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nikerret
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 08:19 pm |
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I just moved to Shawnee, temporarily.
Has anyone on this board carried in the Kansas City Metro area?
I was comfortable in Lawrence, now I have to get comfortable here.
I understand I will probably have to be the pioneer in this arena. Does anyone have any encouragement to throw my way? Yes, I am blatantly asking for encouragement. 
I have carried twice in a couple of weeks. I carried at night while walking my dog.
Stay Safe,
nikerret
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captainamerica
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 08:54 pm |
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| I rarely see anyone open carrying in the KC-metro area. That said, it is legal to carry in KS and MO unless a local (city/county) prohibition is in place (as you probably know). I couldn't tell you if Shawnee has prohibitions or if they hassle even without prohibitions but I've never seen anyone O.C. in Shawnee.
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Particle
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 01:35 am |
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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum24/2457.html
According to this thread, OC is prohibited in KC.
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nikerret
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 03:44 am |
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This list is cities that to the best of my knowledge through studying the city codes DO allow open carry. I am not a lawyer and some restrictions MAY apply:
Shawnee
Mission (Title 2, Ch. 215, Article 7)
Merriam
Olathe
DOES NOT does not allow open carry)
Overland Park
Lenexa
Praire Village
Leawood
Topeka
I am not talking about Kansas City. I said "Metro".
The Kansas City area is made up of about 15 Cities that all have their own Codes and Regulations. These (approx) 15 Cities make a circle around Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri. Both Kansas Cities are independent Municipalities. In fact each is governed by two different States' Laws.
I live in Shawnee. It is one of the Cities that shares a border with Kansas City, Kansas. Three other Municipalities also border Shawnee.
Please read the entire posts.
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Particle
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 03:55 am |
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Well, if that's how you're going to be, then I apologize for trying to help you. 
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captainamerica
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 02:21 pm |
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I'd like to clarify that OC is not prohibited in Kansas City, MISSOURI. Knowing when your are in KC, MO and when you've just entered another municipality that may prohibit OC is another matter.
Particle wrote:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum24/2457.html
According to this thread, OC is prohibited in KC.
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nikerret
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 04:44 am |
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captainamerica wrote:
I'd like to clarify that OC is not prohibited in Kansas City, MISSOURI. Knowing when your are in KC, MO and when you've just entered another municipality that may prohibit OC is another matter.
Yes, this can be a very difficult matter.
I have researched many of the Cities on the Kansas side, but none on the Missouri side.
Where are you from?
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captainamerica
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 02:19 pm |
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KC, MO
nikerret wrote:
captainamerica wrote:
I'd like to clarify that OC is not prohibited in Kansas City, MISSOURI. Knowing when your are in KC, MO and when you've just entered another municipality that may prohibit OC is another matter.
Yes, this can be a very difficult matter.
I have researched many of the Cities on the Kansas side, but none on the Missouri side.
Where are you from?
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Jared
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Posted: Thu Aug 16th, 2007 10:29 pm |
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nikerret wrote: This list is cities that to the best of my knowledge through studying the city codes DO allow open carry. I am not a lawyer and some restrictions MAY apply:
Shawnee
Mission (Title 2, Ch. 215, Article 7)
Merriam
Olathe
DOES NOTdoes not allow open carry)
Overland Park
Lenexa
Praire Village
Leawood
Topeka
I am not talking about Kansas City. I said "Metro".
The Kansas City area is made up of about 15 Cities that all have their own Codes and Regulations. These (approx) 15 Cities make a circle around Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri. Both Kansas Cities are independent Municipalities. In fact each is governed by two different States' Laws.
I live in Shawnee. It is one of the Cities that shares a border with Kansas City, Kansas. Three other Municipalities also border Shawnee.
Please read the entire posts.
Just remember that with the update to the preemption law, you may open carry statewide if you are carrying on a license that is valid in Kansas for concealed carry.
If you have a license, you can open carry regardless of any local ordinances or anything else.
Unfortunately, in MO this is not the case but in KS it is.
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nikerret
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Posted: Thu Aug 16th, 2007 11:39 pm |
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Jared wrote:
[b
Just remember that with the update to the preemption law, you may open carry statewide if you are carrying on a license that is valid in Kansas for concealed carry.
If you have a license, you can open carry regardless of any local ordinances or anything else.
Unfortunately, in MO this is not the case but in KS it is.
I was unaware of this new pre-emption law. I do not have a CC Permit. I am trying to get into LE. Why pay the excessively high price for a permit when I can get one for free?
Thanks for bringing this out.
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jlwman
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 09:34 pm |
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Jared wrote:
Just remember that with the update to the preemption law, you may open carry statewide if you are carrying on a license that is valid in Kansas for concealed carry.
If you have a license, you can open carry regardless of any local ordinances or anything else.
Unfortunately, in MO this is not the case but in KS it is.
Maybe you could show me the area in the law that states this. I have never heard of this and have a hard time believing this to be true.
Edit: And yet it is true. I did find the section pertaining to open carry. Thanks for the new knowledge!!!
Last edited on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 10:00 pm by jlwman
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jlwman
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 04:16 pm |
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Well, I've brought this up to the kansas concealed carry forum and asked their thoughts. This is what was said and I happened to realize what they said was correct, as my original thoughts on this issue were. We do not have open carry just because we have a CC license. I thought it sounded ridiculous.
I think some are 'mis-reading' this and missing the first words of that section .... if you ddin't read that first line into it... it would appear they could carry "open" and the city/county coudl not regulate it if you were CCL. However, the first sentence changes the meaning, and "yes" , they can restrict anyone from open carry... IF they pass a law to that effect.
(b) Nothing in this section shall:
(2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly
carrying a loaded firearm on one’s person; or in the immediate control of a person, not licensed under the personal and family protection act while
on property open to the public.
(3) prohibit a city or county from regulating in any manner the car-
rying of any firearm in any jail, juvenile detention facility, prison, court-
house, courtroom or city hall;
It is saying "nothing in this section" prohibits a City or County from having laws against "open carry". It just goes on later to say, we're ok to have it in the car, and to take it out to put it up, etc. without being charged with 'open carry' because we had the weapon out (in order to put it up in the car, etc), or because we had it in the car (transportation section & laws).
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Jared
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 03:10 am |
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jlwman wrote: Well, I've brought this up to the kansas concealed carry forum and asked their thoughts. This is what was said and I happened to realize what they said was correct, as my original thoughts on this issue were. We do not have open carry just because we have a CC license. I thought it sounded ridiculous.
I think some are 'mis-reading' this and missing the first words of that section .... if you ddin't read that first line into it... it would appear they could carry "open" and the city/county coudl not regulate it if you were CCL. However, the first sentence changes the meaning, and "yes" , they can restrict anyone from open carry... IF they pass a law to that effect.
(b) Nothing in this section shall:
(2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly
carrying a loaded firearm on one’s person; or in the immediate control of a person, not licensed under the personal and family protection act while
on property open to the public.
(3) prohibit a city or county from regulating in any manner the car-
rying of any firearm in any jail, juvenile detention facility, prison, court-
house, courtroom or city hall;
It is saying "nothing in this section" prohibits a City or County from having laws against "open carry". It just goes on later to say, we're ok to have it in the car, and to take it out to put it up, etc. without being charged with 'open carry' because we had the weapon out (in order to put it up in the car, etc), or because we had it in the car (transportation section & laws).
No, the people on the forum are not capable of reading english then. The law says what it says. It says preemption, then it says that cities and counties can regulate open carry for people "NOT" licensed under the personal protection act. The key word is.... NOT. It doesn't say they can regulate people licensed under the personal protection act.
Again, it says NOT. These were the same type of arguements that the head of Pacific Northwest was hearing about Oregon. And like Kansas, Oregon is similar and the people who said CCW holders could not open carry if a county or city banned it were wrong and clearly can not understand basic english...... and they vote..... scary.
Summary, people with a valid CCW license in Kansas can open carry without regard to any local law to the contrary. If they do not choose to do it then that is their perogative.... these are usually the same people who are scared when they walk past a cop while CCW'ing because even though they have a license, they must be wrong for some reason.
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jlwman
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 03:18 am |
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Maybe you could explain this document from the Kansas Attorney Generals website.
http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/HB2528.Modifications.pdf
Under Preemption of City & County Ordinances etc.....third paragraph down...it states:
Cities and counties still have the authority to regulate the open carry of
firearms “on one’s person.” These local regulations apply to concealed
carry licensees as well as the general public.
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 11:20 pm |
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jlwman wrote: Maybe you could explain this document from the Kansas Attorney Generals website.
http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/HB2528.Modifications.pdf
Under Preemption of City & County Ordinances etc.....third paragraph down...it states:
Cities and counties still have the authority to regulate the open carry of
firearms “on one’s person.” These local regulations apply to concealed
carry licensees as well as the general public.
There is nothing to say except that the AG is reading the law for what it could say and not for what it says.
This is the same AG that says non-resident permits are not valid in KS. This is not true, he is flaunting the law. The Pennsylvania State Police tried to flaunt the law not to long ago and gun owners put down the beer and turned off NASCAR to get that situation straightened out.
The readers Digest of the new preemption law also stated that open carry is still subject to local regulation; however, if you actually pick up a copy of the modified law and read it, it says open carry regulations apply to people NOT licensed under the personal and family protection act. The key word is NOT.
Words mean something and they are there for a reason. The law is not complicated to read, especially in Kansas. Kansas is like Oregon, your status as a CCW holder exempts you from local regulation regarding open carry.
This was not some oversight either. When Senator Journey wrote the new preemption law, it was going to have statewide open carry without a permit. A police chief (think it was from Lawrence) approached him and said that he was worried gang members could use that provision of law to open carry so Journey amended the bill to say open carry regs are ok; however, they do NOT apply to CCW holders, the chief was very happy with this.
I'm not sure what else I could possible say. You can show me the readers digest, the AG's opinion, some backwater police chiefs opinion, some gun club's opinion etc. None of it means anything, the only thing that matters is the text of the law and the word "NOT" means something whether anyone likes it or not. The law is the law and words mean something, they are not put there for place holders or to fill up the rest of a page... they all mean something.
The ; in the sentence could be the source of the confusion as well but this wouldn't matter as it is the same sentence. If there was a period and a new sentence, then yes, open carry would be regulated for permit holders as well.
Last edited on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 11:26 pm by Jared
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jlwman
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 12:24 am |
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Jared wrote:
I'm not sure what else I could possible say. You can show me the readers digest, the AG's opinion, some backwater police chiefs opinion, some gun club's opinion etc. None of it means anything, the only thing that matters is the text of the law and the word "NOT" means something whether anyone likes it or not. The law is the law and words mean something, they are not put there for place holders or to fill up the rest of a page... they all mean something.
What strikes me odd is the fact that someone that lives in AZ knows so much about the laws in KS. Do you follow them that well? Our current AG is a lawyer. Are you? Do you feel that the advice you give will absolutely get no one in trouble. This is your reading of the law. It can obviously be interperted other ways...so how can you be so sure that your is the right way? How are you going to feel if someone OC's (based on your advise), is arrested and found guility? Will your response be to come and fight the laws here in KS, or to just say "I'm not a lawyer, it's just the way I read the law".
I came into this thread with an open mind. Not knowing which is right or wrong, based upon the current law. Who do you need to hear from to say that this CC law does not permit OC? If the AG is stating that it does not allow for OC just because you're a CC holder...who then could change your mind? I assume you have an answer for who could change your mind on this subject. If not....that would seem a little odd...
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 12:41 am |
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jlwman wrote: Jared wrote:
I'm not sure what else I could possible say. You can show me the readers digest, the AG's opinion, some backwater police chiefs opinion, some gun club's opinion etc. None of it means anything, the only thing that matters is the text of the law and the word "NOT" means something whether anyone likes it or not. The law is the law and words mean something, they are not put there for place holders or to fill up the rest of a page... they all mean something.
What strikes me odd is the fact that someone that lives in AZ knows so much about the laws in KS. Do you follow them that well? Our current AG is a lawyer. Are you? Do you feel that the advice you give will absolutely get no one in trouble. This is your reading of the law. It can obviously be interperted other ways...so how can you be so sure that your is the right way? How are you going to feel if someone OC's (based on your advise), is arrested and found guility? Will your response be to come and fight the laws here in KS, or to just say "I'm not a lawyer, it's just the way I read the law".
I came into this thread with an open mind. Not knowing which is right or wrong, based upon the current law. Who do you need to hear from to say that this CC law does not permit OC? If the AG is stating that it does not allow for OC just because you're a CC holder...who then could change your mind? I assume you have an answer for who could change your mind on this subject. If not....that would seem a little odd...
You can find my knowledge to be funny or not, I really don't care. I know a lot about firearm law because..... I've read a lot of law and case law.
I've spent a lot of time reading law and case law when the group I was in CRALRI wrote an amicus brief for Mosby v Devine in RI supreme court in 2004.
This is where I was able to research a lot of law and all that.
I could very well be wrong about Kansas; however, i'm pretty sure I am not.
Move to Kansas to help change the laws. Ummm, no, Kansas is flat, boring and no NFA firearms. No thanks.
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captainamerica
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 06:47 pm |
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According to all I've heard/read about OC in Kansas the good news is that the state does not prohibit it but the bad news is that local municipalities can prohibit it. However, good news again is that it would NOT be a felony or something that could get your CCW and 2A rights taken away. But, the bad news once again is that you would lose some $ and maybe some time in their local jail.
But I don't see any connection from OC to state preemption just b/c someone has a KS CCW permit. The test case on this could be very costly, money-wise as well as 2A rights-wise. I'll OC in the countryside and most small towns and CCW in the cities for now and cut my losses.
But it's been a good discussion.
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Jared
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 06:35 am |
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captainamerica wrote:
But I don't see any connection from OC to state preemption just b/c someone has a KS CCW permit.
But it's been a good discussion.
The connection is a person's status as a CCW holder according to the new preemption law. Apparently, the cause of concern is the semi-colon and that makes the open carry part a little vague.
Given how the AG "interpreted" the law to read that only resident permits qualify for reciprocity, I do not trust him on this either.
Your conclusion in the meantime is a wise one. This thread has probably gone on longer then many but I can't help it when people say "I'm not a lawyer".. I've learned that many lawyers do not know firearm law all to well. The amicus brief for the Mosby case was written by non-lawyers and that's where we (myself included) obtained a lot of legal knowledge from all states and some other countries. This case made Rhode Island shall-issue and many people in Rhode Island have gotten the permits they are entitled to (people who the AG would have denied permits to). We continue to force local authorities to follow the law.
I have great reason to be skeptical and even though I'm not 30. I've done more then enough for gun owners who are unwilling to help themselves. If all gunowners took a little time, even New York would have gun laws mirroring those of New Hamshire.
You all in Kansas have it tough. Like Massachusettes, the Kansas Supreme Court has nullified you state RKBA provision and said it is nothing more then a collective right.
You all have an uphill battle in Kansas; however, your laws have gotten better in the past year.
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spurrit
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:33 am |
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Jared wrote: Ummm, no, Kansas is flat, boring and no NFA firearms. No thanks.
We now have NFA, but we already have plenty of jerks.
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