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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 03:17 pm |
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| Hawk82, Is part of the park your "fixed place of business", I believe is the term. If carry is prohibited in a state park, I'd think it would be at your business as well. It would be like carrying a handgun in as business owner in Morton Grove when an ordinance prohibits handguns. Of course IANAL.
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Hawk82
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 10th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 04:27 am |
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junglebob wrote:
Hawk82, Is part of the park your "fixed place of business", I believe is the term. If carry is prohibited in a state park, I'd think it would be at your business as well. It would be like carrying a handgun in as business owner in Morton Grove when an ordinance prohibits handguns. Of course IANAL.
Yes, I lease part of the park as my "fixed place of business". You do have to cross a small portion of park to get to the area I lease, so it is not connected to the unincorporated area beyond the park borders. But as a double whamy, the border of the park is also the border of the city.
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lockman
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Aug 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | Elgin, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 638 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 01:35 pm |
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If you lease the space, you own the business and your lease does not prohibit firearms you should be OK within your space. UUW statute specifically exempts that situation and trespass would not apply either.
Although I am no Matlock either.
Last edited on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 01:36 pm by lockman
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Hawk82
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 10th, 2008 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 07:53 pm |
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That was my thinking too, since whether you own your place of business, or just lease it, it does belong to you and you have the right under Illinois law to have a right under illinois law to have a firearm and even carry it in the open in your business, whether it is incorporated or unincorporated area.
However, how does one get that firearm to the business, since it is surrounded by park. Do I have to disassemble it to transport in my business truck (I can park right on my leased property), or can it be cased and unloaded? An interesting logic puzzle.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 28th, 2008 04:23 am |
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junglebob wrote: Gunslinger, What year was this that you were open carrying in DuPage county? I've contemplated open carrying here in southern Illinois, south of I64 and a long way from Chicago. I'd be doing it in a rural area on a very rural road that I live on. I wonder about the possibility of the sheriff being called about "man with a gun" and being charged with disorderly conduct. I'm on the edge of the Shawnee Forest and don't expect any neighbors would make such a call but we do get bicyclers going by, maybe even Chicago folks on vacation.
Since I live in a rural area, I've been open carrying when I and my wife go for a walk with the dog. With in the last couple of weeks I've met one neighbor on the road twice, she walked by and we said hi. I wonder did she not see the open carried handgun either time? Then around a week and a half ago I met a couple of bow hunters, who asked if many were hunting in the area. No comment from them either.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 26th, 2008 02:33 am |
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It was mentioned ealier in this thread that "fanny pack carry" might get you arrested. Just wanted to mention about Chris Morley who was transporting a handgun in his maxpediton case,unloaded as required, as he has done for about 10 years. He suffers from cerebral palsy and walks with a cane. He has been the target of muggers several times. On 3 or 4 occansions merely reaching for his unloaded handgun was enough scare the attackers away and possibly save his life.
He was at work on a monday in November and became ill. He was taken to an empty room by another worker to rest and recuperate. As a matter of policy, paramedics were called, but not only did paramedics arrive but police in full tactical gear.
Morleys personal belongings had been searched without warrent or probable cause and his unloaded handgun in his maxpedition case had been exposed. Instead of going home as planned after falling ill, Morley was on his way to the Chicago Police Department Lockup. He was handcuffed to a wall for a few hours, processed, photographed, finger printed, stripped of his clothing including his cane and glasses. Morley could not walk or see. Morley's wife, parents, and other loved ones had no idea where he was.
He was finally realeased tuesday afternoon on an I bond.
If you would like to help in Chris Morley's defense checks can be made payable to his attorney Walter Maksym and sent to Gun Owners Fellowship
605 Fulton Ave.
Rockford, Il 61103
or you can paypal to fellowhip@icarry.org and put that it is for Chis Morley defense.
Chis has been a spokesman for concealed carry in Illinois for many years. He has a court appearance on January 28.
Walter Maksym has won several cases of this type in Illinois. The Roderick Pritchett case being one.
I sent a check for Chris's legal defense, I'm hoping other folks here do so too.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 21st, 2009 08:34 pm |
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Does anyone know the outcome of Chis Morley's court appearance? (He had a handgun in an expedition pack - unloaded - i.e. "fanny packing") He is an Illinoiscarry.com/forum member, but I've sent him a PM and received no reply. Did he enter into some agreement to the prosecutor dropping charges if he made no comments about it? Anyone have any information?
I can't imagine if he was found guilty of UUW charges that the anti self defense crowd in Chicago wouldn't have it in the newspapers.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 24th, 2009 12:14 am |
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junglebob wrote: Does anyone know the outcome of Chis Morley's court appearance? (He had a handgun in an expedition pack - unloaded - i.e. "fanny packing") He is an Illinoiscarry.com/forum member, but I've sent him a PM and received no reply. Did he enter into some agreement to the prosecutor dropping charges if he made no comments about it? Anyone have any information?
I can't imagine if he was found guilty of UUW charges that the anti self defense crowd in Chicago wouldn't have it in the newspapers.
Just found out today. Chris Morley says the Judge granted a Motion to Dismiss'
On top of that the Judge said that until today he had always assumed that a gun had to be dissassembled in order to be legally transported.
This is a victory for Illinois gun owners.
Now I'd like to ask folks who haven't to help out with Chris's legal bills. If you can send a check to Gun Owners Fellowship 605 Fulton Av Rockford, Il 61103 make the check out to Walter Maksym, his lawyer. If you want to send directly to Chris, he is living with a friend the address is 9540 McVicker Oak Lawn, Il 60453 Lets help out Chris all we can.
As I mentioned in an ealier post you can paypal to fellowship@icarry.org and mention its for Chris Morley defense.
Last edited on Tue Mar 24th, 2009 01:19 am by junglebob
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FunkTrooper
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 11:27 am |
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Decoligny wrote: tattedupboy wrote: How about just doing youself a favor and moving to a state where a citizen's right to carry a loaded gun on his person (and not unloaded with the ammo separate in a fanny pack) is recognized and respected. Even if it is technically legal, this method of carry will get you arrested in Cook county and in most other urban parts of the state. Furthermore, carrying a gun with the ammo separate is just like not carrying at all because the gun is not immediately accessible or useful. I hear that Las Vegas is pretty nice this time of year. So are Arizona and Virginia. There's also Kentucky, West Virginia, Vermont, New Hampshire, and a host of other states that are far better than King Richard and Prince Rod Blagojebitch's People's Republic of Ill-annoy.
Did the Founding Fathers say "How about we just pack up and move to some other place where King George won't tax us?"
HELL NO. They stood their ground and fought for their RIGHTS.
If you are unwilling to stay where you are and fight for your rights, what happens when the very last place that allows you to carry a gun decides to take that right away?
Where do you move to then?
ANSWER: The Gulag or the Concentration Camp.
+1 I'm tired of hearing these people rag on others in different states. I have the utmost respect for those who fight for their rights in these anti-gun states.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 04:59 pm |
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FunkTrooper wrote: Decoligny wrote: tattedupboy wrote: How about just doing youself a favor and moving to a state where a citizen's right to carry a loaded gun on his person (and not unloaded with the ammo separate in a fanny pack) is recognized and respected. Even if it is technically legal, this method of carry will get you arrested in Cook county and in most other urban parts of the state. Furthermore, carrying a gun with the ammo separate is just like not carrying at all because the gun is not immediately accessible or useful. I hear that Las Vegas is pretty nice this time of year. So are Arizona and Virginia. There's also Kentucky, West Virginia, Vermont, New Hampshire, and a host of other states that are far better than King Richard and Prince Rod Blagojebitch's People's Republic of Ill-annoy.
Did the Founding Fathers say "How about we just pack up and move to some other place where King George won't tax us?"
HELL NO. They stood their ground and fought for their RIGHTS.
If you are unwilling to stay where you are and fight for your rights, what happens when the very last place that allows you to carry a gun decides to take that right away?
Where do you move to then?
ANSWER: The Gulag or the Concentration Camp.
+1 I'm tired of hearing these people rag on others in different states. I have the utmost respect for those who fight for their rights in these anti-gun states.
FunkTrooper,
Appreciate your support of us here in Illinois fighting to change things. For Illinoisans who would like to join the fight I'd suggest joining the http://www.IllinoisCarry.com/forum You can keep informed of legislation that is in the legislature, both good and bad. On the bright side 3 bad firearms bills are going nowhere this year. Two counties down here in Southern Illinois had a resolution question on the ballot this spring on whether to pass LTC legislation one had 89% yes votes and the other 84%, we have support for LTC in Southern Illinois.
Something I was just told on the IllinoisCarry forum by the ISRA lobbyist in Springfield. The transportation requirements for a cased firearm are the same for a non-resident as for a resident in Illinois. One way to transport under 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4) (iii) is unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner Identification Card. He says that since a non-resident can't get a Firearm Owners ID (FOID) card this doen't apply and he must just follow the rest of the requirements. Note if must be completely enclosed. Ammunition need not be seperate. A loaded magazine may be in the case. He said he was there when the legislation was passed, so I'm assuming he is correct since this type of legislation is his specialty.
For those visiting Illinois who wish to transport a firearm in their vehicle or on their person in this manner be advised you might likely still be arrested for so doing so, especially since the FOID card in mentioned in the statute. Many LEOs in Illinois are ignorant of the state transportation laws. Also local cities like Chicago, Peoria, and East St. Louis and others may have more stringent transport requirements. In southern Illinois south of I64 I don't know of any that do. This may be of help to travelers who wish to keep a firearm.
I'm sending another check today to aid Chris Morley in his legal defense. (posted March 23) Anyone that can do so please send to the address in that post. (or PayPal) Chris was following the law on transporting firearms, his case was dismissed, but he still has legal bills.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 09:17 pm |
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Hawk82 wrote: I've recently become process server (making better money than I did as a secondary teacher), and have had a FOID card for decades. I understand that I can carry a handgun, rifle or shotgun with me on serves in my car in a case with the ammunition, and unloaded. But I'm toying with the idea of a fanny-pack carry of a handgun. I live in Rockford, IL; but I serve in Winnebago, Ogle, Dekalb, Lee, and Stephenson Counties. I do end up in a lot of unincorporated areas doing my job. I was wondering if anyone had any fanny-pack experiences in these areas? I like the idea of the pack, because it gives me a place to keep my badge, phone, flashlight, pen, and digital camera (the guy who trained me wears a photo-journalist vest for these items).
I was also curious about state parks. I have a business that operates in a state park. I lease the facility from DNR. I know that the statute indicates that you can have a firearm on your person in your home or business. Since that portion of my park is my business, does that mean I can keep a firearm there? I think firearms are prohibited from state parks here, but then again I didn't see it mentioned in my lease.
Hawk82, I'm curious if you have tried fanny packing while working as a process server? If so how did it go?
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trailblazer2003
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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junglebob wrote: Hawk82 wrote: I've recently become process server (making better money than I did as a secondary teacher), and have had a FOID card for decades. I understand that I can carry a handgun, rifle or shotgun with me on serves in my car in a case with the ammunition, and unloaded. But I'm toying with the idea of a fanny-pack carry of a handgun. I live in Rockford, IL; but I serve in Winnebago, Ogle, Dekalb, Lee, and Stephenson Counties. I do end up in a lot of unincorporated areas doing my job. I was wondering if anyone had any fanny-pack experiences in these areas? I like the idea of the pack, because it gives me a place to keep my badge, phone, flashlight, pen, and digital camera (the guy who trained me wears a photo-journalist vest for these items).
I was also curious about state parks. I have a business that operates in a state park. I lease the facility from DNR. I know that the statute indicates that you can have a firearm on your person in your home or business. Since that portion of my park is my business, does that mean I can keep a firearm there? I think firearms are prohibited from state parks here, but then again I didn't see it mentioned in my lease.
Hawk82, I'm curious if you have tried fanny packing while working as a process server? If so how did it go?
I worked as a PI/process server about 7 ago years in Chicago and Chicagoland areas. One of the longer employed guys, non-LEO was able to obtain in the city of Chicago a carry permit while on duty, loaded, including in car. If you are lucky enough to be a supervisor or owner with on-call status you can technically carry 24/7 as you can be called for work anytime. Apparently there are many people in the Chicago area who are part/silent owners in a PI firm just for that fringe benefit.
I left before I got the chance to ask my boss for a permit, so that's about all I know on the subject. I would assume you would need a perc, and a tan card plus the armed security classes as well.
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Hawk82
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 10th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 03:52 am |
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junglebob wrote:
Hawk82 wrote: I've recently become process server (making better money than I did as a secondary teacher), and have had a FOID card for decades. I understand that I can carry a handgun, rifle or shotgun with me on serves in my car in a case with the ammunition, and unloaded. But I'm toying with the idea of a fanny-pack carry of a handgun. I live in Rockford, IL; but I serve in Winnebago, Ogle, Dekalb, Lee, and Stephenson Counties. I do end up in a lot of unincorporated areas doing my job. I was wondering if anyone had any fanny-pack experiences in these areas? I like the idea of the pack, because it gives me a place to keep my badge, phone, flashlight, pen, and digital camera (the guy who trained me wears a photo-journalist vest for these items).
I was also curious about state parks. I have a business that operates in a state park. I lease the facility from DNR. I know that the statute indicates that you can have a firearm on your person in your home or business. Since that portion of my park is my business, does that mean I can keep a firearm there? I think firearms are prohibited from state parks here, but then again I didn't see it mentioned in my lease.
Hawk82, I'm curious if you have tried fanny packing while working as a process server? If so how did it go?
No I haven't. I've considered keeping a cased unloaded firearm in my vehicle. But I haven't gone as far as a fanny pack.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 02:16 pm |
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trailblazer2003 wrote: junglebob wrote: Hawk82 wrote: I've recently become process server (making better money than I did as a secondary teacher), and have had a FOID card for decades. I understand that I can carry a handgun, rifle or shotgun with me on serves in my car in a case with the ammunition, and unloaded. But I'm toying with the idea of a fanny-pack carry of a handgun. I live in Rockford, IL; but I serve in Winnebago, Ogle, Dekalb, Lee, and Stephenson Counties. I do end up in a lot of unincorporated areas doing my job. I was wondering if anyone had any fanny-pack experiences in these areas? I like the idea of the pack, because it gives me a place to keep my badge, phone, flashlight, pen, and digital camera (the guy who trained me wears a photo-journalist vest for these items).
I was also curious about state parks. I have a business that operates in a state park. I lease the facility from DNR. I know that the statute indicates that you can have a firearm on your person in your home or business. Since that portion of my park is my business, does that mean I can keep a firearm there? I think firearms are prohibited from state parks here, but then again I didn't see it mentioned in my lease.
Hawk82, I'm curious if you have tried fanny packing while working as a process server? If so how did it go?
I worked as a PI/process server about 7 ago years in Chicago and Chicagoland areas. One of the longer employed guys, non-LEO was able to obtain in the city of Chicago a carry permit while on duty, loaded, including in car. If you are lucky enough to be a supervisor or owner with on-call status you can technically carry 24/7 as you can be called for work anytime. Apparently there are many people in the Chicago area who are part/silent owners in a PI firm just for that fringe benefit.
I left before I got the chance to ask my boss for a permit, so that's about all I know on the subject. I would assume you would need a perc, and a tan card plus the armed security classes as well.
Trailblazer2003, I've never heard of something like a Chicago LTC . It sounds like that guy was pulling your leg. You didn't see the Chicago LTC did you? Doesn't sound like it would be legal under Illinois law.
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trailblazer2003
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 10:42 pm |
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junglebob wrote: trailblazer2003 wrote: junglebob wrote: Hawk82 wrote: I've recently become process server (making better money than I did as a secondary teacher), and have had a FOID card for decades. I understand that I can carry a handgun, rifle or shotgun with me on serves in my car in a case with the ammunition, and unloaded. But I'm toying with the idea of a fanny-pack carry of a handgun. I live in Rockford, IL; but I serve in Winnebago, Ogle, Dekalb, Lee, and Stephenson Counties. I do end up in a lot of unincorporated areas doing my job. I was wondering if anyone had any fanny-pack experiences in these areas? I like the idea of the pack, because it gives me a place to keep my badge, phone, flashlight, pen, and digital camera (the guy who trained me wears a photo-journalist vest for these items).
I was also curious about state parks. I have a business that operates in a state park. I lease the facility from DNR. I know that the statute indicates that you can have a firearm on your person in your home or business. Since that portion of my park is my business, does that mean I can keep a firearm there? I think firearms are prohibited from state parks here, but then again I didn't see it mentioned in my lease.
Hawk82, I'm curious if you have tried fanny packing while working as a process server? If so how did it go?
I worked as a PI/process server about 7 ago years in Chicago and Chicagoland areas. One of the longer employed guys, non-LEO was able to obtain in the city of Chicago a carry permit while on duty, loaded, including in car. If you are lucky enough to be a supervisor or owner with on-call status you can technically carry 24/7 as you can be called for work anytime. Apparently there are many people in the Chicago area who are part/silent owners in a PI firm just for that fringe benefit.
I left before I got the chance to ask my boss for a permit, so that's about all I know on the subject. I would assume you would need a perc, and a tan card plus the armed security classes as well.
Trailblazer2003, I've never heard of something like a Chicago LTC . It sounds like that guy was pulling your leg. You didn't see the Chicago LTC did you? Doesn't sound like it would be legal under Illinois law.
I wasn't sure if it was city or state issued, i just looked it up and it is indeed statewide though the IL DPR agency. The guy was 100%, as was my employer. I think I thought that because he was always assigned to the rougher areas in Chicago. After he had the classes he was allowed to carry concealed his weapon as a licensed PI , he also carried cuffs, oc spray and a baton, again all legal once you take the necessary security courses. I wish I had stayed in Chicago longer and had a chance to go through the process, but we moved before I could.
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halal6
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2009 07:26 pm |
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junglebob wrote: It was mentioned ealier in this thread that "fanny pack carry" might get you arrested. Just wanted to mention about Chris Morley who was transporting a handgun in his maxpediton case,unloaded as required, as he has done for about 10 years. He suffers from cerebral palsy and walks with a cane. He has been the target of muggers several times. On 3 or 4 occansions merely reaching for his unloaded handgun was enough scare the attackers away and possibly save his life.
He was at work on a monday in November and became ill. He was taken to an empty room by another worker to rest and recuperate. As a matter of policy, paramedics were called, but not only did paramedics arrive but police in full tactical gear.
Morleys personal belongings had been searched without warrent or probable cause and his unloaded handgun in his maxpedition case had been exposed. Instead of going home as planned after falling ill, Morley was on his way to the Chicago Police Department Lockup. He was handcuffed to a wall for a few hours, processed, photographed, finger printed, stripped of his clothing including his cane and glasses. Morley could not walk or see. Morley's wife, parents, and other loved ones had no idea where he was.
He was finally realeased tuesday afternoon on an I bond.
If you would like to help in Chris Morley's defense checks can be made payable to his attorney Walter Maksym and sent to Gun Owners Fellowship
605 Fulton Ave.
Rockford, Il 61103
or you can paypal to fellowhip@icarry.org and put that it is for Chis Morley defense.
Chis has been a spokesman for concealed carry in Illinois for many years. He has a court appearance on January 28.
Walter Maksym has won several cases of this type in Illinois. The Roderick Pritchett case being one.
I sent a check for Chris's legal defense, I'm hoping other folks here do so too.
I dont think we will ever be sure if we can legally conceal carry. You mentioned my cousin Roderick Pritchett. He was not legal at all. He had a loaded gun in his car on the Southside of Chicago. Not in a Fanny pack nor in a case. Under his seat. Walter won the case but they ruined his life. We found out a pending felony is almost as bad as a felony. No job no apartment no nothin. Not to mention they still haven't returned his gun. A week in Cook County jail and lost his job. This City Chicago had over 500 homicides last year. DO you know that is more deaths than the soilders in Iraq? But they think gun control is the answer. The first thing we must do is to get Daley and Stroger out of office. In the meantime I would like to hear if anyone has heard from a District Attorney who will clarify if the fanny pack option is ok.
Last edited on Sun Aug 9th, 2009 07:30 pm by halal6
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 9th, 2009 11:21 pm |
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Halal6, I thought that Rodney Pritchett had his handgun unloaded and in a CD case. The CD case would qualify as an "other container" for transporting a firearm, since state law says firearms carrying box, shipping box, or other container. I don't know if there is a Chicago ordinance requiring transport in a gun case.
I don't know of a states attorney who has commented on "fanny packing", I understand the assistant states attorney in Champaign County supports right to carry legislation, and I don't believe would prosecute someone fanny packing. I wonder if any states attorney in Wisconsin would have said the state laws allowed open carry before the Attorney General made a pronouncement? I have my doubts.
I'd say the most important states attorney to get an opinion from, if you could, would be the one in the county you plan to fanny pack in.
I've heard that more are killed in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq.
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halal6
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 12:02 am |
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Yes thats correct. Its Roderick Pritchett. It was in a cd case under his seat but it was loaded. The problem the prosecuters had was proving that it was loaded.
Besides that, handguns in Chicago are illegal anyways. Loaded unloaded fanny pack in case Daley dont want them so every good citizen suffers.
The Chicago chief of police made a statement in the south suburban newspaper that the criminals dont respect the police he feels sorry for the public.
We dont want his pity we want our rights.
This was after two LEO's was shot while trying to serve a warrant.
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junglebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 02:07 pm |
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halal6 wrote: Yes thats correct. Its Roderick Pritchett. It was in a cd case under his seat but it was loaded. The problem the prosecuters had was proving that it was loaded.
Besides that, handguns in Chicago are illegal anyways. Loaded unloaded fanny pack in case Daley dont want them so every good citizen suffers.
The Chicago chief of police made a statement in the south suburban newspaper that the criminals dont respect the police he feels sorry for the public.
We dont want his pity we want our rights.
This was after two LEO's was shot while trying to serve a warrant.
Whether the handgun was loaded or unloaded in the "case" he should have "just said no" when they asked to search his vehicle. Say "no you do not have premission to search my vehicle." If asked to step out of your vehicle lock the door behind you. Last edited on Thu Sep 10th, 2009 02:08 pm by junglebob
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Statesman
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 10:16 pm |
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Fallguy wrote: junglebob wrote: That is interesting that Illinois is one of only 4 states that don't require you to wear a helmet when riding a motorcyle. What are the other 3?
The other 3 are IA, CO and NH.
Many others allow some form of choice for adults but those 4 have no laws at all concerning motorcycle helmets.
junglebob wrote:
I suspect we have a motorcycle association doing some good lobbying.
Yes...ABATE of Illnois. http://www.abate-il.org/
I'm fairly certain Kentucky recently dropped its helmet law.
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