| Author | Post |
|---|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 04:20 am |
|
OK Guys, every now and then on allmost every thread in this forum someone states that OC puts you at a disadvantage. I disagree and here's why.
first off, most of the people who attack others are cowards and prey on the weak. After all when was the last time some inner city type raped a 230 lb. man? Never that I know of. Now when was the last time a 132lb. woman was raped? Yesterday? 5 minutes ago? Probably.
My point is most of those who prey on others have no metal and will likely never enter into any confrontation they know they might lose.The weak and old/young are much easier targets (mugging the elderly, raping young women, etc.) Because the attacker has probably established if in his mind only,that resistance would be slim to none. Now, would that same attacker smash an old man in the mouth for $32.00 if he spotted a shiny 1911 on his hip? Remember the attacker is not a man of honor but an opportunist looking for an easy score on a defensive victim. No, more than likely not. Now if the same elderly gentleman was carrying concealed, no visible means of defense? Yea, and once smashed by a 19 to 26 year old street hardened thug would he have the presence of mind to dig out his sidearm or cover his head and hit the dirt?
Secondly , some attacks are of the "Bum rush" type where 2 or more attackers are just out to attack some one, any one , for a feeling of superiority, an adrenalin rush with no couincidence(I know I miss spelled that, sorry). This type of attack could hit any one unlucky enough to be in the parking lot, bus stop, flea market whayever, I have seen thease types of attacks on video at the wierdest places, front counter of McDonalds etc. This is why I open carry. Still , every time on video you can watch the attackers "sizing up" their victims. Does any one think this cowardly type of crap would swing at a man with his family having a Big Mac after seeing an XDM on his hip? I think not.With out it A middle class family man such as myself probably holds somewhere in the 100 point spread. Allthough extremely dangerous in packs thease types are still cowards at heart.
Case in point , a few weeks back while I was offshore my wife and 16 year old son were attacked at the same filling station 1 block from our house I mentioned earlier. Arter being struck in the face and arm by 2 grown men, my wife got away from the men when they attacked my son while trying to defend his mother and retrieved her Smith&Wesson .38 spcl. Once the pistol came out ALL ATTACKS STOPPED. Luckily the girl behind the bullet proof glass had all ready called 911. The cruisers showed up and my wife replaced her pistol to the front seat. "She has a gun!" The men shouted as they were being searched , hearing this one of the officers turned to my wife and asked if this were true. "Yes, my husbard works offshore and the kids and I are alone much of the time."He asked her if it was registered and she said no. He then asked her where she lived and she pointed down the road and gave her address. The officer replied "We'll take it from here mam, go home" Now , I have no doubt that had that Smith been on her hip, in plain sight, my wife would not have been struck in the face by a couple of chicken shi% cowards. In true coward form, once the gun came out they stopped and tried to play victim to the police. The point here is that the sight of that gun in her hard brought everything to a screeching halt.
SO, in conclusion, Open Carry a tactical disadvantage ? BULLSHI^
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 04:47 am |
|
| BTW, I live on the West Bank of New Orleans, the highest rated city for murder per capita in our country, violent crime strikes my neighbors, friends and family. Please keep in mind my opinion is biased becouse of where I live. I just see an exposed means of self defence as much more a deterrant to crime than a disadvantage, after all we are not ninjas trying to sneak an attack on an unsuspecting advisary,if you present yourself as an easy target, guess what, you will be. we are not on the offence but rather the defense, the suprise "attack" just doesn't serve us. I would rather be seen as more trouble than I'm worth than an easy score.You don't think the average piece o ' shi@ that wants what's in your pocket wont kill you for it? Think again.You also don't think that before he takes his cheap shot at you he hasn't allready sized you up and convinced himself you are an easy mark? He looks at your clothes, your car, your watch,your age, decides if you are big enough to put up a fight etc. Now, as he sizes you up, see's you are a typical white male , not unusually big, not a pro football player and not armed,guess what, if he left the projects looking for a score , you're it. Same man , same situation only this time carrying , nope , can't smoke crack if he shoots me in the face. See where I'm going with this? Paranoid I am not, realist definately. I stomp every inch of the chocolate city, I just do it armed. My wife rarely leaves the house while I am gone and that sadens me , my kids do school and that's it , to make up for it when Daddy gets home We squeese every kool thing we can out of this great city.We see everything and go everywhere. So when the crack heads, muggers or the gang wanna be's look for a target , it's not gonna be me or mine. By excersizing my right to Open Carry I am making sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, for all thugs to see, I AM MOST DEFINATLY MORE TROUBLE THAN I AM WORTH. Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2009 05:14 am by CaptainDan
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 05:31 am |
|
I like your stance 
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 05:34 am |
|
Johnny_B wrote: I like your stance
Thank you brother,
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 05:59 am |
|
I've actually been thinking about OCing the next time I head over to new orleans, but haven't really wanted to cause I don't know how well that would go over as my first OC experience >.> (gotta wait for X months for my Ms slip  ) might go to slidel or something else, cause I want to OC to get some experience in.
But as I said I do like your stance because it makes sense, who wants to f@$% with someone who's got a glock, 1911, beretta, hand cannon, taser, WHATEVER strapped on their hip? Hmmm guy with gun, or idiot walking down a dark alley...
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:06 am |
|
| Believe it or not , as I said I carry EVERYWHERE I GO IN NEW ORLEANS. literally. And have only had 1 encounter (detained in home depot) and even that didn't amount to much. I really don't think you'll have any prob what so ever.
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:12 am |
|
I may have to do that next time I head down there; however, I'm not to sure about the holster I have currently, a military M9 holster
I was going to get myself a paddle holster for my beretta Px4 that holds a tac light but my fiance is making me wait until my birthday cause she wants to get it for me
Donno if that type of holster would be a problem since it 'conceals' most of the gun (technical BS)...and I can't get the holster I want cause my fiance will flip out 
Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:12 am by Johnny_B
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:26 am |
|
| Man I know for a fact there have been arrests for "attempting to conceal" on people using military style holsters. The outcome I don't know but the arrests I am sure about.That is the only leg they realy have to stand on is the concealed issue. I use a black leather belt holster built for concealed carry (popular brand Just dont remember the name) but I carry an XDM, a pretty good sized weapon, and my shirt tucks behind it nicely. No chance of mistaking it for concealed. I think the flap that covers the grip is the issue. They know it is a gun but can't see it. I don't know brother, you could probably beat it in court after the arrest but who wants to go through all that? Don't know man, I stay clear of those kinds of holsters but that is just me. I got my holster for about $50.00 at Gretna gun Works. There are all types of generic holsters for less that would probably fit your gun for much less. You may not have any trouble at all , Only one way to find out, huh? I am not brave enough to risk it myself.
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:28 am |
|
Yeah that's my stance, why risk it? I think I'll get the holster and tell her to get the light 
Back on topic, your correct! >.>
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:38 am |
|
Johnny_B wrote: Yeah that's my stance, why risk it? I think I'll get the holster and tell her to get the light
Back on topic, your correct! >.>
Yea, New Orleans has treated me pretty well so far. I posted my only negative experience on "Detained in Home Depot" The situation turned out pretty well all in all though.
|
JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 129 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 01:17 pm |
|
CaptainDan wrote: ...after all we are not ninjas trying to sneak an attack on an unsuspecting advisary...
Excellent point. This is what has always crossed my mind when I hear people talking about "tactical advantage" in relation to concealed and open carry. We carry for self defense. I would rather the criminal leave me and mine alone than be provoked to draw and possibly fire my weapon because the criminal thinks I'm unarmed.
Concealed carry is good because a law abiding citizen is armed. The deterrent factor lies in the hope that the criminal believes there is a significant chance his victim(s) will be armed in a given instance. The criminal doesn't know anyone is armed. With open carry the criminal knows his risk is increased. If this were not the case we wouldn't have people postulating that the open carrier would be shot first to remove the risk. The bottom line is both open and concealed carry are good but open carry is a more effective deterrent because of what the criminal knows.
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 01:52 pm |
|
JT wrote: CaptainDan wrote: ...after all we are not ninjas trying to sneak an attack on an unsuspecting advisary...
Excellent point. This is what has always crossed my mind when I hear people talking about "tactical advantage" in relation to concealed and open carry. We carry for self defense. I would rather the criminal leave me and mine alone than be provoked to draw and possibly fire my weapon because the criminal thinks I'm unarmed.
Concealed carry is good because a law abiding citizen is armed. The deterrent factor lies in the hope that the criminal believes there is a significant chance his victim(s) will be armed in a given instance. The criminal doesn't know anyone is armed. With open carry the criminal knows his risk is increased. If this were not the case we wouldn't have people postulating that the open carrier would be shot first to remove the risk. The bottom line is both open and concealed carry are good but open carry is a more effective deterrent because of what the criminal knows.
Correct.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:59 pm |
|
| Let me add, I do not in any way, shape, or form condem any one for carrying concealed, it just isn't for me.
|
cajunpapapump
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 07:47 pm |
|
 Good posts and replys. Boy that holster sure does hide the weapon. I use the blackhawk sepra for my XD40, I chose it because I like the locking feature it has and the release is pretty useful.
|
JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 129 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 07:52 pm |
|
CaptainDan wrote: Let me add, I do not in any way, shape, or form condem any one for carrying concealed, it just isn't for me.
Understood. I hope my post didn't make you think I was implying that you were anti-CC. I just appreciated your comment concerning the "tactical advantage" arguments.
I prefer to carry open. Circumstances don't always make that possible. I want both options available for self defense. Tactical advantage has absolutely nothing to do with my reasons for or my method of carrying a firearm.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 07:55 pm |
|
| I don't mean to wander off topic but I have heard good things about the Black Hawk Serpa. The holster I use is actually made for the XD 45, the XDM is bigger than the XD but about the same size as the XD 45 so it fits like it was made for it. At the time I was hunting a holster the XDM was still new and not many holsters were available then, but the one I have fit so well I haven't tried to replace it yet. Also I like the fact that the leather holsters hug the body better and don't pinch when I drive or sit. Nothing against the hard type, I just carry EVERYWHERE and my pistol is bulky enough. Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2009 08:00 pm by CaptainDan
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 07:57 pm |
|
JT wrote: CaptainDan wrote: Let me add, I do not in any way, shape, or form condem any one for carrying concealed, it just isn't for me.
Understood. I hope my post didn't make you think I was implying that you were anti-CC. I just appreciated your comment concerning the "tactical advantage" arguments.
I prefer to carry open. Circumstances don't always make that possible. I want both options available for self defense. Tactical advantage has absolutely nothing to do with my reasons for or my method of carrying a firearm.
No offence taken Brother, just trying not to step on any toes. In my opinion everyone's point is valued.
|
Jerry McBride
Founder's Club Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 09:14 pm |
|
CaptainDan - Not good that your family was assaulted. Hope they are okay, physically and mentally.
Many OCers agree with your post, maybe 'tactically' that would be a requirement. There is no debate on tactics for me personally, either OC or leave it in the truck (no permit).
Discussions on this 'tactical' advantage/disadvantage, here and elsewhere, don't explore what I believe is the most important point. There is a group, or subset if you will, of CCers who shoot and practice regularly, compete, seek advanced training, have life experiences and job skills most of us do not and that advocate the 'tactical' advantage(s) they will have. This group, IMO, would have a definite 'tactical' advantage. The people in this group would also have a 'tactical' advantage in some situations even if not armed. As noted, this is a much smaller group than the total of all CHP holders.
IMO an OCer would not suffer 'tactical' disadvantages compared with most CCers.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 10:01 pm |
|
Jerry McBride wrote: CaptainDan - Not good that your family was assaulted. Hope they are okay, physically and mentally.
Many OCers agree with your post, maybe 'tactically' that would be a requirement. There is no debate on tactics for me personally, either OC or leave it in the truck (no permit).
Discussions on this 'tactical' advantage/disadvantage, here and elsewhere, don't explore what I believe is the most important point. There is a group, or subset if you will, of CCers who shoot and practice regularly, compete, seek advanced training, have life experiences and job skills most of us do not and that advocate the 'tactical' advantage(s) they will have. This group, IMO, would have a definite 'tactical' advantage. The people in this group would also have a 'tactical' advantage in some situations even if not armed. As noted, this is a much smaller group than the total of all CHP holders.
IMO an OCer would not suffer 'tactical' disadvantages compared with most CCers.
Thank You for the concern, the wife had bruises the son came out OK, physically both are fine now. The wife is scared to leave the house while I'm gone and tries to keep the kids locked up too till I get home. As I said though I have 1 week off every 2 weeks so when I'm home I drag the family everywhere , I try to make it up to them (being locked up at home 2 weeks at a time) My wife does keep her revolver in her car when buisness, shopping,etc takes her out of the safety of her home. and when I'm home we shoot alot, so she is quite proficient with it. Every time I get home one of the first things she does is get my gun,wallet and watch out of the safe for me. She is much more at ease and feels totaly safe while with me while we are out, however when our ramblings find us in a questionable part of town I have cought her looking to make sure I am carrying.Some times she will even ask, "you have your gun, right?"
And I agree 100% with your post . A tactical advantage is gained more through training than style of carry in my opinion. Besides once you are struck in the head (because visible signs of defence are absent, no one is going to attack an armed man) do you have the presence of mind to dig out a weapon tucked under your shirt or inside the waistband of your pants?
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 10:36 pm |
|
You know, one other thought. It might even be that OCers actually have the advantage if for no other reason than we know everyone can see our weapon and am more aware of our suroundings , I know that while I don't suspect every one is out to get me, I am careful not to let groups of people stand directly behind me. if they do an occasional head turn with a smile or nod lets them know (politely and in a friendly manor) that i am aware they are there. Also I allways make sure when walking or standing in a crowd , my elbow rests against my side arm. It naturally rests there any way and if any one did try to disarm me they would have to knock my arm away first. Also when in large crowds I often speak to people in close proximity to me, this to me gives me a feeling of the mood of things. Usually a smile followed by somthing like , "wow , they realy need to open more checkouts, huh?"
People usually peg me as a friendly, happy go lucky kinda guy becouse of my conduct where strtangers are concerned. It isn't that I'm trying to make new friends out of strangers as much as weighing the enviornment I am currently stuck in.Also you can check out the shifty drug slinger looking type much easier if you BRIEFLTY exchange greetings with him. To just stare blankly is in itself rude and suspicious. And could provoke an attack. "How ya doin?" rarely invites trouble where an odvious 3 minute silent size up might.
Just my take on things, besides if somthing does go terribly wrong it would be nice for the witnesses to tell police "that man was very polite and was bothering no one talking to the gentleman behind him in line." instead of "That man was just staring at him with a mean look on his face and the other man said watta you lookin at? and that is where it started"
Any way that is just how I carry myself in public, I think it gives me a better picture of the types of people standing around me and makes it easier to identify any possible threat while better protecting myself from losing my side arm to a suprise snatching. Also I like to think it makes all of us (OCers) look like regular Joe's instead of trouble hunting ex-military violence hounds, I know some people are gonna think what they want but why add fuel to the fire.
|
Current time is 06:18 am | Page: 1 2 3 4 5   |
|
|
|
