| Author | Post |
|---|
IA-Pro
Regular Member
|
Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 03:01 pm |
|
Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.
I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?
I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before… 
|
mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
|
Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 05:57 pm |
|
If you feel someone else's life is in grave or serious danger of great bodily harm or death, yes, you CAN raise that as a defense, should some overzealous "law enforcement officer, DA or grand jury attempt to prosecute you.
IANAL, so check this out from as many sources as you wish.
As for not acting, well, there's no law requiring "law enforcement officers" to protect anyone, according to numerous court decisions. I don't see how us lowly non-sovereign citizens can be held to a higher standard, considering how they are so much smarter than us.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 06:27 pm |
|
IA-Pro wrote: Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.
I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?
I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before…
Yes you are protected under the law if you use deadly force to stop someone from injury or harm to another (the law is on this site in several different places, the heading is "USE OF DEADLY FORCE" I believe) I am on the boat offshore now but I have the laws printed up at home.
Take for example the elderly man that shot and killed an attacker violently beating an officer in Baton Rouge. The man was not prosecuted by the law, the family is trying to sue him, which will never fly. It has been going on for 6 years I believe (the civil suit) But he is in no trouble legally. The civil suit is a joke and will never go anywhere.
|
Anty506
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 59 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 08:27 pm |
|
IA-Pro,
I have been in covington everyday, so send me a PM if you would like to have lunch.
|
nolacopusmc
Banned
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:23 am |
|
IA-Pro wrote: Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.
I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?
I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before…
Even though you plan to OC, that is the kind of information that you would receive in a good CHP class. The answer is not simple. Generally, you can use the same degree of force in defense of others that the person would be authorized in using themselves if able.
The question in these types of situations is not what CAN you do, but what SHOULD you do.
This is a core subject in my CHP class. Just because you can do something, does not always mean it is the best course of action for a multitude of reasons.
|
nolacopusmc
Banned
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:23 am |
|
sorry. Dup
Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:24 am by nolacopusmc
|
XD-GEM
Activist Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 06:14 pm |
|
http://www.lsp.org/pdf/chRuleBook08.pdf
The link above is to the Louisiana State Police handbook that they publish with regard to concealed carry. However, the laws about justifyable use of force are listed and quoted there for anyone to read.
Decideing whether or not you should get involved in something, even when it could be justifyably legal, is tricky ; and you'll have to decide on your own when the situation arises. It is difficult even for LEO with many years on the job. There's a former LEO who is now an attorney (I cannot remember his name); while he was off duty, he came upon a scene of a robbery in progress. He misread what was happenng and shot the busness owner instead of the robbers.
Although he was exonerated, he will have to live with that mistake for the rest of his life. I am not certain if there was ever any civil case resolution about this.
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 07:13 pm |
|
mark edward marchiafava wrote: If you feel someone else's life is in grave or serious danger of great bodily harm or death, yes, you CAN raise that as a defense, should some overzealous "law enforcement officer, DA or grand jury attempt to prosecute you.
IANAL, so check this out from as many sources as you wish.
As for not acting, well, there's no law requiring "law enforcement officers" to protect anyone, according to numerous court decisions. I don't see how us lowly non-sovereign citizens can be held to a higher standard, considering how they are so much smarter than us.
No duty to act, also no immunity from civil suit.
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 07:45 pm |
|
True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.
Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
|
nolacopusmc
Banned
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 09:57 pm |
|
CaptainDan wrote: True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.
Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
True. I would be very leary of interceding on behalf of a third party unless it was a loved one because you never know the full story even though the situation may seem obvious. There have been cases of the good Samaritan shooting "the victim" as they were defending themselves against the initial perpetrator.
|
charlie12
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 11:51 pm |
|
| What about the immunity from civil liability law?
|
nolacopusmc
Banned
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:59 am |
|
charlie12 wrote: What about the immunity from civil liability law?
Highly unlikely. Lso, jusy because a judgement may not be awarded, you still have the ahassle of the trial.
|
smoking357
Banned
|
Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 12:58 pm |
|
CaptainDan wrote: True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.
Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
Six years of legal bills will easily exceed $100,000.
How do you define "winning?"
|
CaptainDan
Regular Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:41 am |
|
Unlike a legal charge in a civil siut the one suing has to pay all court costs, not the one being sued, if you lose court costs are added to the judgement. If the judge doesn't find for the plaintiff it costs the defendant nothing. It is expensive to take someone to court but free to be taken to court. unless you lose 
BTW- First hand experience, not a guess.
Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:43 am by CaptainDan
|
nolacopusmc
Banned
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:43 pm |
|
smoking357 wrote: CaptainDan wrote: True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.
Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
Six years of legal bills will easily exceed $100,000.
How do you define "winning?"
I actually agree with crackhead on this one. While you may win in the end, you still go through the ordeal. I would be real leary of interceding in a private capacity for a third party. Too much could go wrong where you are left holding the bag.
|
turbodog
Regular Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:42 am |
|
Was talking about this very topic with my nephew the other day, while eating in a McDonalds.
If a BG came in right then to rob the place, I'd likely let him do it, especially if I was in such a position as to not have a clear line of fire in front or behind BG.
I don't figure to get into a gunfight over some big corporations chump change.
But, if it looked like BG intends to start, or does start, harming folks or to rob me and mine, then it's time to act.
|
Current time is 07:32 pm | |
|
