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563
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Boise, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 220 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 03:45 am |
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Speaking of which, Maybe I was lucky? but I wrote to them as well, and they responded to me a few days ago.
"Dear Mr. XXXXXX
My name is Larry Read and I am the owner of Lee Read Jewelers, Sarah Read is my daughter. Lee Read Jewelers, its owners and management (including Sarah Read) believe that any citizen has the right to own and bear arms if they choose. As with many businesses we choose to ask individuals to leave their fire arms outside our store.
Thanks again for letting me know your thoughts,
Larry Read
President
Lee Read Jewelers Inc"
I almosted deleted it, as it appeared in my box as "Guest Services" rather than Lee Read.
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IndianaBoy79
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| Joined: | Thu Dec 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 328 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:11 am |
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ROFL I believe in your right to be (black, gay, christian, jewish, a gun owner, physically handicapped, deaf, blind, indigent, insert class here), just do it the hell somewhere else! 
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guyoliver2002
Activist Member
| Joined: | Tue Aug 5th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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I am frankly disappointed in the incident as it is described here. It's acceptable for you to openly carry a firearm where it's legal to do so, in the course of your daily business. I also think it's acceptable to educate the public about the fact that they have nothing to fear from law-abiding citizens who do so. I support the open carry movement completely and I like most of what I see.
Here's the thing, though: just as you have a right to carry a firearm on your person in a legally prescribed manner, private property and business owners also have the right to ban weapons on their premises. In the case you described, you were forcing the business owner to choose between customers who are still uncomfortable with firearms and customers who openly carry them.
Admittedly, the fear and discomfort these people experience is unfounded and has everything to do with the fact that the open carry phenomenon is a new one. People will have to be slowly reconditioned to the idea that today our culture is (sadly) what I call "the new west". The old west was, in some places, very violent and in most places law enforcement resources were scarce, so many people carried instruments of self defense as a necessity. Then for a time the U.S. was, by-and-large peaceful. Violent home invasions and public mass murder were were virtually unheard of. Today, such things occur on a weekly basis and criminals are increasingly more brazen—so people are taking matters into their own hands. I support that action.
But what I read suggested to me that you were either seeking or at the very least inviting a confrontation—and that’s not useful. I think the goal is to demonstrate that we’re just like everyone else, and for that reason I’d like suggest an alternative course of action.
When the nice lady informed you that some of the other customers are uncomfortable because of your weapon, apologize to her and be understanding of the situation that’s been thrust upon her. Politely assert you’re right to carry a sidearm and then explain that you carry it only for self defense. Reassure her that you in no way intend to alarm anyone, especially her customers. Then ask if you can return at another time, or simply and politely thank her for her time and leave.
Remember: if you’re going to educate people about the open carry movement, you must be a goodwill ambassador. If you aren’t a goodwill ambassador, you reinforce the idea in the minds of some people that your goal is simply to display your weapon for your own ego.
And by the way, I’m glad you are taking responsibility for your own security.
Guy
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cwp
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| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 7 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 09:02 pm |
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guyoliver2002 wrote:
Here's the thing, though: just as you have a right to carry a firearm on your person in a legally prescribed manner, private property and business owners also have the right to ban weapons on their premises. In the case you described, you were forcing the business owner to choose between customers who are still uncomfortable with firearms and customers who openly carry them.
Actually, I think you have what business owners want you to think, Article XI, section 8 of the Idaho constitution (Article XI deals with corporations)
| [quote]SECTION 8. RIGHT OF EMINENT DOMAIN AND POLICE POWER RESERVED. The right of eminent domain shall never be abridged, nor so construed as to prevent the legislature from taking the property and franchises of incorporated companies, and subjecting them to public use, the same as the property of individuals; and the police powers of the state shall never be abridged or so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe the equal rights of individuals, or the general well being of the state.[/quote] |
Read the last part, "corporations are not allowed to conduct their business in such a manner as to infringe on the equal rights of individuals".
You may do that in your private home, corporations are not supposed to do that.
If the AG, Governor, etc will not enforce this, what else is the individual supposed to do, I think a boycott is a good thing in such a situation.
--Carl
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guyoliver2002
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| Joined: | Tue Aug 5th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 09:25 pm |
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Well the Idaho Constitution says what it says, and I am also a believer in states rights--so more power to you. I'm a resident of Austin, Texas and am envious of the fact that can openly carry a sidearm in Idaho (imagine wearing a blazer to conceal your weapon when it's 105 degrees with 50% humdity).
I stand behind my comment though: it's important to avoid confrontation in a situation like the one that was described. We're all human beings and we all need to feel understood. Most Americans have only seen "a man with a gun" during the commision of a crime. Feeling unsafe is now the pavlovic response of most people to someone without a uniform or a badge carrying a weapon, which I guess is why the Texas law is written as it is.
Thanks for pointing out your enlightened constitution. Perhaps we in Texas could learn a few things from you folks.
Guy
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Saint
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 272 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 11:28 pm |
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guyoliver2002 wrote: Well the Idaho Constitution says what it says, and I am also a believer in states rights--so more power to you. I'm a resident of Austin, Texas and am envious of the fact that can openly carry a sidearm in Idaho (imagine wearing a blazer to conceal your weapon when it's 105 degrees with 50% humdity).
I stand behind my comment though: it's important to avoid confrontation in a situation like the one that was described. We're all human beings and we all need to feel understood. Most Americans have only seen "a man with a gun" during the commision of a crime. Feeling unsafe is now the pavlovic response of most people to someone without a uniform or a badge carrying a weapon, which I guess is why the Texas law is written as it is.
Thanks for pointing out your enlightened constitution. Perhaps we in Texas could learn a few things from you folks.
Guy
I am confused as to why you believe confrontation is a bad approach.
Lee Reed is a business and if they choose to ban weapons that is their right.
Just as it is my right as a consumer to choose not to give my money to a business that does not recognize my fundamental rights.
It is also my right as a consumer to let other people know when a business has done something that is either good or bad in the mind of the customer so that other customers may make their own decisions regarding whether or not they will complete transactions with the said business.
I was polite to both Sarah and Mike in my conversation with them. I explained to them that although it is their right to ban my firearm, I would not in turn support their business by spending my money their or by recommending them to other people.
If you do not believe this tactic works, look around on this forum until you find the threads about either Sportsmans Warehouse, Cabellas, or Walmart. All are organizations that have changed their corporate policies to allow OC at their stores after pressure from the gun rights movement.
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vinnie
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 38 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 01:50 am |
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Go to a pawn shop. (Vista pawn and first national used to be good) find a great "antique" or "Classic" ring. Take the ring to hendersons on glendale and have it sized and repronged if needed, they will give you a nice box too.
Haggle at the pawn shop.
spend extra 2 grand on matching guns.
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IndianaBoy79
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| Joined: | Thu Dec 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 328 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 01:59 am |
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vinnie wrote: spend extra 2 grand on matching guns.
Would look GREAT with the matching "him and her" towel and holster set.
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guyoliver2002
Activist Member
| Joined: | Tue Aug 5th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 03:43 pm |
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Look; I don't want to argue or impune you or anyone else for exercising your right to carry a weapon anywhere you choose, or your right to free speech as you express your opinion as a consumer to your vendor of choice. That really wasn't my point. I'm always in favor of a conversation.
Furthermore, I wasn't at Lee's when you were there, so the honest truth is that I only know what happened based on your post. Regarding your confusion, I believe clarity can be found in my first post.
Based solely on the description, I inferred that your discussion was disruptive to Lee's business, and that Sarah was put in an awkward position. I think that a follow-up letter to Lee would have been more appropriate, because this wasn't a person on the street who wanted to debate the issue; this was a woman who was trying to run a business. I just think that we have an obligation to recondition people to the handgun as a common self defense tool gently rather than abruptly.
If you believe the way you handled situation appropriately, I'm not in a position to say otherwise. Let me just offer that I discovered your post when I was doing a Google search on Open Carry, and found this little gem
"There is some 19 year-old kid in the Idaho OpenCarry.org forums who makes it a point to go to area businesses with a Glock on his hip in order to get a rise out of people. There appears to be a group of Open Carry members who go to business with the sole intention of creating a scene.
When you read through the forums it becomes even more obvious that they want people to see that they are carrying a firearm. It's not about exercising freedoms or protecting themselves from toothless, cracked out, rusty knife welding attackers, it's about people noticing them -- it's about ego."
at this URL:
http://unequivocalnotion.typepad.com/blog/2008/07/open-carry-is-t.html
The author, who doesn't appear to be anti-gun, drew the conclusion that you were seeking a confrontation. If the people who were "uncomfortable" in Lee's Jewelry also drew that inference, they will probably be less likely to support your right to carry in the future.
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Saint
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 272 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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guyoliver2002 wrote: Look; I don't want to argue or impune you or anyone else for exercising your right to carry a weapon anywhere you choose, or your right to free speech as you express your opinion as a consumer to your vendor of choice. That really wasn't my point. I'm always in favor of a conversation.
Furthermore, I wasn't at Lee's when you were there, so the honest truth is that I only know what happened based on your post. Regarding your confusion, I believe clarity can be found in my first post.
Based solely on the description, I inferred that your discussion was disruptive to Lee's business, and that Sarah was put in an awkward position. I think that a follow-up letter to Lee would have been more appropriate, because this wasn't a person on the street who wanted to debate the issue; this was a woman who was trying to run a business. I just think that we have an obligation to recondition people to the handgun as a common self defense tool gently rather than abruptly.
If you believe the way you handled situation appropriately, I'm not in a position to say otherwise. Let me just offer that I discovered your post when I was doing a Google search on Open Carry, and found this little gem
"There is some 19 year-old kid in the Idaho OpenCarry.org forums who makes it a point to go to area businesses with a Glock on his hip in order to get a rise out of people. There appears to be a group of Open Carry members who go to business with the sole intention of creating a scene.
When you read through the forums it becomes even more obvious that they want people to see that they are carrying a firearm. It's not about exercising freedoms or protecting themselves from toothless, cracked out, rusty knife welding attackers, it's about people noticing them -- it's about ego."
at this URL:
http://unequivocalnotion.typepad.com/blog/2008/07/open-carry-is-t.html
The author, who doesn't appear to be anti-gun, drew the conclusion that you were seeking a confrontation. If the people who were "uncomfortable" in Lee's Jewelry also drew that inference, they will probably be less likely to support your right to carry in the future.
The author is anti gun and has been been linked to on other threads for his anti-OC tirades.
People were not uncomfortable or uneasy when my friend and I were in Lee Reed. The associate who helped us at first told us that the only reason Mike had a problem with us carrying in there was because he was an ex-cop and is very suspicious.
When Sarah came out to speak with us, she initiated a conversation and asked us for reasons as to why we are carrying and began a dialogue. That is the only reason that I talked to her.
If she had simply said "please leave my store" I would have walked out without another word.
It is quite clear if you know me personally or have paid any attention to my OC log that I do not attempt to be confrontational. VERY few businesses have ever asked me to leave due to OC.
IF a company wishes to take away my rights, that is their prerogative. But that will be a company where I will never spend a dime of my hard earned money.
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marshaul
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 06:00 pm |
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| In my opinion, guyoliver2002's criticisms are entirely unfounded. We have to draw a line somewhere, and you certainly didn't cross it. I would have behaved the same as you.
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marshaul
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 06:00 pm |
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Now, that time I didn't even click twice! 
dern double postsLast edited on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 06:00 pm by marshaul
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knaight
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Boise, Idaho |
| Posts: | 11 |
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 07:36 pm |
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A couple days ago I completed my quest for an engagement ring at Morgan's Jewelers. They came across as very pro OC, and I talked to the store manager on several different occasions, as well as had another customer approach me about my sidearm.
Everyone was very positive, they asked what the law was, what restrictions there were, and quite a few other questions. Another employee expressed that he would like to see more people OCing. I ended up giving out 3-4 cards for OCDO (thanks for making those IndianaBoy!).
So, Morgan's Jewelers is a great place for OCers to buy their diamonds.
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MarKing
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| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 33 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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I got a response today to my note sent to the Reads:
Ms. Sarah Read, This note is to inform you that I will not be
purchasing jewelry for my 8th wedding anniversary from your store as you
have recently chosen to not do business with law abiding citizens exercising
their rights to self defense in carrying of firearms. i will find someone
else to do business with.
Response:
Dear Mark,
Thank you for taking the time to write and let us know your thoughts on this
subject.
My name is Sarah Read and I am the Director of Sales and
Marketing here at Lee Read Jewelers. I have discussed this subject at length
with the owner and president of Lee Read Jewelers, Larry Read.
We want to personally assure you Lee Read Jewelers, its owners and its
management, including myself, fully support any citizens right to own and
bear arms if they so choose. As with most businesses, we ask that fire arms
be left in the car while shopping in our store. Our staff and Guests have no
way of knowing the intent or training of an individual with a side arm.
Right or wrong, this causes our other guests as well as our staff severe
concerns.
Again, thank you taking the time to explore why we do what we do, it is not
that we are anti-gun.
Congratulations on and best wishes for a very Happy 8th Anniversary to both
you and your wife.
Sincerely,
Sarah Read
Lee Read Jewelers
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45-ACP
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 118 |
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 12:26 am |
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To whom it may concern .
I have just become aware of an incident where to law abiding customers were
asked to leave your store because they were excersing there right to protect them
selves by openly carrying firearms.
I understand you have the right to refuse service and am proud to live in a country
where we have that right.But I also reserve the right to not shop in your store, I
would have thought you would enjoy the extra security of 2 law abiding americans
armed in your store, it was safer with them in there.
i know i most likely will never be out there but we gotta stick togther, rember the 2nd belongs to all of us
here's the reply
Thank you for taking the time to write and let us know your thoughts on this
subject.
My name is Sarah Read and I am the Director of Sales and Marketing here at
Lee Read Jewelers. I have discussed this subject at length with the owner
and president of Lee Read Jewelers, Larry Read.
We want to personally assure you Lee Read Jewelers, its owners and its
management, including myself, fully support any citizens right to own and
bear arms if they so choose.
As with most businesses, we ask that fire arms be left in the owner's
vehicle while shopping in our store. Our staff and Guests have no way of
knowing the intent or training of an individual with a side arm. Right or
wrong, this causes our other guests as well as our staff severe concerns.
Again, thank you taking the time to explore why we do what we do, it is not
that we are anti-gun.
Sincerely,
Sarah Read
Lee Read Jewelers
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Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 05:09 pm by 45-ACP
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