the truck. But, in case I forget (which I have done). I don't expose my wife, kids or friends to charges.
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DANNiE
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Posted: Thu Nov 19th, 2009 09:53 am |
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Its all BS tell her get the permit..!
The law is there it is written but it wont save you any time out of jail or any money to be found innocent...
Its all a catch 22 and is BS... Its there and clear... however its simple; even if the firearm is "Securely Encased" if it is "Readily Accessable" it is illegal...
the best/worst place to have the firearm is in the glove box... Its best there if your being stoped by a cop its the worst if your being held up by a car jacker and they yank you out of the car now they not only have your car but your gun too..!
thank florida law for being so complex and virtually useless...
I always argued that "Concealed weapon" is its own definition and that "Securely Encased" is its own definition and because the 2 are opposite eachother it can only be one or the other and not both...
for instance if you have a hand gun in your waist band its a concealed weapon because it is readily accessable for "immediate use" aka guilty
but if it is "securely encased" and on you or around you in a private conveyance one would think you are innocent but your not aka guilty
Signed
Doughty v. State
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