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Seabolt
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 10:06 pm |
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| Did any of you watch the video. It dosnt matter if the dude was holding a sandal. he reapatedly said he had a gun. he said he had 13 rounds, and if they release the dogs he would shoot the dogs and them. He got what he had coming. Im with Brian on this one. i feel sorry for the dog, could care less what happend to the guy.
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 10:30 pm |
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| Perps say all sorts of things. Sometimes they're just crazy... Crazy people say all sorts of things. The cops shot the dog and the perp before the dog could do it's job. Let the dog do what it was trained to do. None of that happened. Why? 'Cause some 'cops were flat scared outt'a their wits and had no clue how to handle the situation. Nobody took fire. I don't care what he 'said'. The dog didn't take fire (cept from the rear). This was NOT a good shoot. No... I don't care much about the hoodlum either... but this was Murder 2.
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Saint
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 287 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 10:39 pm |
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The guy said he had a gun. He said he had 13 shots. He said he would shoot if the officers let a dog loose on him. He was holding 'something' in his hand in a low light situation that could be reasonably construed as a weapon.
I think the cops should have used more restraint and tried a non-lethal take down first. However, they had more than ample reason to believe that the perp was armed and willing to kill, and they responded in a way that was perfectly legal.
There is no doubt though that the training of these officers must be extremely poor if only 1 in 4 shots hit the man and they killed their own police dog on top of it.
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Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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I only watch this until after the shooting was over and the dust was settling.
The kid was an idiot trying to bluff the police when he knew he didn't have squat. He escalated the situation by claiming to have a gun and refusing to comply with the officers to drop what ever he was holding out of sight and surrender.
He knew the event was being video taped and figured this was his chance for his 15 minutes of fame. He got what he asked for.
The only question I have here is why so many officers have to open fire at once? Why not let the K9 do his/her job before shooting? It appears that some of these officers need some serious range time as well.
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hitbackfirst
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Boise, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 23 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 02:21 am |
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If someone threatens to kill you (LEO or civilian) eliminating the threat is the correct course of action. It is not necessary to risk your life making sure the perp has the capability to carry out the threat. The only victim was the dog.
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BrianEMT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Boise, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 259 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 02:43 am |
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hitbackfirst wrote: If someone threatens to kill you (LEO or civilian) eliminating the threat is the correct course of action. It is not necessary to risk your life making sure the perp has the capability to carry out the threat. The only victim was the dog.
I'm glad to see there are at least a few people here who can think clearly and logically. In that situation, no amount of less-lethal force is going to stop the threat. And I don't think they equip every unit with XREPs yet, which would have been the only thing that could have stopped the threat without deadly force.
No amount of gas, beanbags, or other less-lethal options at that range would have been enough to keep the suspect from opening fire.
Before the next ignorant nutjob screams that the officers in the line of duty are these "murderous pigs", try thinking with some logic, instead of this ridiculous mentality you have been following. I guarantee you if someday you are involved in a shoot, this thread will be dug up and the phrases herein used against you.
Although most of you irrational members are out of state, which explains quite a lot. Here in Idaho we use our firearms responsibly. Try it sometime.
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 08:59 pm |
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BrianEMT wrote: Gunslinger wrote:@#$%ing @#$% cops. Killed an unarmed man and their own dog. What a bunch of murderous scum. Probably got 2 days paid administrative leave. Gradually, this country is learning just who the domestic enemy some of us are sworn to protect the Constitution from really is.
You have GOT to be kidding me. I am sick of people like you slinging crap at law enforcement for a justifiable shooting at a suspect who was obviously unstable and armed. Regardless of whether or not the suspect was brandishing a toy gun, a real gun, or a cell phone, each presents a similar and equally dangerous situation.
In this situation, and taking into account the totality of the circumstances, I feel more sorry for the highly-trained police service dog than I do about the suspect.
I'm not sure what I thought of you before, but now I certainly don't care or believe anything you have to say, as this has probably been the most IGNORANT thing that could have possibly been said.
"Obviously armed!" Are you blind? He was "armed" with a flipflop. They sent the dog, and I feel bad for him, then executed the guy and the dog--because why? They were trigger happy bastards, that's why. Why send the dog and then open fire? The K9 was in process of getting the guy. So why shoot?
And I won't lose any sleep worrying what you or the other "law and order" apologists think of me. We don't need badged executioners in this country, and that's just what these pos were. And you that support them blindly are just as bad.
"We must take away the guns to make the streets safe for the SS."
A. Hitler
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:13 pm |
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| Correctamundo! Trigger happy... possibly a pair of MP-5's (or more) That wasn't 'handgun' fire.
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:17 pm |
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BrianEMT wrote: hitbackfirst wrote: If someone threatens to kill you (LEO or civilian) eliminating the threat is the correct course of action. It is not necessary to risk your life making sure the perp has the capability to carry out the threat. The only victim was the dog.
I'm glad to see there are at least a few people here who can think clearly and logically. In that situation, no amount of less-lethal force is going to stop the threat. And I don't think they equip every unit with XREPs yet, which would have been the only thing that could have stopped the threat without deadly force.
No amount of gas, beanbags, or other less-lethal options at that range would have been enough to keep the suspect from opening fire.
Before the next ignorant nutjob screams that the officers in the line of duty are these "murderous pigs", try thinking with some logic, instead of this ridiculous mentality you have been following. I guarantee you if someday you are involved in a shoot, this thread will be dug up and the phrases herein used against you.
Although most of you irrational members are out of state, which explains quite a lot. Here in Idaho we use our firearms responsibly. Try it sometime.
In that situation, any amount of less lethal force would have stopped the guy from using his flipflop.
The ID cops certainly used theirs "responsibly."
As far as what you post on the IN being "used against you": only when the Secret Police take you to the tribunal and you face the hooded judges. That will be the final chapter of "law and order."
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:30 pm |
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Hubby_MC wrote: BrianEMT wrote: Gunslinger wrote:@#$%ing @#$% cops. Killed an unarmed man and their own dog. What a bunch of murderous scum. Probably got 2 days paid administrative leave. Gradually, this country is learning just who the domestic enemy some of us are sworn to protect the Constitution from really is. You sir, are an idiot. People like you are hurting your cause of Open Carry more than all the leftist liberals out there today. Stupid statements like this make you sound like a nut. Suicide by cop is not the same as murder and if you cant tell the difference between telling officers you have a gun and murder you should not be allowed anywhere near a weapon.
Too bad you post such ignorant statements on a public forum like this representing your fellow OCers.
One step foreward, two steps back................
Zeig heil! The police are our friends. Law and order first and foremost. The law of the concentration camp and the order of the graveyard. The "cause" of OC is dependant on an understanding that this nation is a nation of LAW! Not badged Gestapo who are above it. I don't hate the police, far from it. I do hate the storm trooper mentality that they are the ubermensch and we the sheep dependant on their good graces. Obey them, or go to the slaughterhouse. You, sir, are the idiot. Kneejerk reactionary. Keep on supporting your local police; I'll keep on supporting the Bill of Rights.
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:47 pm |
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Gunslinger wrote:
BrianEMT wrote: Gunslinger wrote:@#$%ing @#$% cops. Killed an unarmed man and their own dog. What a bunch of murderous scum. Probably got 2 days paid administrative leave. Gradually, this country is learning just who the domestic enemy some of us are sworn to protect the Constitution from really is.
You have GOT to be kidding me. I am sick of people like you slinging crap at law enforcement for a justifiable shooting at a suspect who was obviously unstable and armed. Regardless of whether or not the suspect was brandishing a toy gun, a real gun, or a cell phone, each presents a similar and equally dangerous situation.
In this situation, and taking into account the totality of the circumstances, I feel more sorry for the highly-trained police service dog than I do about the suspect.
I'm not sure what I thought of you before, but now I certainly don't care or believe anything you have to say, as this has probably been the most IGNORANT thing that could have possibly been said.
"Obviously armed!" Are you blind? He was "armed" with a flipflop. They sent the dog, and I feel bad for him, then executed the guy and the dog--because why? They were trigger happy bastards, that's why. Why send the dog and then open fire? The K9 was in process of getting the guy. So why shoot?
And I won't lose any sleep worrying what you or the other "law and order" apologists think of me. We don't need badged executioners in this country, and that's just what these pos were. And you that support them blindly are just as bad.
"We must take away the guns to make the streets safe for the SS."
A. Hitler
+1
I agree with all your posts on this subject.
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Somebody cut loose with a full auto somethin'. Maybe an MP-5. Why? The dog was on him... just barely. I didn't even see reason for the dog. I did see extreme cowardice among these cops tho. A collective wimp-out. The guy was in the open... lit up... what else they need? You go in 'n effect the arrest. BTDT too. Alone. That's what they pay you for. That's why they give you a gun and a badge 'n handcuffs and AUTHORITY. That was NOT a good shoot.
I think the point of the dog was to get him to react, so they could all shoot him. To me, he reacts like he's downright scared when they release the dog, throwing his flip flop like that. I'm sure they knew that would happen. I'm sure they didn't "mean" to hit the dog, but they weren't exactly worried about its safety either -- that much is obvious.
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 10:12 pm by marshaul
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:29 pm |
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The reason for the dog is to disable him... distract him 'til the LEO's can effect the arrest. Now... had he shot the dog or shot at the dog or beyond you could possibly expect a deadly force response. The dog didn't even get on him when they opened up. He moved... as a reaction to the dog.
There was NO fire discipline in that bunch. Somebody flinched... 'n the rest of 'em flinched in unison. Bunch'a amatures. There was NO justification for that shoot.
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