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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:04 pm |
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langzaiguy wrote: BB62: Can you post the pdf that he sent you?
??????
Just what do you think the text below my "Got this PDF from Chad Everett" is???
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:11 pm |
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gutshot wrote: BB62 wrote: 01.06 General Public and Miscellaneous
(15) Firearms, Weapons
(A) The possession of, use or storage of any firearm, ammunition, explosive or destructive device, or other deadly weapon in any form, is PROHIBITED on any area of Kenton County Airport Board property to which access is controlled by the inspection of Persons and property, (KRS 237.110(12)(g)); in the airport police station, (KRS 237.110(12)(a)); in any portion of the airport licensed to dispense beer and alcoholic beverages, (KRS 237.110(12)(e)); or any other place on airport property where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law, (KRS 237.110(12)(I))...
Blue highlighting is mine.
I've only been looking at this for about 10 mins. and already I see that the highlighted statutes do not exist online. It is possible that newer versions of these statutes exist, but...
If you look carefully, you will find that the numbers are different for reasons I cannot explain.
For instance, the cited KRS 237.110(12)(g)) appears to be 16(g).
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/237-00/110.PDF
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:20 pm |
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BB62 wrote: langzaiguy wrote: BB62: Can you post the pdf that he sent you?
??????
Just what do you think the text below my "Got this PDF from Chad Everett" is???
He wants you to attach the actual pdf doc - use the browse button to find the file and attach.
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:40 pm |
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Mike wrote: He wants you to attach the actual pdf doc - use the browse button to find the file and attach.
Attachment: CVG Rules and Regs - firearms.pdf (Downloaded 15 times) Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:40 pm by BB62
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langzaiguy
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:51 pm |
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Thanks BB62. It was just for clarity. It wasn't for verification, and hostility certainly isn't necessary. Also, for some reason, in my mind I thought the PDF he gave you was the actually set of airport ordinances. I don't see too many letters in PDF form.
We definitely need to address the fabricated Kentucky statutes the Board's ordinance referred to. It would be great if we could actually get a copy of their ordinances so we can more accurately move on this. Don't know how we go about this though....
Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 04:00 pm by langzaiguy
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:57 pm |
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langzaiguy wrote: ...We definitely need to address the fabricated Kentucky statutes the Board's ordinance referred to. It would be great if we could actually get a copy of their ordinances so we can more accurately move on this. Don't know how we go about this though....
I wouldn't say they're fabricated statutes - they exist, but are not numbered correctly for some reason.
The problem is as Mike stated - they're trying to enforce an administrative rule as if it has the law behind it - and best as I can tell, it doesn't.
As for not knowing how to go about it - what RKBA organizations does KY have? Do you know any firearms activists?Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 03:58 pm by BB62
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gutshot
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 04:41 pm |
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BB62 wrote: gutshot wrote: BB62 wrote: 01.06 General Public and Miscellaneous
(15) Firearms, Weapons
(A) The possession of, use or storage of any firearm, ammunition, explosive or destructive device, or other deadly weapon in any form, is PROHIBITED on any area of Kenton County Airport Board property to which access is controlled by the inspection of Persons and property, (KRS 237.110(12)(g)); in the airport police station, (KRS 237.110(12)(a)); in any portion of the airport licensed to dispense beer and alcoholic beverages, (KRS 237.110(12)(e)); or any other place on airport property where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law, (KRS 237.110(12)(I))...
Blue highlighting is mine.
I've only been looking at this for about 10 mins. and already I see that the highlighted statutes do not exist online. It is possible that newer versions of these statutes exist, but...
If you look carefully, you will find that the numbers are different for reasons I cannot explain.
For instance, the cited KRS 237.110(12)(g)) appears to be 16(g).
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/237-00/110.PDF
Well, then he's quoting the concealed carry law to justify the restriction on "any firearm".
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 04:52 pm |
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gutshot wrote: Well, then he's quoting the concealed carry law to justify the restriction on "any firearm".
Is it really necessary to quote the entirety of a (large) previous post just for a one sentence reply??
You're right about (g), but (h) covers disallowing open carry in this case.
I, and I think everyone else get your point, but your're picking at nits. The specific section cites are not the problem here.
Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 04:53 pm by BB62
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langzaiguy
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 05:12 pm |
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On a positive note:
I received an email back from Mr. Ziegler, the attorney representing the airport board. This is his response to my email indicating that I had intentions to open carry or conceal carry on airport property:
"I in no way wish to advise you or represent your interests in this matter, but as a courtesy, I note that to "conceal carry" in Kentucky where the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is located you are required to have a valid state permit from Kentucky or one from another state that is recognized in Kentucky.
Wilbert L. Ziegler"
I thought he would warn me or threaten me not to carry anywhere near the airport. He seems to acknowledge our right to carry at the airport. Coming from the board's legal representation, that sounds pretty promising.
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Malum Prohibitum
Regular Member
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Offline
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 05:24 pm |
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langzaiguy wrote: I received an email back from Mr. Ziegler, the attorney representing the airport board.
"I in no way wish to advise you or represent your interests in this matter, but as a courtesy, I note that to "conceal carry" in Kentucky where the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is located you are required to have a valid state permit from Kentucky or one from another state that is recognized in Kentucky.
Wilbert L. Ziegler"
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 05:30 pm |
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Malum Prohibitum wrote:
Can you elaborate?
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 05:32 pm |
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langzaiguy wrote: ...I thought he would warn me or threaten me not to carry anywhere near the airport. He seems to acknowledge our right to carry at the airport. Coming from the board's legal representation, that sounds pretty promising.
(my emphasis above)
I wouldn't go that far. Remember, the signage is not "at the airport", it's only on the passenger terminal doors - not in the parking garage or the cell phone parking/waiting areas.
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BusinessCards
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Aug 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Cincinnati |
| Posts: | 20 |
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Offline
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 05:59 pm |
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This thread is just fascinating to me. I've been working at this airport for a few years now. So I have to disarm before going thru the checkpoint.
All other times, though, I conceal carry if I'm not going thru security. I never knew it was a problem. The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint.
I always wondered about open carry around the baggage claim/ticket counter areas. I've never tried it, but am curious about the legality of doing so.
I really appreciate all the work you guys are doing trying to get information. Thanks!!
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 06:15 pm |
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BusinessCards wrote: This thread is just fascinating to me...
...The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint...
I always wondered about open carry around the baggage claim/ticket counter areas. I've never tried it, but am curious about the legality of doing so.
I really appreciate all the work you guys are doing trying to get information. Thanks!!
(my emphasis)
Uh-huh.
This from the guy who said this: (first page)??
BusinessCards wrote:
The cop told you that carrying concealed in any of the airport buildings is illegal. He also told you that open carrying is ok, but would justifiably draw the ire of police. What is the problem? It's an airport for crying out loud.
(again, my emphasis)
ROFL!! What's your angle?
BTW - The signs DON'T just say "no guns past the checkpoint".
You need to read the thread (you know, the one you say you've been reading!) more carefully.
Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 06:17 pm by BB62
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gutshot
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 06:35 pm |
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BB62 wrote: gutshot wrote: Well, then he's quoting the concealed carry law to justify the restriction on "any firearm".
Is it really necessary to quote the entirety of a (large) previous post just for a one sentence reply??
You're right about (g), but (h) covers disallowing open carry in this case.
I, and I think everyone else get your point, but your're picking at nits. The specific section cites are not the problem here.
That is exactly my point. He is using the concealed carry law to justify a ban on carrying any firearm in any manner. (h) was not part of his original post, but in any case (h) only concerns one factor that might disqualify an applicant from obtaining a CCDW, again it has nothing to do with any other mode of carry. It doesn't matter if the paragraphs are numbered or lettered, are 12 or 16, are (a) or (g). That is the concealed carry law. It does not apply to open carry. There is no law, that I know of in KY, against carrying a gun openly into a police station or carrying an unloaded, unconcealed gun into a bar and that is word for word what they say they are prohibiting [read Paragraph 15(A) in the PDF above]. Nits are exactly what get picked when you go in front of a judge or plan a strategy to do so or explain to someone else what might be your strategy against them in court.
Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 07:37 pm by gutshot
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 07:06 pm |
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BusinessCards wrote: The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint.
OK, can you get photos of all the signs so we can see what is going on?
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BusinessCards
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Aug 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Cincinnati |
| Posts: | 20 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 01:43 am |
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BB62 wrote: BusinessCards wrote: This thread is just fascinating to me...
...The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint...
I always wondered about open carry around the baggage claim/ticket counter areas. I've never tried it, but am curious about the legality of doing so.
I really appreciate all the work you guys are doing trying to get information. Thanks!!
(my emphasis)
Uh-huh.
This from the guy who said this: (first page)??
BusinessCards wrote:
The cop told you that carrying concealed in any of the airport buildings is illegal. He also told you that open carrying is ok, but would justifiably draw the ire of police. What is the problem? It's an airport for crying out loud.
(again, my emphasis)
ROFL!! What's your angle?
BTW - The signs DON'T just say "no guns past the checkpoint".
You need to read the thread (you know, the one you say you've been reading!) more carefully.
I thank you for emphasizing things in my posts, but I really don't see how the two sentences relate. My initial reaction to the cop's email to the OP was one of understanding. I understood the cop's stance on the issue. At the same time, I am very greatful that you folks are working on getting solid answers to our questions.
Regarding what the signs say or don't say: I look at the sign by the checkpoint everyday, but I don't use passenger entryways to the unsecured areas of the airport. So I am not sure what's printed on the doors for the public. I've read this thread, and I didn't see any pictures of gunbuster signs on those doors. Sorry if I missed them.
Mamma always told me, "If it ain't worth saying without parantheses, it ain't worth saying."
Mike wrote: BusinessCards wrote: The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint.
OK, can you get photos of all the signs so we can see what is going on?
My mom died yesterday. So I won't be back to work until Monday, but I am more than happy to take photos of any gunbuster signs that I can find.
Last edited on Sat Aug 15th, 2009 01:44 am by BusinessCards
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langzaiguy
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 03:07 am |
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| Business: Condolences, man. Hang in there.
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SA-TX
Centurion Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 03:36 am |
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Mike wrote: BusinessCards wrote: The signs just say not to take guns past the checkpoint.
OK, can you get photos of all the signs so we can see what is going on?
Mike & everyone,
I just returned to DFW from CVG. Had I read this request an hour or so earlier than I did, I could have taken a picture with my cell phone. The text that is on the doors is just as stated in the original post.
I've not researched Kentucky law enough to be of any help, but if it is like TX and only the STERILE part of the terminal is against the law then the airport authority is trying to enforce a rule unsupported by statute.
On a similar note, if I recall correctly, Dallas-Love Field still has some old verbage posted too. D/FW airport seems to be fully compliant though. 
BTW -- this text box doesn't translate well on pocket Internet Explorer and while I could read this thread while on the road, I could not post.  Just FYI.
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gutshot
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 05:14 am |
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Mike wrote: wow, lots of new info - so to summarize, I think, the County has no ordiance banning concealed carry at the airport, and the airport board has promulgated a preempted and unenforceable gun ban, right?
If so, the Airport authority needs to be made to remove their illegal gun ban signs.
My deepest condolences to BisinessCards and his family.
Good news and bad news here. I found a Kenton County ordinance prohibiting concealed carry in all county buildings. It's in the attached .pdf. The Airport Board appears on the county's web site as a county agency so....
If the airport is public property (Kenton County) it appears they can, and have, properly prohibited concealed carry from the buildings. The text of the signage in the ordinance is exactly the same as that in the OP. It would then follow that they could not prohibit open carry under any circumstances. That would give them nothing but the DC charge. I think we all believe that won't fly. We seem to have come full circle here.
Attachment: Kenton Co..pdf (Downloaded 14 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 15th, 2009 05:18 am by gutshot
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