| Author | Post |
|---|
whoopingllama
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:35 am |
|
Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.
Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.
So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:47 am |
|
Hate to hear that, I have carried in the Marrero wal mart (both of them ) with no incident. Some one said , there is even a thread on here somewhere about it, They have a copy of or were told by corporate, that wal mart has a policy of following the law of the state in which the store is in. I am sure some one with better facts will come in before too long to help you.
My opinion, do what i did to home depot. go home, print up the laws and with a positive attitude, go back and give them to the people who confronted you, say thank you and leave.
Some times that works, sometimes it doesn't. good luck and sorry to hear you were screwed with.
By the way, anybody know anything about malls?
Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:49 am by CaptainDan
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:49 am |
|
whoopingllama wrote: Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.
Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.
So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
Customer no-Service, ask them what the policy is regarding state laws for firearms carry and such. Tell them what happened and such. People have already gotten statements that say wal-mart follows STATE LAW, not a managers preference. People's comfort is not a right, if their uncomfortable they should ask questions, not b@$%^ moan and whine to the manager about you.
|
charlie12
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:57 am |
|
I would call corporate tell them what happened. From everything I've read over the years on other gun forums if it legal on your state its OK.
Since it seems in your case they had no complaints only the manager didn't want you to carry they might set that manager straight.
Good luck and let us know what happenes.
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 01:26 pm |
|
whoopingllama wrote: Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.
So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
Just what law was the cop enforcing in the lot? Corporate policy is not a statutory matter, and a cop should only open his yap about such matters after receiving a complaint from a corporation. In no case, should the cops go soliciting violations to corporate policy.
It's getting bad.
The cop broke the law. File a complaint.
|
whoopingllama
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 03:03 pm |
|
I was still inside the store about to walk out. I wasn't in the parking lot. As far as law was concerned, he seemed to think he was enforcing the one that had to do with private property wherein the "owner" had requested their be no visible firearms on civilians. He was operating under what he was told by management there. And the management was very certain that it was store policy to not allow the open carrying of firearms by civilians. I never asked and he didn't say if someone else had said something or if he had just noticed me as I was walking out.
|
turbodog
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 03:05 pm |
|
whoopingllama wrote: Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.
Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.
So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
My understanding of the "private Property" thing is, that a business can't claim that as it has entrances open to public entry. A house qualifies as any entry is strictly at the owners permission only. Could be wrong on that of course.
There are threads on this site is several states forums regarding wal mart policy, so a search should find you the info you need. Find it a definitely check with wal mart customer service. Go as high as you need to to get a straight answer. It should match what others have gotten. Then be sure and go back to the manager with a copy and educate him/her.
|
XD-GEM
Activist Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:05 pm |
|
You handled it fairly well, IMHO. the LEO was probably doing an extra duty assignment and was just doing what the manager there asked him to do, so don't be too hard on him. Technically, if the manager tells you to leave, you must do so, even if you know that their corporate policy says otherwise. You can always go back later with a copy of the policy or simply call Walmart Corporate and lodge a complaint.
Somewhere on this board is a thread with a copy of a letter from Walmart stating it's policy. If you search for it you'll find it. If you can't find it, I'll try to post another copy of it later that I have saved on my home computer.
|
derf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 107 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:18 pm |
|
Of the three you mentioned, the Cortana Wal Mart is the one where you will most likely need to carry.
The LEO was almost certainly working a detail, paid by Wal Mart to provide security. If he asks you to leave because you were OCing then he is not breaking the law. He is implementing Wal Mart's right to ask you to leave. The problem is that the management of that store is not following company policy. The fight here is with the manager of that store.
I called the store. 225-923-3400
Manager Ralph Stewart told me that policy was no firearms allowed.
Ralph's boss, David Craft was in a meeting.
David's boss, Shawn Copeland was also unable to come to the phone.
Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.
Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:33 pm by derf
|
derf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 107 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:26 pm |
|
merged with above.
Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:33 pm by derf
|
Dustin
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 04:56 pm |
|
derf wrote:
I called the store. 225-923-3400
Manager Ralph Stewart told me that policy was no firearms allowed.
Ralph's boss, David Craft was in a meeting.
David's boss, Shawn Copeland was also unable to come to the phone.
Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.
You'll play this game for a few days if your up for it.
Call that 1800WalMart and see how far that gets you.
I know MEM posted the District Manager for LA on here somewhere. That's who you need to call. MORE than once she's had to handle this situation I believe.
|
Jerry McBride
Founder's Club Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:06 pm |
|
derf wrote:
Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.
Maybe you should suggest Ralph call 1800WalMart.
|
yale
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 06:40 pm |
|
This thread has contact info-> http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26362&forum_id=13&highlight=walmart+legal
good luck.
|
derf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 107 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 06:50 pm |
|
Call that 1800WalMart and see how far that gets you.
I tried. I got tired of waiting and hung up.
I asked for the district manager's number when he gave me the 800walmart number.
|
whoopingllama
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:05 pm |
|
Wow, I didn't expect such an awesome response. This is great. You are all incredibly helpful. I too will try to call when I get a chance to see if I can get anywhere. I just sent an email as well. I'll let y'all know if that gets any results.
|
JeepSeller
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Apr 21st, 2009 |
| Location: | Orlando, FL |
| Posts: | 125 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:56 pm |
|
It's not the cop's duty or even business to know Wal Mart's corporate policy. He was only acting in all likelyhood because the store manager..a representative of the property owner, asked him to.
You're problem lies with WalMart, not the cops in this instance. The cops have the duty to enforce property rights as much as your rights. Just as I have the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering my home, a business owner, also a property owner, has the same rights regarding his establishment. You also have the right to NOT come into my home as a result, just like you have a right to NOT go into that business.
File your complaint with WalMart. If the store manager does not know the corporate policy and/or violated it, corporate needs to know about it.
It looks as if you handled it in a polite, professional manner. Exactly the way we need to be conducting ourselves in public. Only then can we begin to shed the gun-toting wack-job image we're working so hard to shed. Create the change by being an ambassador to the cause, not part of the problem.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 02:03 am |
|
JeepSeller wrote: It's not the cop's duty or even business to know Wal Mart's corporate policy. He was only acting in all likelyhood because the store manager..a representative of the property owner, asked him to.
You're problem lies with WalMart, not the cops in this instance. The cops have the duty to enforce property rights as much as your rights. Just as I have the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering my home, a business owner, also a property owner, has the same rights regarding his establishment. You also have the right to NOT come into my home as a result, just like you have a right to NOT go into that business.
File your complaint with WalMart. If the store manager does not know the corporate policy and/or violated it, corporate needs to know about it.
It looks as if you handled it in a polite, professional manner. Exactly the way we need to be conducting ourselves in public. Only then can we begin to shed the gun-toting wack-job image we're working so hard to shed. Create the change by being an ambassador to the cause, not part of the problem.
Amen Brother --- I agree the situation was handeled properly and in no way was I casting stones at ANY ONE who would have handeled it differently. I also am most certainly not calling anyone of us a wack-job, just agreeing that we do to some have a negative image and such well handled responses help our cause more than a poorly exacuted shouting match.
Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 02:35 am by CaptainDan
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:04 am |
|
What few of you people seem to grasp in your analyses is that we are being invited into Wal-Mart, thus the legal term "invitees" and the corresponding legal duty owed such persons.
I often hear talk about a right to go here and there, but when we go into a store, it's because of their inducement to enter, not out of our desire to enter their store. They have the billboards, bright lights, wide entrances and prominent locations to lure us in. If they're going to remove their invitation, they have a legal obligation to be as absolutely polite about it as possible.
I keep my rights wherever I go. If you want me to enter, you accept that my rights come with me. If you want me to leave, you may get to ask, but you're going to be darn apologetic for the bait-and-switch that you just pulled.
We seem to have accepted a fascism, an inverted worldview, that considers the business the first actor and the citizens needy supplicants who are hoping to be allowed access to the Great Business. This corporatism is only a shade off national socialism, and I'm not exaggerating. We Americans need to pull our heads out of our behinds and start thinking clearly again.
If the business employs persons to remove invitations, these persons had darn well be meek and mild and exceedingly deferential in their demeanor. It's the poorest of manners to ask me in only to throw me out. To use or threaten force in the affront is simply intolerable.
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:15 am |
|
Another thing, once an OC'er has accepted an invitation into a store, it is absolutely unacceptable for the police to respond to a complaint from the store, absent more.
The only response to the store from a law-obeying, citizen-obeying police officer is:
"So? Is he doing anything wrong?"
"Well, no. We're just scared."
"Is it posted that OC'ers can't enter?"
"No."
"Then it's a private matter. You invited him in. Next time, limit the extent of your invitation. Call us if he does something wrong."
Police are not to engage in fascism by being tax-funded corporate security.
|
JeepSeller
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Apr 21st, 2009 |
| Location: | Orlando, FL |
| Posts: | 125 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:23 am |
|
smoking357 wrote: It's the poorest of manners to ask me in only to throw me out. To use or threaten force in the affront is simply intolerable.
Last I checked, manners were not spelled out by legal statute. Please cite your source.
Shirt and shoes have long since been accepted as "rules" for these establishments. They politely ask that you do not enter unless in compliance...in spite of their "invitation". You certainly have a right to go barefoot wouldn't you say? There's no laws that say you MUST wear shoes. But, a business has the right to require them and no one would argue that.
Asking, or "inviting" customers' to enter without weapons is no different. Yes, they've invited you, but, under their terms. No one would argue that simply because they "invited" you, that you could just help yourself to their possesions and walk out. As a GUEST of their property, you must act in accordance to the property owner's guidelines.
Just because I invite you into my home does not mean that I still cannot tell you to leave your muddy shoes outside. I still have the right to tell you to conduct yourself according to the rules of my home. You would not, for instance, be allowed to put your feet on my furnature, and it would be considered just plain rude of you and I would be well with in my right to tell you to leave and if you do not comply, I'd then be well within my rights to call the cops and have you forcibly removed.
|
Current time is 06:17 am | Page: 1 2 3 4   |
|
