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worrbaron
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 06:30 pm |
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I was patronizing the Auburn Walmart when I was approached by two managers. They briefly explained to me that because they knew me, (they might have seen me there before?) they were not going to call the Auburn police for me open carrying in their store. They asked me if I had a conceal carry license, and that in the future if I could please carry concealed when I shop there. I questioning them about their reasons, to which one of them said that to carry I needed to conceal. I honestly and affirmitively replied that state of Maine law only requires a permit if you carry concealed and that state law pre-empted local law meaning that one may carry openly/concealed wherever it is legal to do so in the state, free from harrassment from local police. They then explained that Auburn police do in fact arrest people for openly carrying firearms, and have done so at that store. One of the managers even went as far to say that he usually just calls the police on anyone openly carrying and they are arrested and taken from the store. He also suggested that open carrying was grounds for revocation of a concealed carry license. I have never heard from anyone that Auburn police arrest people for openly carrying firearms, or revoke conceal carry permits. I politely offered to both of them that they refresh themselves on the laws in the state of Maine regarding firearms and that I would respect their request in my future visits.
Our discussion was friendly but both of these men were just plain ignorant on the laws of Maine, and seemed to use intimidation tactics because they were worried about my firearm. I will respect their requests, but I did let them know that what I was doing was completely legal in the state of Maine and frankly no one's business. If there are other open carriers out there from this area I would urge you to frequent this store in great number to let them know that many people from different areas and backrounds open carry.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 06:35 pm |
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worrbaron wrote: He also suggested that open carrying was grounds for revocation of a concealed carry license. I have never heard from anyone that Auburn police arrest people for openly carrying firearms, or revoke conceal carry permits. I politely offered to both of them that they refresh themselves on the laws in the state of Maine regarding firearms and that I would respect their request in my future visits.
Why not give the Auburn police a phone call and find out if they do indeed arrest OCers in WalMarts or other public places even though they are legal? They would probably tell you. I don't see why they wouldn't.
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worrbaron
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 06:43 pm |
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| Just called and the person who handles policy regarding carrying of firearms was out.
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dng
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 06:45 pm |
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| Sounds like you handled the situation well, and you are dealing with two misinformed managers. But that being said, Walmart is really starting to piss me off. I am hearing stories about incidents in Walmarts a little too often. Maybe it's time to start shopping else where. God knows there are other places around where I can shop where they don't harass gun owners, but Walmart is just so convenient... Hmm....Convenience vs. 2nd amendment rights, well I guess we all know what wins that one.
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worrbaron
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 06:58 pm |
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Well I just got off the phone with Lewiston which is the twin city to Auburn and watch commander there said that their local laws are in line with state law. When I asked for further clarification regarding the law ( I quoted it for him) he became much more free with his tongue and said that he prefers people carrying concealed, and that carrying openly would attract the wrong type of attention. He then went on to say that he would discourage people from carrying on a constitutional basis as it is "written somewhere else and is vague," and would prefer that people only carry if they are licensed with the state to carry conealed.
The Maine state Constitution reads as follows: Article I, Section 16
Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.
Regulation of firearms by municipalities is illegal:
Regulation restricted. Except as provided in subsection 3, no political subdivision of the State, including, but not limited to, municipalities, counties, townships and village corporations, may adopt any order, ordinance, rule or regulation concerning the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration, taxation or any other matter pertaining to firearms, components, ammunition or supplies. [1989, c. 359 (new).]
Any advice?
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dng
State Researcher
| Joined: | Fri May 25th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 07:20 pm |
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| I would contact Walmart and ask them to clarify their position on firearms. If they are anti-gun and do not want you carrying, then find somewhere else to spend your money. I do not believe the police have any basis to arrest you. It is your constitutional right to carry and you should not stop because of the opinions of a police officer.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 07:28 pm |
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worrbaron wrote: Well I just got off the phone with Lewiston which is the twin city to Auburn and watch commander there said that their local laws are in line with state law. When I asked for further clarification regarding the law ( I quoted it for him) he became much more free with his tongue and said that he prefers people carrying concealed, and that carrying openly would attract the wrong type of attention. He then went on to say that he would discourage people from carrying on a constitutional basis as it is "written somewhere else and is vague," and would prefer that people only carry if they are licensed with the state to carry conealed.
....
Any advice?
Well, this has, obviously, come up before.
As I recall there were two major suggestions. Mike said folks who had trouble in Wal-Marts had to basically tussle it out, OCing until each local Wal-Mart manager got hip to the corporate policy.
Hawkflyer's suggestion was that regardless of state law on OC that each individual store manager had the right to forbid OC (or CC) in his or her store. Therefore, if one Wal-Mart kicked you out, you should just go to a different Wal-Mart, according to Hawk.
Actually, now I remember that someone had a different idea. That was to have a representative of the OC community contact the Joe McQueen guy in Bentonville and find out if Wal-Mart's corporate policy really is (or is not) to allow gun carry in its stores if it is legal in the state the store is in (OC and/or CC). If the corporate policy is indeed to allow OC in its stores (if state legal) as McQueen's assistant once specifically said, then it would be a matter of communicating the corporate policy to each manager who violated it.
I dunno. It's been a persisting problem. 
And there seems to be reluctance in communicating with corporate directly on the issue.
Boycotting is not a good solution. Everybody says they will boycott W-M. But nobody really does. Someone may get ticked at them for one reason or another and decide never to set foot in one again. But they just send the wife or kids...
I think that communication is the only pathway to a solution to the Wal-Mart situation. And, ironically, it might very well be a solution that would be favorable to OCers in Virginia and elsewhere...
BTW, I forgot to mention in my first post above that you handled the confrontation very well. You were dealing with uninformed gents who were ideologically and logically challenged. That's very difficult to do without losing one's cool and you maintained yours even though they had utterly closed minds.
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worrbaron
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 08:14 pm |
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| My main concern is the infringment on the rights we have, and people forgetting that we have these rights.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 08:37 pm |
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worrbaron wrote: My main concern is the infringment on the rights we have, and people forgetting that we have these rights.
I hear you, worrbaron.
Frankly, I think it would be a coup for the OC community to get an official Wal-Mart policy that is favorable to it. Wal-Mart is sensitive to the political winds when it wants to be--when it sees a payoff.
I read an article a couple of days ago about the latest approach of some states (ME, CA, etc.) which is to attempt to enact restrictive legislation concerning the internal operations of the big box stores (environmental impact, pay scales, hours, benefits, etc.). Well, la-dee-da, ole Wal-Mart says they are opposed to the gubmint interfering in their affairs, right? I think it would be consistent with W-M's philosophy to not be interfering in the affairs of the legal OC community.
Wal-Mart is going to need all the political support it can get to fight off the (over) regulators. Conservatives (a lot of whom are gun rights advocates) are natural enemies of over-regulators. Seems like a bunch of opposers of gubmint over-regulators could find some common ground to team up on: oppose feelgood regulatory efforts--bothe for the firm and for its customers.
Wal-Mart is primarily concerned with having as few hassles for their customers as possible. Some of their managers erroneously believe that a legal OCer will cause problems for some of their customers. That's a reasonable first assumption in some cases. But it can be rebutted.
Communication is the key.
People are afraid of talking to Joe McQueen for some reason. Or his boss. Interesting.
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steveforopen
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 08:46 pm |
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| I hope you didn't spend your hard-earned money here.
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worrbaron
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Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 09:45 pm |
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| What is Joe's number?
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ProguninTN
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 08:19 pm |
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Good luck worrbarron. I have not been to Auburn, so I do not know its attitude toward guns. Perhaps, you can change it for the better.
ProguninTN
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Tiny85
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| Joined: | Sat Apr 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | Maine USA |
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 09:05 pm |
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I was browsing the site and noticed this discussion and figured i could add some light. the current local law for Lewiston auburn restricts not the open carry but the discharge of firearms, extending to include a gun in a condition ready to be discharged. this would lead me to believe you are free to OC so long as the gun is not loaded. this is how they get around the state constitution as they aren't limiting your right to bare arms. So the managers werent in any way wrong in what they were doing. as far as the managers are concerned it would be the same as walking threw the store smoking a joint. they were simply warning you of the impending hassle you would get from cops when you are caught. but as you have your CCW you are legaly allowed to carry concealed but not OC in Lewiston/Auburn. unless from what i can see if you would like to OC remove all the ammo and then take out the firing pin and you should be good.
Section 50-107:
"(h) Prima facie evidence of violation. It shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this section if a person carries a firearm on his person, the discharge of which is prohibited in the zone in which the person is located, unless that firearm is unloaded and rendered incapable of firing without further assembly or is unloaded and enclosed in a case. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit the authority to carry a concealed firearm by a person licensed to do so. "
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 5th, 2009 03:38 am |
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Tiny85 wrote: I was browsing the site and noticed this discussion and figured i could add some light. the current local law for Lewiston auburn restricts not the open carry but the discharge of firearms, extending to include a gun in a condition ready to be discharged. this would lead me to believe you are free to OC so long as the gun is not loaded. this is how they get around the state constitution as they aren't limiting your right to bare arms. So the managers werent in any way wrong in what they were doing. as far as the managers are concerned it would be the same as walking threw the store smoking a joint. they were simply warning you of the impending hassle you would get from cops when you are caught. but as you have your CCW you are legaly allowed to carry concealed but not OC in Lewiston/Auburn. unless from what i can see if you would like to OC remove all the ammo and then take out the firing pin and you should be good.
Section 50-107:
"(h) Prima facie evidence of violation. It shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this section if a person carries a firearm on his person, the discharge of which is prohibited in the zone in which the person is located, unless that firearm is unloaded and rendered incapable of firing without further assembly or is unloaded and enclosed in a case. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit the authority to carry a concealed firearm by a person licensed to do so. "
Welcome to OCDO.
Maine has complete state preemption.
OC is completely legal (in vehicle req. permit) see and read thread:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum27/3558.html and/or full Maine forum and interactive map on OCDO home page.
Yata hey
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hightecrebel
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Posted: Sun Apr 5th, 2009 06:05 pm |
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Welcome Tiny.
IANAL, but as Grapeshot says, there is complete state preemption on all firearms laws. The phrasing of the ordinance would be struuck down just like the Freeport ordinance restricting issue of CC to demonstratable need (Schwanda v. Bonney)
Last edited on Sun Apr 5th, 2009 06:06 pm by hightecrebel
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Tiny85
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Posted: Mon Apr 6th, 2009 07:21 pm |
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All good information. Understand I more then likely would never be convicted of anything, however like Portland I would most likely be detained for questioning and would get my gun back at some point. They would probly hold it for like 30 days. The part I dislike is that while following state law local police will still treat me like a criminal.
Personaly I currently only have 1 SD gun so if i ended up going head to head with local laws, that violate state constitution, I cant realy afford to be with out my gun while they teach me a lesson for owning a gun.
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WorldWideEasy
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 10:41 am |
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Lol, its funny the position the majority of the public takes on OC - its people who have never been around guns that get filled with fear when one is seen OC -
-- Out of Sight & Out of Mind --
And why? They think your gonna kill someone or that you have intentions to harm - where your really just trying to use all beneficiary precautions to defend yourself that our laws permit.
I don't get how people feel opposed to it, if some sick puppy wants to bring a gun into a dwelling and shoot up the place their going to OC or Concealed regardless of what the laws says - or what people think.. one sec your reading better homes n living by the magazine rack and bam Kamikazi kid pulls out his 9 and lets em loose!
To be frank, I'd rather people carried OC, that way if it does infact makes me uneasy I'll just avoid them if possible. If I were to see Dick Cheney in the frozen food section toting around his 50cal revolver. Then maybe I'd wait to pickup my hot pockets and go grab some TP first (cause I'd probably be @#$%ting myself hahhaa) - I mean, people will argue they don't wanna feel that way - but its just prejudice, people do it all the time walking down the street - they see a group of black people that look like thugs they'll gladly avoid walking through them and take the opposite sidewalk or alternative route.
Its just too funny - people these days.. I wish I was born while the west was still wild.
Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2009 10:45 am by WorldWideEasy
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 12:39 pm |
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WorldWideEasy wrote: Lol, its funny the position the majority of the public takes on OC - its people who have never been around guns that get filled with fear when one is seen OC -
-- Out of Sight & Out of Mind --
And why? They think your gonna kill someone or that you have intentions to harm - where your really just trying to use all beneficiary precautions to defend yourself that our laws permit.
I don't get how people feel opposed to it, if some sick puppy wants to bring a gun into a dwelling and shoot up the place their going to OC or Concealed regardless of what the laws says - or what people think.. one sec your reading better homes n living by the magazine rack and bam Kamikazi kid pulls out his 9 and lets em loose!
To be frank, I'd rather people carried OC, that way if it does infact makes me uneasy I'll just avoid them if possible. If I were to see Dick Cheney in the frozen food section toting around his 50cal revolver. Then maybe I'd wait to pickup my hot pockets and go grab some TP first (cause I'd probably be @#$%ting myself hahhaa) - I mean, people will argue they don't wanna feel that way - but its just prejudice, people do it all the time walking down the street - they see a group of black people that look like thugs they'll gladly avoid walking through them and take the opposite sidewalk or alternative route.
Its just too funny - people these days.. I wish I was born while the west was still wild.
Welcome to OCDO - good people and thinking here.
People are the product of their education or lack of it and react according to their conditioning. Sheeple are more frequently made rather than born that way. Simply look at what/howour schools teach as a prime example.
The land my have been wild but the people by and large were peaceful - not at all like the hollywood stereotype ruffians.
Yata hey
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OC-Aviator
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 24th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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HI,
I OC all the time in Wal-Mart here in Lacey/olympia Wa. and Wal-mart's Policy on firearms is to follow local or state laws where ever the store is located. No manger can eject you for follwing state law, He/She does not own the store or property and it would be a violation of corprate policy.
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 24th, 2009 07:47 pm |
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OC-Aviator wrote: HI,
I OC all the time in Wal-Mart here in Lacey/olympia Wa. and Wal-mart's Policy on firearms is to follow local or state laws where ever the store is located. No manger can eject you for follwing state law, He/She does not own the store or property and it would be a violation of corprate policy.
Yes, the mg.r can tell you to leave for any reason; and yes, you can be arrested for trespass if you do not comply.
The mgr. could be fired (likely won't be) for not following policy. It may be policy (subject to change) but it is not law.
If told to leave, I will do so immediately and pursue it with higher mgt. authority in polite terms later. This is why so many of us carry digital recorders. Get names and other info straight. Don't argue and refuse - you will lose.
Yata hey
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