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jaredbelch
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 01:26 am |
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I think you handled it very well.
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harley2003rkc
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | Burton, MI. |
| Posts: | 73 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 03:40 am |
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If we're going to plan a Corunna OC walk, may I suggest we pair up in groups of two and go our seperate ways. This would ensure that the chief is forced to deal with the possibility of multiple calls. If nothing else it would force his officers to make decisions because they certainly wouldn't be able to send in the cavalry on all of us. I'm sure we can send out more groups of two then he has officers. And I'm sure he would not want individual officers confronting us in two's. 
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mastiff69
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 12:08 am |
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I like your idea of two by two . Must be that barney fife made chief .
I only wish that before they roll on a GUN call that they know the law or just stay at home, and learn the law, maybe a refresher course!!!!!!
I understand the chief doesn't care for Talons in our guns (hum) guess thats what will be in my mags only .
Looks like they have 8 total full/parts time officers according to there web site
Last edited on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 01:39 am by mastiff69
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Razoreye
Opt-Out Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 18 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 12:18 am |
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WARCHILD wrote: sccrref wrote: WARCHILD wrote: Michigander wrote: I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. 
By the way, if it were me, I would complain to the state police about being disarmed. They had no legal right to disarm you, because they had no probable cause to believe that you commited a crime. I'd call that unlawful search and seizure. Given that the MSP actually sent out a news letter detailing the legality of open carry, I would have hoped and expected that they would have diffused the situation.
I posted an edit correction in the thread. the cheif took my gun. I think you should have filed theft charges against the chief. You had 2 MSP officers as witnesses to the fact that he took your gun without your permission and no legal right to do so. That would have really chapped the chief's ass. 
Yes, I would love to file charges, but living in the real world, it would gain nothing more than possible harassment by the cournna dept. as a whole. I personally don't think the trooper's would cross the "Blue Line" to back me up. Besides, I think I made more of an impact on him the way it went down and I am satisfied with the outcome.
While we're on the subject, my sugestion of a group OC in corunna may be viewed as a long walk looking for trouble, not to inform and educate as we mean. I do feel we need to inform the corunna police dept. as a whole that we are going to carry and they might as well expect and prepare their dispatchers for just such an occasion. Maybe we should wait a while and let the CHIEF's (I copied it) head return to normal color first.
I think that's the best idea.
LoL, copied it.
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 12:37 pm |
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mastiff69 wrote: I like your idea of two by two. Must be that barney fife made chief.
I only wish that before they roll on a GUN call that they know the law or just stay at home, and learn the law, maybe a refresher course!!!!!!
I understand the chief doesn't care for Talons in our guns (hum) guess thats what will be in my mags only.
Looks like they have 8 total full/parts time officers according to there web site
I meant to mention this before, (one of those old timer moments), The primary reason I handled this the way I did, i.e.-- no resistance, freely surrendering my gun, offering the green card, had an ulterior motive. I wanted to make this as much a pleasant experience for the officers as I could. After all, it is about informing and awareness. Excluding the chief, his opinion and actions won't change, I hope the next time the trooper has an encounter like this he will remember the last one (me) as being just a look and verify. No aggression, attitude, or violations. This will hopefuly change his approach to "Man with a gun" call. Suppose I had been an a$$, challenged his every move and question? His next encounter would remember that and automaticaly be in a defensive, this could be trouble mode. So for those who feel I surrendered my rights, yes I did, but look what was accomplished, more was done to strengthen my rights with cooperation, confidence, and respect. This trooper now knows I will carry my gun, not looking for trouble, but because I have the right to in order to defend myself. After all, isn't this the message we all intend to send?
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 02:52 pm |
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Yep, you did good Warchild.
The older, wiser guys know how to set good examples. 
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dougwg
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 03:05 pm |
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I am of the same opinion WARCHILD.
I believe First encounters should be handled like this. (for us here in Michigan) Because we DO want to educate, inform and spread the word. The more that carry the better.
Now, later, in a few years or so, when many more people know about OC is the time to really stand up and tell the offending LEO where to stick his unlawful requests.
That being said, if I were you and was stopped by that Chief again. I would not be so nice and accommodating as you were the first time.
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bobcat
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Great Lakes, USA |
| Posts: | 142 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 05:43 pm |
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Nice job Warchild. I learned a couple of things from your encounter, like keeping my arms folded to avoid any misinterpretation. 'Killing' them with kindness certainly works.
I guess it takes us old timers to stay calm and keep the big picture in view on reintroducing and reinforcing our right to protect ourselves.
Thanks again.
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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Warchild,
You could fie a complaint with the department about the Chief of Police's aggressive and abusive behavior. That would leave a paper trail and give you a much stronger hand in any future encounter.
Think about it. If the Chief of Police is that out of control with a fully cooperative older person, how will he react to younger citizens that choose to exercise their rights. I am not just talking about open carry when I say rights.
Just something to think about. Bad apples like this chief should be retrained or removed from positions of authority. That will never happen if nobody complains.
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 10:24 pm |
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dougwg wrote: I am of the same opinion WARCHILD.
I believe First encounters should be handled like this. (for us here in Michigan) Because we DO want to educate, inform and spread the word. The more that carry the better.
Now, later, in a few years or so, when many more people know about OC is the time to really stand up and tell the offending LEO where to stick his unlawful requests.
That being said, if I were you and was stopped by that Chief again. I would not be so nice and accommodating as you were the first time.
In a few years!? I can truthfuly say if I met that chief tmw, I would MAKE IT A POINT to resist him with every leagal means open to me, including requesting the local state police post on corunna ave. send a supervisor to the scene immediately. Keep my mouth shut and ask for an attorney immediately!
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 11:58 pm |
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Jerry,
Russ P is has actuallyl requested that you that you join over on GT in order to join the conversation there.
jhanson25, do you think WARCHILD would come over here, sign up and join the conversation?
I think you would make a good addition to that forum, so I hope you think about it.
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:13 am |
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ghostrider wrote: Jerry,
Russ P is has actuallyl requested that you that you join over on GT in order to join the conversation there.
jhanson25, do you think WARCHILD would come over here, sign up and join the conversation?
I think you would make a good addition to that forum, so I hope you think about it.
It would be a priviledge. I'm glad he is gracious enough to understand my errors, and will gladly join his forum. It will have to be tmw. I have some more research to do tonight, then old man nappy time. Early start tmw, 6a.m. Thanks for passing on the invite.
Jerry
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Chainsawz
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 25th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:21 am |
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| Is this the uneducated individual? Attached Image (viewed 313 times):
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:25 am |
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Chainsawz wrote: Is this the uneducated individual?
YOU BET! He still looks a little red, doesn't he! 
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Chainsawz
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 25th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:34 am |
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Here is his email address: kwilliams@corunna-mi.gov
I will be sending him the following links to assist in his re-education as I frequent this area myself.
Dear Chief Williams:
D ID YOU KNOW?
Note: The following material does not represent new
law. Instead, it is intended to inform officers of
infrequently used laws which might prove useful.
It is not illegal under Michigan law to
openly carry a pistol
As odd as it may appear, it is legal in
Michigan for a person to carry a pistol in
public as long as it is carried with lawful
intent and not concealed.
Of course, there are limits. First, a person
may not carry a pistol into any of the places
listed in MCL 750.234d. Second, a person
may not carry a pistol in a manner that
violates the brandishing a firearm statute
MCL 750.234e ). Finally, a pistol can’t be
carried in public where it violates local
ordinance.
(Taken from: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_April_2007_198953_7.pdf)
Also read:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_May_2007_198956_7.pdf
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Chainsawz
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 25th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:38 am |
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Corunna web site:
http://www.corm.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=29
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 12:41 am |
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| Chainsawz: I thank you for your support and efforts to inform the chief, unfortunately, I sure he is well aware of the laws and doesn't care based on HIS biased opinion. I'm sure his only intent at the intimidation towards me was to support letting me know HE doesn't like and scare me into not doing it again. Thanks for his email, I won't be using it. I don't want to get into a one on one conversation with him unless it is public!
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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Chainsawz wrote: Is this the uneducated individual?
After I thought about it (hurts like hell) I have a question for the forum. I seem to remember a couple of years ago or maybe longer, the law enforcement jurisdiction restrictions were removed. i.e. a Flint city cop can give you a ticket or arrest you outside the city limits. Can anyone verify if this is true? If it is not true, and the jurisdiction restrictions are still in force, it poses another question: Why was the corunna chief at home depot. that's township, not within corunna city limits. Which means he has NO law enforcement rights there at all!!
OPINIONS?
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 11:35 pm |
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WARCHILD wrote: Chainsawz wrote: Is this the uneducated individual?
After I thought about it (hurts like hell) I have a question for the forum. I seem to remember a couple of years ago or maybe longer, the law enforcement jurisdiction restrictions were removed. i.e. a Flint city cop can give you a ticket or arrest you outside the city limits. Can anyone verify if this is true? If it is not true, and the jurisdiction restrictions are still in force, it poses another question: Why was the corunna chief at home depot. that's township, not within corunna city limits. Which means he has NO law enforcement rights there at all!!
OPINIONS?
IAMAL but, I have heard of some jurisdictions having agreements with eachother. IOW, the city chief could have the authority to operate in the township with thier coopreation.
This is a question you might pose at Michigan gun owners forums legal section for a better answer.
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WARCHILD
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 11:38 pm |
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| Right Ghosrider, keep forgeting about the other threads. thanks
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