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Tylerc
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| Joined: | Wed Jan 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | Boise, Idaho USA |
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 12:13 am |
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| Ok i've got a question for all the people out there with far better search button experience. In the two times I've been arrested the police officer never read me my rights. Now my question is do they have to? I've always been told they don't. But I just wanted to clarify.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 12:26 am |
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Tylerc wrote: Ok i've got a question for all the people out there with far better search button experience. In the two times I've been arrested the police officer never read me my rights. Now my question is do they have to? I've always been told they don't. But I just wanted to clarify.
Start here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0384_0436_ZO.html
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Tylerc
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Posted: Mon Jan 26th, 2009 12:17 am |
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| thanks
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Average Joe
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 12:20 pm |
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| The short answer is: Miranda applies if you are detained or under arrest and the officer is conducting an interview reference the alleged crime. If you are not interviewed/interogated Miranda does not apply. If your are interviewed outside of Miranda that is fruit of the poision tree and not admissable in court. See Miranda vs Arizona. Beware of excited utterances or spontanious admissions.
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SlackwareRobert
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 06:37 pm |
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Isn't asking for my drivers license investigating/ interviewing?
I was shocked the only time I was arrested that I wasn't mirandized,
I was so estatic of haveing a constitutional defense in court, then they
dropped all charges befor I even saw the judge. 
I'm just glad the jailer never noticed I had no tax stamps on my cigarettes when I was booked.
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Tylerc
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 08:02 am |
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| cool that explains alot. I was just wondering about this and needed some clarification on the subject so i could add it to my knowledge base of interesting stuff
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4liberty
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 06:02 pm |
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It is my understanding that statements made spontaneously to LE are allowed in court without miranda.
After being involved in the just(us)e system I think it is best to say in virtually all circumstances "I want my lawyer" and say no more
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shad0wfax
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 5th, 2009 10:49 am |
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4liberty wrote: It is my understanding that statements made spontaneously to LE are allowed in court without miranda.
After being involved in the just(us)e system I think it is best to say in virtually all circumstances "I want my lawyer" and say no more
+1 This is excellent advice.
I learned alot from these videos (which have been posted previously in these forums):
Don't talk to the Police Part 1
Don't talk to the Police Part 2
"Am I being detained?"
- No: "Then I will go about my lawful business." *Walk away.*
- Yes: "What is your Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a crime."
- If they have no RAS: "Then I will go about my lawful business." *Walk away.*
- If they do have RAS: "I have nothing to say without my attorney present." *Comply and prepare to be arrested. Place a call to the attorney before they take the cell-phone away.*
- Arrest: "I Have nothing to say without my attorney present." *Comply silently.*
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4liberty
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Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 05:36 am |
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Excellent!
Breifly: shut up, lawyer up.
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563
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Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 06:06 pm |
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People tend to panic when faced with the threat of arrest (weather it's legal or illegal) and wind up talking when they shouldn't, especially if it's their first time.
Be Strong, stand your ground and remain quiet, but don't resist arrest.
Many people panic when arrested, or faced with the possibility of being locked up, in most cases, if it's your first time, you'll be out on O.R. (own recognizance) in 8-72 hours, so don't panic. get a lawyer. and don't say a thing. the more you talk, the more you help THEM make a case against you. bottom line, Don't fear being arrested, it's not as bad as you might think it is.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 07:36 pm |
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Tylerc wrote: cool that explains alot. I was just wondering about this and needed some clarification on the subject so i could add it to my store of vital stuff that is absolutely essential to know well enough to use.
There, fixed it for ya. 
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Idaho Born
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Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2009 12:57 pm |
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I suppose if you commited a crime then you shouldn't talk. However, think of this scenario where the antil LE people can cost themselves a lot of time and money.
A bystander calls 911 because she observed you point your gun at a person near your vehicle. The person quickly walks away, and an Officer detains you. Yes you are under suspicion of an aggravated assault or similar crime. You invoke your right to remain silent, and go to jail.
The reality - A person attempted to carjack you, but you defended yourself by producing your firearm, and the person decided to find someone else to mess with. Because you didn't talk you ended up in jail.
Most cops have decent common sense. A few bad ones are around, but If you didn't do anything wrong then talk, and you will likely walk away.
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NightOwl
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Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2009 09:31 pm |
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Then again, you might come across one of those bad apples. Heck, you could come across a good apple, but express yourself poorly and wind up in jail awaiting trial-having incriminating statements on record. You might find this video an interesting watch. It's about half an hour, but it's fascinating if you have any interest in the subject, which is a law professor and retired police officer orating on the subject that people-especially the innocent-should never talk to the police.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865
It's not new, but if anyone hasn't seen it, I suggest they make the time to watch it.
Edit: That's actually only the first half, with the law professor speaking. Here is the last half, where the police officer speaks: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&hl=en
Last edited on Sat Mar 14th, 2009 09:56 pm by NightOwl
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SlackwareRobert
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Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2009 06:07 pm |
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Idaho Born wrote: A bystander calls 911 because she observed you point your gun at a person near your vehicle. The person quickly walks away, and an Officer detains you. Yes you are under suspicion of an aggravated assault or similar crime. You invoke your right to remain silent, and go to jail.
Why are you still there waiting to see if a cop will show up after an
attempted carjacking? You go mobile, and report the crime, not hang
around the obviously bad area.
Then the cops will have a discription of the thug to go with the other callers
911 report.
You can give the 911 operator a description on the phone, there is no reason to
repeat yourself if you are pulled over. Unless you are wearing the same thing,
then you might want to show ID that you are the cars owner, not the successful
carjacker.
But other than, the 911 tapes have the description, I see nothing else to say.
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4liberty
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Posted: Sat Mar 21st, 2009 05:31 am |
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@ Idaho born
Talk all you want and maybe you will be okay in your given situation. But say nothing, go to jail and get a lawyer you will for sure be okay (not convicted of a crime)
I have seen criminals who have been caught almost red handed get off because they "shut up and lawyered up"
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IdahoCorsair
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Posted: Thu Apr 2nd, 2009 01:29 am |
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Idaho Born wrote: I suppose if you commited a crime then you shouldn't talk. However, think of this scenario where the antil LE people can cost themselves a lot of time and money.
A bystander calls 911 because she observed you point your gun at a person near your vehicle. The person quickly walks away, and an Officer detains you. Yes you are under suspicion of an aggravated assault or similar crime. You invoke your right to remain silent, and go to jail.
The reality - A person attempted to carjack you, but you defended yourself by producing your firearm, and the person decided to find someone else to mess with. Because you didn't talk you ended up in jail.
Most cops have decent common sense. A few bad ones are around, but If you didn't do anything wrong then talk, and you will likely walk away.
says every cop I know.
Reality is if your head is clear enough give the basics of "I was in fear for my life, he tried to kill me" (only if it's true)... then shut up after informing the officer that they'll understand if you don't say more. Any cop worth his badge will understand the citizen's point of view and put two and two together from the evidence (or lack). When in doubt you assume innocence.
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The Grand Pooh-Bah
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 07:19 pm |
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shad0wfax wrote: 4liberty wrote:
+1 This is excellent advice.
I learned alot from these videos (which have been posted previously in these forums):
Don't talk to the Police Part 1
Don't talk to the Police Part 2
Excellent videos. Every citizen should watch them.
Last edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 07:20 pm by The Grand Pooh-Bah
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Domandred
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 09:42 pm |
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I learned first hand NEVER NEVER NEVER talk to the police even if you don't think you are going to be arrested for anything. If you didn't do anything illegal then let the courts work it out. Does not matter one bit if you have been Mirandized.
Anything you say before arrest is outside Miranda, but if it's on tape it can be used in court, because you "voluntarily" gave the information. That includes if you thought by saying something you could explain or talk yourself out of being arrested. Probably more like you'll end up talking your way into being arrested.
Give them your name, driver's license if required, and that's it. Just keep your mouth shut. If they arrest you spend the night in jail, get out in the morning on bond, then fight the charges tooth and nail with attorney in hand. You do not want to give the police or prosecution any evidence at all that helps with their case.
If you didn't do anything you can talk your way into evidence that could show you did. Then it's up to the jury. And from second hand knowledge (my wife served on a gun case, she hung the jury) jurors are stupid.
If it doesn't go to trial it reduces the chances of getting charges reduced to something else just to get out of having to face a jury of idiots.
Even if I call them my rule now is to say "I just got you here, you sort it out".
Last edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 09:44 pm by Domandred
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