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TheMrMitch
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 09:06 pm |
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Please read.
I talked to Mr Smith's attorney today at 15:45. He was gracious enough to return my call.
Mr Smith had locked his keys in his vehicle and could not get help. He called the police and made a comment (in frustration) about what does one have to do to get help "Fire A Gun In The Air"?.....or something similar. That is the TT charge.
He had advised the police he was openly carrying and at some time his clothes either obscured his weapon, because of loss of contrast or it became covered, thus the illegal CC charge.
His lawyer believes the charges should never have happened and will be dismissed.
I asked if a demonstration in his behalf would be acceptable and he agreed.
Should someone familiar with the area wish to set up a demonstration, I will be the 1st to volunteer.
Mr Smith has gotten a lot of flack, and some of it is understandable as his internet communications skills are not up to certain standards. I am flaming NO one at all. I understand some of it. The next part is up to us.
What say you?
Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 09:07 pm by TheMrMitch
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MrOverlay
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 09:35 pm |
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| If you are talking about a demonstration of support that is one thing, but if you are talking about a demonstration involving objects, such as guns and holsters, that might be a problem.
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TheMrMitch
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 09:40 pm |
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That's why I threw the question out. Dunno what would be the best in this case, though I cannot see where open carry at the time would hurt.
He needs our support, and a point could be made. Just throwing this out for the members.
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MrOverlay
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 10:59 pm |
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Well your never going to get in the courthouse, well not without a real fun situation. Standing out on the sidewalk is probably not going to do much, although the LEO's of Louisville might be fun to watch. The jury is not going to know about it, and if they do, they will probably be removed from the jury for one reason or another.
Since only probably two maybe three people know what actually happened that day/night, I would suspect the list of witnesses will be very short.
My 2 cents.
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Whtdragn
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 14 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:26 am |
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You might be able to get some newspaper interests if you are willing to try and talk to a local reporter and maybe a TV news spot. I am not sure if you would get anywhere with a demonstration but there are some bus sign locations close to the court house and they might be nice for an opencarry.org sign and some nice comment.
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MrOverlay
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:24 am |
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I doubt the Courier Journal will be interested in any pro gun story. Any story they would do would be a hatchet job on guns in genreal and open carry in particular.
Good thought though with a fair minded paper.
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Whtdragn
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 14 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:41 pm |
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just and FYI
The outdoor advertising at one of the TARC stops is 300 a month plus 100 or so for printing costs. The cost can go up or down with location but right around the courthouse it would be close to that.
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Thos.Jefferson
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 7th, 2009 03:26 am |
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| I've been watching this story for some time now and feel I have to comment. After seeing the facts in the story one has to pose the question why would any one in their right mind call the police and say something like that? Is this guy to be the posterboy for open carry? I would personally love to go Downtown and protest in front of the courthouse while open carrying, Exspecially if some of the open carriers where off duty LEO , wearing street clothes . To hell with the newspaper lets call up WHAS-11 and get on TV!! Mr. Mitch I've read you are a corrections officer so that's cool. We need superdemon or whatever his name is, he says he's a cop. Here ya go bud, heres your chance to show your not just a Nazi in disguise. I read where you called that guy a "mall ninja" for doing opencarry in protest. Show us you really believe in the God given right for any man to carry a weapon for his own safety and piece of mind. Hit the bricks with us down on Jefferson st.
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 06:38 pm |
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Thos.Jefferson wrote: I've been watching this story for some time now and feel I have to comment. After seeing the facts in the story one has to pose the question why would any one in their right mind call the police and say something like that? Is this guy to be the posterboy for open carry? I would personally love to go Downtown and protest in front of the courthouse while open carrying, Exspecially if some of the open carriers where off duty LEO , wearing street clothes . To hell with the newspaper lets call up WHAS-11 and get on TV!! Mr. Mitch I've read you are a corrections officer so that's cool. We need superdemon or whatever his name is, he says he's a cop. Here ya go bud, heres your chance to show your not just a Nazi in disguise. I read where you called that guy a "mall ninja" for doing opencarry in protest. Show us you really believe in the God given right for any man to carry a weapon for his own safety and piece of mind. Hit the bricks with us down on Jefferson st.
Are you saying the last part of your post for ME? Then you haven't read carefully. I am not in support of Belize at all. I told everyone here that when the details started to come out, he would be shown to be hiding several facts.
His attorney can say all he wants, but the time for the charges to be "dismissed" are long gone. It's now down to a trial, and it's either going to be "guilty" or "not guilty". Now that the details are coming out, I ask the same thing; Do you want this character to be the poster boy for concealed carry? A man that called the police and made the statement he made? That was stupid act number one. Stupid act number two was KNOWING that police were going to be coming to see you, you don't take the time to MAKE SURE YOUR WEAPON STAYS IN A LEGAL CONDITION.
Again, I don't care what the attorney says about the clothes obscuring or covering the weapon, AS THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF CONCEALMENT, PEOPLE!!! Are you honestly expecting to get this guy an exception? He can conceal his weapon, or get sloppy and let it get concealed, and it's ok?
Really?
You really think that should be a positive defense for what happened? "My weapon is not concealed, my shirt is just covering it."
Really?
You must be out of your mind.
This case, more than any other, should point to the fact that we need to be careful, carry with due care, and not act like idiots in public, especially when LEOs are involved. If anything, this should be held up as an example of how not to conduct yourself when OCing. I really, really can't believe the continued support of this man or his actions. Some of you are truly blinded with fervor.
Even more relevant question...You want the general public to accept OC more readily, and the protests are going to do nothing but bring B4Me's actions to the front...You want the general public seeing his actions as being representative of the cause of OC?
Really?
We should be condoning his actions as an unfortunate confluence of behavior and attitude that does NOT represent what the majority (I hope) of OCers wish to convey as their own.
Last edited on Thu Mar 19th, 2009 10:39 pm by superdemon
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kyboyy
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 07:48 am |
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not to get on anyone's bad side on here , but i kinda have to agree with Superdemon on this... you don't call the police and say something like that. i know first hand that your mouth can definately get you in trouble with leo... you don't say that. when i do open carry, i make sure that my shirt is tucked in behind my holster so that its perfectly visible, they way i was told to carry because the second your shirt, sweat shirt, hoodie, jacket, anything covers it, it is concealed. i'm pretty new to owning a gun and definately new to open carrying, but even i know this.... for someone who's definately more experienced in this subject, he just should've known better.......
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Thos.Jefferson
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 08:16 am |
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| First off I never said I was this guys champion.I stated that I would love to open carry downtown IF some of the OCers were offduty LEO such as yourself. I couldn't agree more that this guy (b4me) is not the best candidate for OC poster boy, apparently he is not right in the head. You had stated that there is case law where the gun was clearly printing under the clothes and it was not considered to be concealed. Shouldn't this be a win? As far as the TT charge goes the case must be weak at best else the prosecutor wouldn't have offered a walk. Am I right or wrong?
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:24 pm |
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You're wrong on all counts.
1. I never said you were anyone's champion.
- What I said was that B4M's behavior was idiotic, yet there are people who are rallying to his defense. Why in the world would we want to hold up his behavior as a model of someone wrongly prosecuted through the criminal justice system? If a rally is held for this idiot, we will not be doing the OC movement any favors, and will be doing it much harm. We need to show the average citizen that while we support the right to OC, this is an example of irresponsible, irrational behavior, and we do not support it. If we jump on the bandwagon and support everyone who gets prosecuted, no matter how irrational and stupid their behavior is, we will be dismissed as a whole. We cannot (at least I will not) blanketly support people simply because they visit this forum, or ask for our help. We must (at least I will) have some sort of thought process and not get caught up in the hue and cry of everyone.
Some people who get arrested are actually guilty of a crime, you know.
2. Secondly, you question about the shirt/printing/concealment...
-You weren't there, I wasn't there, neither was anyone else in this forum except B4M, the LEO, and B4M's witness. It happened back in October. It was fairly cool then, and he says he was wearing a sweatshirt. I doubt that a sweatshirt would print enough to qualify for that condition. The other part of that is the fact that when you choose to carry OC, you must OC, especially if you are too stupid to go get a CC permit. It's a big responsibility, and it can get tricky to keep it open if you are not careful. Obviously, B4M was either sloppy, lazy, or had the weapon intentionally covered, then tried to uncover it when the LEO got there.
Let's be honest, the gun was probably concealed. I only say "probably" as I don't like to use absolutes when I am not a direct witness.
3. Your question about this being a "win"...
The time for "win" is over. Just like I said before, the time for "dismissed" is over. He was offered a way out of the situation in his preliminary hearing/probable cause hearing. Well, the probable cause held, or it would have been dismissed. Not a good sign for B4M. Trust me, if I send someone to jail, and the Commonwealth wins the preliminary hearing/probable cause hearing, I have about a 90% chance of winning the actual case. I'd have to really screw up in court in order to loose at that point. There is a retired trooper in these forums, ask him, and he will tell you the same thing.
Then you have people like Mr.Mitch on here. He's actually in the CJS, and doesn't realize he is being played by an attorney! This attorney could not care less what sort of crime his client committed, and doesn't care who wants to rally to his defense, as long as someone does. Of course the attorney wants a rally in his client's favor. He knows the case is a hard win, and will take whatever he can get. Did he think the attorney was going to say, "Why no, sir, I don't need any free help getting this client out of a charge that is cut and dry and he will be convicted of"?
I have tried to tell you guys that something was hinky about this whole thing for a while now. However, the attitude around here is that anyone's story, no matter how unbelievable, must be true and supported. There is very little independent free thought here. Lets start thinking for ourselves, instead of trying to find people who simply mirror our own opinions and parrot back and forth the same tired cliches and catchphrases.
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TheMrMitch
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:50 pm |
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"Then you have people like Mr.Mitch on here. He's actually in the CJS, and doesn't realize he is being played by an attorney!"
Uh...slow down dude. I know exactly what's going on, thank you. Do you?
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:56 pm |
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Yes I do. You are getting played. A decade around attorneys tells me so. Sorry for the wake-up call.
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TheMrMitch
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:04 pm |
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A decade. Well.....you do have a wee touch of experience. Do my six decades count?
I do credit your gumption, but experience does help. You will gain it in the future.
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:08 pm |
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TheMrMitch wrote: A decade. Well.....you do have a wee touch of experience. Do my six decades count?
I do credit your gumption, but experience does help. You will gain it in the future.
You make me laugh. And at 6 decades old, I would think that you would know when you are being played, but obviously you don't. Just because someone wants you to think that they think like you do, and use that to their advantage, doesn't mean they think like you.
And I may only have a decade in law enforcement, but I have nearly 4 decades just being around.
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TheMrMitch
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:23 pm |
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Glad you're laughing because we laugh together.
Dunno why a learned one such as yourself (you say) must keep reminding posters here of your status and experience in almost every post.....do you forget? We can't. It is quite noticeable. Insecurity?
You might be a nice fella.....if you turn your attacks down and give others credit for having some sense.
Now. I'm off for a nice breakfast.
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:40 pm |
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TheMrMitch wrote: Glad you're laughing because we laugh together.
Dunno why a learned one such as yourself (you say) must keep reminding posters here of your status and experience in almost every post.....do you forget? We can't. It is quite noticeable. Insecurity?
You might be a nice fella.....if you turn your attacks down and give others credit for having some sense.
Now. I'm off for a nice breakfast.
I'm glad you went here. Let's talk about you in just a second, but first...
I remind people in posts because a lot of people seems to just read parts of posts, then go argue the parts of the post they read, without reading the whole thing. Plus you have new guys/gals in here all the time.
Insecure? Nope. Not when I try my best to foster independent thought here. If I was insecure, I would be parrotting the herd mentality along with most everyone else here...
Now back to you. I have no idea what you are all about, but I know you may quite be the one who is "insecure". I will remind you and everyone else here about the post Mitch made about one time being asked if he was a cop when a citiaen saw his weapon. He lied to the person and said yes. I will remind you that Mitch is a corrections officer, but not a cop.
Now, Mitch seems to be a fellow on here who wants to get fired up and fight for our gol-durned right to OC. But, when confronted by a simple question, he chose to lie (to admittedly make is easier) than to tell the truth. Why is that? Were you afraid of the confrontation? Are you a wannabe?
If your wish is to truly educate people about OC, and you want to have a rally to support the soon-to-be-convicted B4M, why not take the time to either 1) Explain that you were a corrections officer, or 2) explain that OC was completely legal?
Why did you not choose either of those options? Why did you have to go the admittedly "easier" route? I certainly don't choose to go that way, and I don't choose to go the easy way in here...
Six decades, and you would rather roll over and take the easy way that stand up and explain the facts?
And, I rarely attack people, but I do attack their stupid ideas. Then they take it personally and think I am attacking them.
People need to drop the herd mentality, and more importantly, they need to stop thinking that they don't have herd mentality.
Last edited on Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:44 pm by superdemon
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 04:51 pm |
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Gentleman - neutral corners please.
Best to handle personal conversations through PMs unless there is a serious need to "out" a poster.
IMHO and worth what you paid for it.
Yata hey
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superdemon
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 06:00 pm |
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Grapeshot wrote: Gentleman - neutral corners please.
Best to handle personal conversations through PMs unless there is a serious need to "out" a poster.
IMHO and worth what you paid for it.
Yata hey
Ha ha. Yeah, it got a little heated, but it is very frustrating to see people doing damage to the OC movement by rallying around someone like B4M.
I ask only one last time...
Is B4M the person who we feel truly represents a person who was/is wrongfully prosecuted for CC? Even after his attorney admits that the weapon was obscured? Is that the image we want pushed to the general public as responsible, socially acceptable OC?
ANd like I have said before, every now and then, we do manage to put a guilty man in jail, even if he is one of your own.
Last edited on Fri Mar 20th, 2009 06:08 pm by superdemon
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