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KBCraig
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Aug 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Northeast Texas |
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 02:22 am |
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Off topic, but many people here also carry concealed in Louisiana, so this update is a public service.
There's no date nor explanation, just this entry on the Louisiana State Police website:
http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html
News - Effective immediately, Louisiana no longer honors non-resident permits issued by the State of Florida.
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turbodog
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 12:22 pm |
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Yeah, I wonder what the issue is? Both states apparently still have reciprocity agreements on resident permits though.
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Double_J
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 01:03 pm |
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Guess I will have to OC only for the next couple of months until I get a Louisiana permit as my Florida permit is no good. I am glad that I just made my six months as a resident, now to take the class and do the paperwork.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 07:17 pm |
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There is no legal basis for LSP to make this pronouncement.
In general, another state's concealed handgun permit is valid in Louisiana without regard to the state of residence of the permitholder. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(1) provides, in part, that "[a] current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by another state shall be deemed to be valid within this state if a current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by Louisiana is valid in those states."
However, there is one exception. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(2) provides that "[a] nonresident concealed handgun permit issued by another state is invalid in the state of Louisiana if issued to an individual who as a resident of this state has been denied a handgun permit or has been issued a handgun permit which is under revocation or suspension." Only if you (1) are a resident of Louisiana and (2) have been denied a LA CHP or have an LA CHP that is under suspension or revocation, may you not carry a concealed handgun in Louisiana with a nonresident permit from a reciprocal state. Thus, it is clear that the Louisiana Legislature has clearly spoken on the validity of nonresident permits issued by not only Florida, but also other states such as New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Utah, among others, that issue nonresident permits.
Last edited on Sun Oct 18th, 2009 07:18 pm by WVCDL
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PT111
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 11:49 pm |
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In general, another state's concealed handgun permit is valid in Louisiana without regard to the state of residence of the permitholder. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(1) provides, in part, that "[a] current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by another state shall be deemed to be valid within this state if a current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by Louisiana is valid in those states."
Does LA issue non-resident permits? If so they are not valid in FL and this may be the basis for it. If a LA non-res permit is not valid in FL then a FL non-res permit would not be valid in LA. A nit-picking ruling but may be their reasoning behind it.
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Louisiana Carry
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 19th, 2009 12:49 am |
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PT111 wrote: In general, another state's concealed handgun permit is valid in Louisiana without regard to the state of residence of the permitholder. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(1) provides, in part, that "[a] current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by another state shall be deemed to be valid within this state if a current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by Louisiana is valid in those states."
Does LA issue non-resident permits? If so they are not valid in FL and this may be the basis for it. If a LA non-res permit is not valid in FL then a FL non-res permit would not be valid in LA. A nit-picking ruling but may be their reasoning behind it.
No, we do not issue non-res.
Their reasoning, ostensibly, is Florida's lax training requirements. Some have said they are just after the money, because they still recognize FL resident permits (which theoretically they should not if they are concerned about the training issue). OTOH, the silent reasoning is that they don't want LA residents getting around the training requirements. All of which is a bit superflous, though, since most people go to the same training here to get their non-res from FL that they would to get a LA CHP.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Oct 19th, 2009 02:17 am |
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Louisiana Carry wrote: PT111 wrote: In general, another state's concealed handgun permit is valid in Louisiana without regard to the state of residence of the permitholder. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(1) provides, in part, that "[a] current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by another state shall be deemed to be valid within this state if a current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by Louisiana is valid in those states."
Does LA issue non-resident permits? If so they are not valid in FL and this may be the basis for it. If a LA non-res permit is not valid in FL then a FL non-res permit would not be valid in LA. A nit-picking ruling but may be their reasoning behind it.
No, we do not issue non-res.
Their reasoning, ostensibly, is Florida's lax training requirements. Some have said they are just after the money, because they still recognize FL resident permits (which theoretically they should not if they are concerned about the training issue). OTOH, the silent reasoning is that they don't want LA residents getting around the training requirements. All of which is a bit superflous, though, since most people go to the same training here to get their non-res from FL that they would to get a LA CHP.
The plain text of the reciprocity law does not allow this.
The Louisiana Legislature repealed the equivalent licensing standards requirement from the reciprocity law in 2004. In 2008, the Legislature did add the prohibition on residents who were denied a LA CHP or have a suspended or revoked LA CHP from using another state's permit. There are states that have resident-permit-only reciprocity laws (CO, FL, MI, NH & SC) and some that generally recognize nonresident permits but expressly prohibit their own residents from using another state's permit as an alternative to obtaining a home state permit (AL, AZ, GA, IN, KS, NE, NV, TN & WV). If the Legislature wanted to adopt either mechanism to require Louisiana residents to go through the LA CHP process and not use another state's permit to bypass it, it clearly had a variety of statutory provisions available for duplication from other states. However, the Legislature chose only to bar those residents who applied and were denied and those residents who were under suspension or revocation, from using another state's permit. A legislature speaks by both its acts and its omissions.
In light of the 2004 and 2008 amendments to the reciprocity law and the varying provisions in other states pertaining to nonresident permits, there is no conclusions other than a plain text application of the current statute, as written, notwithstanding LSP's contrary pronouncement denying recognition to FL nonresident permits.
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Louisiana Carry
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 19th, 2009 05:33 am |
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WVCDL wrote: Louisiana Carry wrote: PT111 wrote: In general, another state's concealed handgun permit is valid in Louisiana without regard to the state of residence of the permitholder. La. Rev. Stat. § 40:1379.3(T)(1) provides, in part, that "[a] current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by another state shall be deemed to be valid within this state if a current and valid concealed handgun permit issued by Louisiana is valid in those states."
Does LA issue non-resident permits? If so they are not valid in FL and this may be the basis for it. If a LA non-res permit is not valid in FL then a FL non-res permit would not be valid in LA. A nit-picking ruling but may be their reasoning behind it.
No, we do not issue non-res.
Their reasoning, ostensibly, is Florida's lax training requirements. Some have said they are just after the money, because they still recognize FL resident permits (which theoretically they should not if they are concerned about the training issue). OTOH, the silent reasoning is that they don't want LA residents getting around the training requirements. All of which is a bit superflous, though, since most people go to the same training here to get their non-res from FL that they would to get a LA CHP.
The plain text of the reciprocity law does not allow this.
The Louisiana Legislature repealed the equivalent licensing standards requirement from the reciprocity law in 2004. In 2008, the Legislature did add the prohibition on residents who were denied a LA CHP or have a suspended or revoked LA CHP from using another state's permit. There are states that have resident-permit-only reciprocity laws (CO, FL, MI, NH & SC) and some that generally recognize nonresident permits but expressly prohibit their own residents from using another state's permit as an alternative to obtaining a home state permit (AL, AZ, GA, IN, KS, NE, NV, TN & WV). If the Legislature wanted to adopt either mechanism to require Louisiana residents to go through the LA CHP process and not use another state's permit to bypass it, it clearly had a variety of statutory provisions available for duplication from other states. However, the Legislature chose only to bar those residents who applied and were denied and those residents who were under suspension or revocation, from using another state's permit. A legislature speaks by both its acts and its omissions.
In light of the 2004 and 2008 amendments to the reciprocity law and the varying provisions in other states pertaining to nonresident permits, there is no conclusions other than a plain text application of the current statute, as written, notwithstanding LSP's contrary pronouncement denying recognition to FL nonresident permits.
I agree with you. If I had legal resources like VCDL or something, I would be the first to challenge this. I only meant to expound on their reasoning, since a conjecture had been posted.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:10 am |
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| It appears LSP has withdrawn from its web site its earlier pronouncement denying recognition to FL nonresident permits.
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Ed Y
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 12:25 am |
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I'm definitely no expert on this stuff but Florida does not issue a "non-resident" CCL. They do issue a CCL to non-residents of the state but it's not marked as a "non-resident" license.
I realize maybe that's nit-picking at terminology but .................
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 12:42 am |
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WVCDL wrote: It appears LSP has withdrawn from its web site its earlier pronouncement denying recognition to FL nonresident permits.
Yes, I heard they got smacked down pretty hard by some legislators over this.
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oldgoat
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 05:11 am |
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Last edited on Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 05:15 am by oldgoat
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netentity
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:56 pm |
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I'm guessing the reason why they did that was a knee jerk reaction to non-resident Florida licenses is that LA residents were getting them instead of LA CHPs to CCW in LA. Fortunately the State legislature stepped in and took care of that. I do expect LASP to lobby that LA residents be required to get LA CHPs or perish permits.
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Slidell Jim
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:51 pm |
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I know a couple folks here in slidell That have Florida non-res permits. They told me that it is much easier to obtain the FL permit as compared to LA's process.
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netentity
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:41 am |
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Slidell Jim wrote: I know a couple folks here in slidell That have Florida non-res permits. They told me that it is much easier to obtain the FL permit as compared to LA's process.
That doesn't surprise me, however, LA CHPs have better reciprocity and recognition than FL CWFLs. That alone would be motivation for me to get a LA CHP if I was a LA resident.
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mrjam2jab
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:06 am |
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netentity wrote: Slidell Jim wrote: I know a couple folks here in slidell That have Florida non-res permits. They told me that it is much easier to obtain the FL permit as compared to LA's process.
That doesn't surprise me, however, LA CHPs have better reciprocity and recognition than FL CWFLs. That alone would be motivation for me to get a LA CHP if I was a LA resident.
By my count....
LA = 31 FL = 33
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netentity
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:22 am |
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mrjam2jab wrote: netentity wrote: Slidell Jim wrote: I know a couple folks here in slidell That have Florida non-res permits. They told me that it is much easier to obtain the FL permit as compared to LA's process.
That doesn't surprise me, however, LA CHPs have better reciprocity and recognition than FL CWFLs. That alone would be motivation for me to get a LA CHP if I was a LA resident.
By my count....
LA = 31 FL = 33
That isn't by LA SP's count see http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#recip. Also keep in mind that LA has ME, MN, NV and WA which are difficult States to obtain. I'd love to not to have to renew my ME. LA SP hasn't gotten around to auditing NE to see if they honor their CHP since their recognition statute just passed this year; see http://www.nsp.state.ne.us/FindFile.asp?ID2=256 for NE's recognition list.
Why LA doesn't have reciprocity with OH is a mystery to me.
You also lose some States with a non-resident license or permit; CO, FL, MI, NH and SC. You might also lose KS when another AG gets elected. KS has been bouncing around the non-resident license and permit issue since the passing of their shall issue CCW statute depending on who is in office.
Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:26 am by netentity
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Double_J
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 05:22 am |
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I do have a Florida permit, I got it several years ago as a backup/cover for states that MS did not cover. When I moved to Louisiana my MS permit was no longer valid, and I have to wait six months  before I can get my permit here (Why don't they have a clause that the wait is exempted if you already have a permit like what MS does). Thankfully that wait is up and now it is just finding the time for the class and do the paperwork. I want to get the Louisiana permit only for the couple of states that I don't get with Florida, and I will keep the Florida permit as a backup.
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