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Statesman
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 10:06 pm |
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Former Kentucky Council of Churches, Nancy Jo Kemper emailed the following to Kruser, on WVLK 590 AM, in Lexington. Kruser subsequently read this on air, and is now repeating it each time the subject comes up, even though we both have referenced the restrictions in KRS 237.110, which do not seem to support this statement. http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/237-00/110.PDF
Someone please assist in rebutting this claim, unless it is accurate. Please provide evidence to support the rebuttal, so I can ask Kruser to correct this on air.
People listening to his show now believe it's illegal to carry into church, based on the claim below, which cites no supporting evidence.
Subject : FW: Guns in church
It is illegal to carry concealed in church unless you are a minister or church officer so far as I know. That was the only modification in 1998 to the regulation that originally did NOT allow concealed carry in churches. The modification to the absolute prohibition was snuck in to another piece of legislation on the last day of the 98 session. Nancy J Kemper Private citizen --retired
The only thing I can find were the Acts references at the bottom of KRS 527.110:
Amended 1998 Ky. Acts ch. 417, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; ch. 494, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; and ch. 606, sec. 136, effective July 15, 1998.
.. however, I cannot find any text for these acts.
Last edited on Mon Jun 29th, 2009 10:47 pm by Statesman
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fin88
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| Joined: | Thu Oct 16th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 12:54 am |
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I heard the first few minutes of his show, I usually don't listen, but I made an effort to try today after hearing the question of the day. I had to be away from my computer and a radio so I didn't get to hear all of his show, I probably would have steam coming out of my ears if I heard Nancy's comments being read on the air.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/recarch/00rs/HB156.htm
This is HB156 which passed in 2000, and it removed any restriction on carry in a church (except for the obvious stuff written elsewhere like felony)
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statrev/Tables/00rs/acts00RS(BillTable).htm
This lists the acts of 2000, specifically Chapter 455 which is at:
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/Statrev/ACTS2000/0455.pdf (PDF) go to page six to confirm that the church carry restriction is removed.
Of course all of this tells us what we already know, that there is no law prohibiting the carry of weapons in churches by qualified individuals. You still need to follow the wishes of your religious organization, but the state law prohibiting it simply is not on the books.
That's the only rebuttal that I have. Put simply Nancy needs to provide evidence to support her claim.
Greg
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gutshot
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 12:56 am |
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Statesman wrote: Former Kentucky Council of Churches, Nancy Jo Kemper emailed the following to Kruser, on WVLK 590 AM, in Lexington. Kruser subsequently read this on air, and is now repeating it each time the subject comes up, even though we both have referenced the restrictions in KRS 237.110, which do not seem to support this statement. http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/237-00/110.PDF
Someone please assist in rebutting this claim, unless it is accurate. Please provide evidence to support the rebuttal, so I can ask Kruser to correct this on air.
People listening to his show now believe it's illegal to carry into church, based on the claim below, which cites no supporting evidence.
Subject : FW: Guns in church
It is illegal to carry concealed in church unless you are a minister or church officer so far as I know. That was the only modification in 1998 to the regulation that originally did NOT allow concealed carry in churches. The modification to the absolute prohibition was snuck in to another piece of legislation on the last day of the 98 session. Nancy J Kemper Private citizen --retired
The only thing I can find were the Acts references at the bottom of KRS 527.110:
Amended 1998 Ky. Acts ch. 417, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; ch. 494, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; and ch. 606, sec. 136, effective July 15, 1998.
.. however, I cannot find any text for these acts.
I cannot find nor do I know of any such restriction in the current concealed carry law. If such language exists it would not, of course, restrict the open carry of a firearm in church. Someone needs to make Ms. Kemper cite this restriction.
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Statesman
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:57 pm |
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fin88 wrote: I heard the first few minutes of his show, I usually don't listen, but I made an effort to try today after hearing the question of the day. I had to be away from my computer and a radio so I didn't get to hear all of his show, I probably would have steam coming out of my ears if I heard Nancy's comments being read on the air.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/recarch/00rs/HB156.htm
This is HB156 which passed in 2000, and it removed any restriction on carry in a church (except for the obvious stuff written elsewhere like felony)
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statrev/Tables/00rs/acts00RS(BillTable).htm
This lists the acts of 2000, specifically Chapter 455 which is at:
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/Statrev/ACTS2000/0455.pdf (PDF) go to page six to confirm that the church carry restriction is removed.
Of course all of this tells us what we already know, that there is no law prohibiting the carry of weapons in churches by qualified individuals. You still need to follow the wishes of your religious organization, but the state law prohibiting it simply is not on the books.
That's the only rebuttal that I have. Put simply Nancy needs to provide evidence to support her claim.
Greg
Thanks. I passed this information along to Kruser.
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Butterbone
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 07:15 pm |
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I imagine if you wanted, you could challenge any state law restricting what you can and can't do in a church.
A state law...telling you what you can and cannot do.....in a church!!!
People can still request quarter from a church and as long as the church agrees, the federal government can't enter the church and take them out. Unless that changed at some point.
DOH I guess it did change, legally. They are still doing it and alot of federal agencies have an unofficial policy on it, so the FBI won't kick down a church door to grab a criminal who isn't a full on murderer or something.
But they can still get a warrant and come in. They just choose not to.
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 07:25 pm by Butterbone
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Statesman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 09:54 pm |
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Kruser made the correction on air. Thanks for the quick response!
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KBCraig
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| Joined: | Tue Aug 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Northeast Texas |
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:22 am |
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Butterbone wrote: People can still request quarter from a church and as long as the church agrees, the federal government can't enter the church and take them out. Unless that changed at some point.
DOH I guess it did change, legally. They are still doing it and alot of federal agencies have an unofficial policy on it, so the FBI won't kick down a church door to grab a criminal who isn't a full on murderer or something.
But they can still get a warrant and come in. They just choose not to.
The U.S. has never recognized the doctrine of sanctuary. There have been cases of illegal immigrants seeking and being granted sanctuary by churches, but the only thing restricting the government from entering and removing the person was concern for bad P.R.
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mellio
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 07:43 am |
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Butterbone wrote: I imagine if you wanted, you could challenge any state law restricting what you can and can't do in a church.
A state law...telling you what you can and cannot do.....in a church!!!
People can still request quarter from a church and as long as the church agrees, the federal government can't enter the church and take them out. Unless that changed at some point.
DOH I guess it did change, legally. They are still doing it and alot of federal agencies have an unofficial policy on it, so the FBI won't kick down a church door to grab a criminal who isn't a full on murderer or something.
But they can still get a warrant and come in. They just choose not to.
Pretty sure snake handling is illegal. One example that the state does sometimes say what you can or can't do in church.
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KBCraig
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Aug 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Northeast Texas |
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 08:11 am |
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mellio wrote: Pretty sure snake handling is illegal. One example that the state does sometimes say what you can or can't do in church. You can't:
- advocate for or against any candidate in a partisan political race without losing tax-exempt status
- marry prohibited persons (blood relatives, those under age, polygamists, etc.)
- use "unapproved" sacraments like ganja or peyote
- conduct animal sacrifices that might rise to the level of animal cruelty
The government has a solid history of interfering in religious freedom.
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