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Crash7795
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:16 am |
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So here is the law in Maryland...(edited for brevity)
ยง 4-203. Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun
Prohibited
(a)(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;
(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;
(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or
(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.
(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.
Exceptions
(b) This section does not prohibit:
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(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;
So I understand all that, and this is the only exception that would apply to me. My question is, does anyone have any experience with open carry on their property, out-of-doors, in a non-rural environment? I live in Glen Burnie (for now, until I get to go back to sweet Virginny), and I am thinking about seeing what kind of reaction I get if I go out and mow the lawn with my .45 on my hip. It's a close-quarters neighborhood, and I figure I have about 10 minutes until the first 911 MWAG call goes out. Anyone know what kind of response I can expect?
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Don Barnett
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 12:59 pm |
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Aren't you kind of "asking" for a big hassle?
I just looked on the Maryland posts for the heck of it and saw yours. My family is from Maryland and I live in Virginia, One of my brothers lives in Glen Burnie. Anyway, when they visit me in VA, they are envious of our freedoms here and often compare our crime rates with yours. If I ever had to move, I would pick a state which the Brady Campaign gave an F rating to.
Keep fighting.
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nakedshoplifter
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 01:44 pm |
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Don Barnett wrote: Aren't you kind of "asking" for a big hassle?
+1
Crash, when we* go out an OC in Northern VA, we do it for protection, activism, and awareness. At no time do any of us desire to be dealing with the police for going about our daily affairs whilst armed. You don't seem to share that philosophy, in fact I gathered from your post you are seeking a confrontation with the PD. The way I read the law, you may CC on your property, and that's what I'd advise (assuming you want to carry while mowing the grass for protection). OC'ing on your property in MD serves no activism purpose, beyond proving that you may OC on your property. It does not raise awareness either, unless you think making your neighbors aware you have guns in your house for the taking is a good thing. Is it legal? Yes. Is it smart? That's for you to decide after weighing the risks, both to yourself and the overall gun rights movement in MD. Public perception is everything in this game.
Edited to add: I do not hang around my neighborhood while OC'ing. I don't mow my grass, pull weeds or wash my car while OC'ing. If I am outside I am walking to or from my car with my OC'd pistol. Why do I do this? Because I don't want my neighbors to assume I have a large store of firearms and ammunition in my house (which is true). I trust all my neighbors, but I don't trust their children or who they might talk to. I'd rather let them all assume I work in law enforcement, and I've never seen a cop OC while out doing yardwork.
* "We" refers to the open carriers in VA who regularly go about our daily affairs while armed, dress accordingly, are cognizant of the laws and present a good public image.
Last edited on Wed Apr 15th, 2009 01:50 pm by nakedshoplifter
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junglebob
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:13 pm |
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Crash7795, I don't know what will happen if you open carry on your own property. I live in Southern Illinois where rural open carry is legal, with a Firearm Owners ID Card (FOID) outside a vehicle. Since I am in a rural area I will do it when walking my dog. I can also legally open or conceal carry on my own property. I however have gun owners on both sides of me, we all hear gun shots when the neighbors are using their "private range" no one has ever called the sheriff because of that so I am sure that the open carrying of a firearm wouldn't cause alarm. I met one neighbor, who probably isn't a gun owner while walking the dog one day while open carrying.
Your situation sounds much different. You might want to go over to the Wisconsin forum here and read about a guy in the Milwaukee area who was arrested while open carrying on his own property. Open carry is legal in urban and rural areas of Wisconsin, and not just on your property. However, it is rarely practiced. I lived there 30 years and can't remember seeing it. It might be done in the far north of Wisconsin, never lived north of the center- Wood County.
Unfortunately sometimes you can be doing something legal and still be arrested and have the hastle of going to court, and having attorney expenses. An example is a guy in DuPage County Illinois, arrested because he had a cased unloaded handgun in a backpack. In Illinois you can transport an unloaded handgun in a case, with ammunition or loaded magazine in the same case. (If your are a resident with FOID card) He was doing so. Got arrested. Judge later dropped the charges. The silver lining in his cloud was that he got a $20,000 settlement from the County. I think he was going to sue for $1 million, settled out of court.
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Crash7795
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 04:00 pm |
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Sorry, I guess I should have clarified a bit. In the last couple weeks, I've had a truck window broken with a pellet gun, beer bottles thrown into the yard, and obvious trespassing evidence (grass torn up, etc). I suspect it's kids being kids, which is much less of an issue than it could be. The neighborhood isn't a bad one, per se, so I'm not overly concerned in that aspect. However, having talked to a neighbor or two recently, it turns out there is a group of late teens/early twenties types who have started roaming the neighborhood just loitering and hanging out. Again, nothing that can be pinned down as "bad behavior." I don't see a lot of it in person, because my wife and I leave the house early and get home late, and I spend a lot of weekends in VA Beach. But, this weekend I will be home, and I have a bunch of yardwork to do, and I would prefer to have the option of carrying on my property. So that's why I ask if anyone has had any experience with this in MD, because I am certainly aware of the difference in attitude between MD and VA (and one of the main reasons I am moving to VA soon).
Thanks for the feedback, and I'm going to keep researching and reading as much as I can find on the subject.
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Don Barnett
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 09:15 pm |
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Even though I live in Virginia, which is a very gun-owner friendly state, I would NOT use threat of deadly force unless there was a definite danger to myself or family member...that is the law and coincides with the theological dogma of my Church (Roman Catholic). Broken windows and other vandalism does NOT fit that criteria and you would be charged with Brandishing a Weapon.
I would be VERY careful if that is why you intend to open carry on your own propery; hope you are not a "hothead".
On the other hand, I know of a gas station owner who hung a pump action, 12 gauge shotgun over his cash register after a robbery (corner of Rt 32 and Raintree) in Sykesville). He was never robbed again, until he decided to take it down, then he was robbed. But, robbery is a crime of violence.
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Novus Collectus
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Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 04:39 am |
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Don Barnett wrote: Even though I live in Virginia, which is a very gun-owner friendly state, I would NOT use threat of deadly force unless there was a definite danger to myself or family member...that is the law and coincides with the theological dogma of my Church (Roman Catholic). Broken windows and other vandalism does NOT fit that criteria and you would be charged with Brandishing a Weapon.
I would be VERY careful if that is why you intend to open carry on your own propery; hope you are not a "hothead".
On the other hand, I know of a gas station owner who hung a pump action, 12 gauge shotgun over his cash register after a robbery (corner of Rt 32 and Raintree) in Sykesville). He was never robbed again, until he decided to take it down, then he was robbed. But, robbery is a crime of violence.
In MD there is no statutory definition of "brandishing" and brandishing has different legal meanings from state to state.
Basically you are not breaking the law openly wearing/carrying by what is considered "brandishing" in other states unless you point the gun at someone and then it may become assault and not brandishing in the definitive sense because the word is not used in code from what I understand.
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press1280
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:05 pm |
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| You could get the old "disorderly conduct" BS that some police have used to crack down on OC since they can't get you on weapons charges.
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Novus Collectus
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:44 pm |
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press1280 wrote: You could get the old "disorderly conduct" BS that some police have used to crack down on OC since they can't get you on weapons charges. THe statute specifically states you can carry on your own property a loaded firearm open or concealed so if a cop arrested you for it one of two things can happen to him in MD. One, you can resist an unlawful, unwarrentless arrest in MD and use any force necessary to prevent it, so if you break the cop's arm because he was trying to arrest you unlawfully without a warrant, there is nothing he can do about it legally.
Second, he can be sued because he has no immunity for making an unlawful arrest when he should have known the law.
They would have to make something up to claim you were acting disorderly if you were just wearing it according to how the statute says you can wear it as I see it.
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Don Barnett
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:46 pm |
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| That may work in Maryland and other gun-unfriendly states and a few "liberal" counties have tried that in Virginia and really got "stung" with hefty lawsuits. In Virginia, they pretty much leave you alone.
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mark edward marchiafava
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Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 10:13 pm |
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"........................we do it for protection, activism and awareness."
Gee, if he's OC'ing in his yard, he's definitely providing for his own protection, at the same time he's being active in promoting and making any neighbor/passerby aware of OC.
"OC'ing on your property in MD serves no activism purpose." Certainly, if he's visible to neighbors/passersby, how can you say he's NOT serving activism?
Does not raise awareness? How can you say that with a straight face?
You don't mow grass, pull weeds or wash your car, but picking up someone ELSE's litter while OC'ing is a GOOD idea? Why's that?
I'm certainly glad Rosa Parks didn't consult anyone on THIS board prior to riding the bus that day.
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RaginCajun
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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 11:11 pm |
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Don Barnett wrote: That may work in Maryland and other gun-unfriendly states and a few "liberal" counties have tried that in Virginia and really got "stung" with hefty lawsuits. In Virginia, they pretty much leave you alone.
Novus.. is a pure genius! I have told him this and love reading any post he has on any board!
I open carry on my property and I do not live in a rual area.. I am female and when I am alone. I am feel safe with my .380!! My other guns are too heavy to for me to carry openly or conceal.
I have had persons walk on my property and I have signs stating we have dogs.. Heck I have a pit bull and it does not deter.. I refuse to be a victim!
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RaginCajun
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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 11:33 pm |
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RaginCajun wrote: Don Barnett wrote: That may work in Maryland and other gun-unfriendly states and a few "liberal" counties have tried that in Virginia and really got "stung" with hefty lawsuits. In Virginia, they pretty much leave you alone.
Novus.. is a pure genius! I have told him this and love reading any post he has on any board!
I open carry on my property and I do not live in a rual area.. I am female and when I am alone. I am feel safe with my .380!! My other guns are too heavy to for me to carry openly or conceal.
I have had persons walk on my property and I have signs stating we have dogs.. Heck I have a pit bull and it does not deter.. I refuse to be a victim!
Great post Edwards.. I am from Baton Rouge, LA. born and raised.. I totally agree. Activism is rasing awareness!
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XD40coyote
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Posted: Sun May 24th, 2009 05:07 am |
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I can't help you on what the cops might do, or if they are even called, if you do yard work in Glen Burnie while OCing on your property. Probably would turn into a Danbus sort of deal, or like the guy in WI. Unlawful detainment and/or arrest, then you having the option of suing since you were not breaking any laws.
Now I am in a rural area and can OC on 10 acres or OC while tending a trapline during the respective seasons on other private properties I have written permission to be on for this purpose. So far it hasn't been much noticed. A few taxidermy customers have seen it, and gun rights discussions follow. 1 game cop saw me here at my place OCing and we had a convo about carry laws, PA carry, and LEOSA. He seemed totally cool about me carrying here, though later on he decided to pull a BS thing on me concerning my trapping this one place. Not sure if he decided women OCing was something that gave him Little Dick Syndrome, so he had to do some dickless thing to me as a result, or if the trapline incident was related to something else ( some anti neighbor over that way perhaps lying about me or something maybe). In fact he stopped by the one day in regards to seeing my written permission to trap the very same property- some kind of crap was going on there this last season with an anti complaining or I was caught in the middle of some feud between the family that deer hunts the property.
Yesterday a neighbor found out about my carry habits during a discussion along the property edges regarding another neighbor's house that seems abandoned, and we were discussing what might be going on with that ( suspicion is foreclosure). Talk of metal stealing burglars and the like came up in regards to abandoned houses, and my carry got noticed, and the lady got all freaky that I was wearing a gun, but after she asked the big "why???", and after I explained it to her using examples of strange people wandering in yards in the area, some burglaries that have happened, and those rare instances of crazies doing as they please down long driveways, and rabid or other animal attacks, I think she "got it". I also mentioned carrying in PA and the crazyness that was going on in april with all the shootings in places such as rural Alabama, a nursing home,etc, which she "got" even better. My mother was also there and she blurted out that I sometimes have some really weird customers LOL. The neighbor then asked what I was wearing and if I was a good shot LOL. She thought my XD was a Glock LMAO. I told her it was a Springfield XD in .40, and yes I am a good shot. I asked " haven't you heard me target shooting?". She said she had heard shooting back that way but it seems she didn't notice it as anything unusual, but had a friend over one time who heard it one day who asked if it was legal to do that, and the lady said it was in the country, so she guessed so LOL. ( I am not the only person in the area who target shoots either!). Lots of other neighbor stories came up in the convo too, it was a nice social occassion. Usually we all keep to ourselves till something big or odd comes up.
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RaginCajun
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Posted: Sun May 24th, 2009 05:20 am |
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Love the name and thinking of getting an XD myself.. But I love my Glocks and have several!
My area is not too bad, but recently we had two breakins.. both directly behind our house. They were successful with one house.. our neigbhor asked if we heard anything.. which we did not..two days later they hit the house next door to them! But the lady was home and they were still trying to get into her house.
I love my pit bull but who is to say he will deter a criminal.. At least my firearms will stop them until the police arrive. Scary times!
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XD40coyote
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Posted: Sun May 24th, 2009 05:35 am |
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RaginCajun wrote: Love the name and thinking of getting an XD myself.. But I love my Glocks and have several!
My area is not too bad, but recently we had two breakins.. both directly behind our house. They were successful with one house.. our neigbhor asked if we heard anything.. which we did not..two days later they hit the house next door to them! But the lady was home and they were still trying to get into her house.
I love my pit bull but who is to say he will deter a criminal.. At least my firearms will stop them until the police arrive. Scary times!
Have you been to the women and guns forum for Women and Guns magazine?
It seems alot of us gals there have a thing for XD9 subcompacts for carry. I've been carrying my 4" .40 instead though when I am home and when I go to PA. Not sure why exactly, as I was loving the 9mm last year. Well gotta switch it up I guess to keep from being bored LOL? I'd like to buy an XDm .40 in bitone, but at MD prices ( like 750.00 which includes the stupid interbore lock thing) and with the crappy 7 to whatever day wait ( I had to wait 14 days when I got the XD9 due to someone f-ing up the fax the first time and they didn't realize it till day 7, so it had to be resubmitted)... The wait about made me pull all my hair out! And all the chocolate I ate!
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Sonora Rebel
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Posted: Mon May 25th, 2009 04:26 am |
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Expect a celebrity visit from AA County mounties and the State Police...
'Breaking the cops arm'... uh, huh... good luck with that. (Especially if you're armed)... 'Will prob'ly get you ventilated multiple times immediately if not sooner.
Novus talks a good game... but that's the extent of it.
Last edited on Mon May 25th, 2009 04:46 am by Sonora Rebel
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RaginCajun
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Posted: Mon May 25th, 2009 03:59 pm |
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XD40coyote wrote: RaginCajun wrote: Love the name and thinking of getting an XD myself.. But I love my Glocks and have several!
My area is not too bad, but recently we had two breakins.. both directly behind our house. They were successful with one house.. our neigbhor asked if we heard anything.. which we did not..two days later they hit the house next door to them! But the lady was home and they were still trying to get into her house.
I love my pit bull but who is to say he will deter a criminal.. At least my firearms will stop them until the police arrive. Scary times!
Have you been to the women and guns forum for Women and Guns magazine?
It seems alot of us gals there have a thing for XD9 subcompacts for carry. I've been carrying my 4" .40 instead though when I am home and when I go to PA. Not sure why exactly, as I was loving the 9mm last year. Well gotta switch it up I guess to keep from being bored LOL? I'd like to buy an XDm .40 in bitone, but at MD prices ( like 750.00 which includes the stupid interbore lock thing) and with the crappy 7 to whatever day wait ( I had to wait 14 days when I got the XD9 due to someone f-ing up the fax the first time and they didn't realize it till day 7, so it had to be resubmitted)... The wait about made me pull all my hair out! And all the chocolate I ate!
Yes I have been lurking on the board and doing some posts. I do see a lot of females with the XD.
Are you on MD Shooters? I post on their and the Second Amendment Sister board mostly.
I hear you about the prices too! It's crazy the cost of a good gun! I hear that the Gun Connection hear in MD provides a great price and they take care of our transfers. I will have to check out the XD..I saw a great ad in the recent NRA magazine.
Nice to meet another female shooter 
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