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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 01:03 pm |
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taxwhat wrote: Big Gay Al wrote: Oh, I don't know. Maybe we should all go there for doughnuts or something. 
There is danger out in Michigan ! from above 2 county LE cars come whipping into the parking lot, and proceed to do a felon stop on me. Danger ! My friend, who has seen the Glock on my right hip and hasn't said anything(he knows about my upbringing), is suddenly fearful of his life from the county mounties. DANGER!! After the whole "hands on your head! hands behind your back! hands on your head!"danger ordeal, I asked to start my tape recorder in my front shirt pocket. cool head I was allowed this, so I then questioned the deputy who appeared to be in more control of his emotions than the other 3 danger why I was being arrested. "A person called in and said a man had a gun tucked into his waistband". This worked out but could have been very bad ! Do we quit or EDUCATE ? Please if possible put recording on mp3 or something to allow all to hear it thanks. +1
Post it. Until you post it, it's just your word against theirs, and anything can happen to you or the recording. Once it's posted, there's not much they can do about it.
Did you cover up, or did they let you leave while OC'ing?
You also might forge some form of communication with the County Sherrif, as to the deputy's actions. Epically about the part about RS.
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Dan F.
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 02:34 pm |
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ghostrider wrote: taxwhat wrote: Big Gay Al wrote: Oh, I don't know. Maybe we should all go there for doughnuts or something.
There is danger out in Michigan ! from above 2 county LE cars come whipping into the parking lot, and proceed to do a felon stop on me. Danger ! My friend, who has seen the Glock on my right hip and hasn't said anything(he knows about my upbringing), is suddenly fearful of his life from the county mounties. DANGER!! After the whole "hands on your head! hands behind your back! hands on your head!"danger ordeal, I asked to start my tape recorder in my front shirt pocket. cool head I was allowed this, so I then questioned the deputy who appeared to be in more control of his emotions than the other 3 danger why I was being arrested. "A person called in and said a man had a gun tucked into his waistband". This worked out but could have been very bad ! Do we quit or EDUCATE ? Please if possible put recording on mp3 or something to allow all to hear it thanks. +1
Post it. Until you post it, it's just your word against theirs, and anything can happen to you or the recording. Once it's posted, there's not much they can do about it.
Did you cover up, or did they let you leave while OC'ing?
You also might forge some form of communication with the County Sherrif, as to the deputy's actions. Epically about the part about RS.
I, too hope you'll consider posting your recording of this incident. I think it's incredible.
(edited to correct a typo)
Last edited on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 02:35 pm by Dan F.
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DanM
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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azebolsky wrote: Ok, what a night. First time in handcuffs for openly carrying. . . .
Sorry to hear about that overreaction, but good job asserting your rights. Were you disarmed during the encounter? I don't think I saw anything indicating whether you were or not.
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azebolsky
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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Yes, I was disarmed during this encounter, and they had a tough time pulling it from my SERPA until I told them to push the button in and slide the thumb break forward. I'll see if I can get it transferred over to mp3. Got a buddy that transferred vinyl to mp3, so it should be possible.
Currently the specific tape is sitting in a fireproof safe in my closet, but yeah, I know what you mean. Until somebody else has a copy, it's still my word against theirs.
I honestly don't think anything could've really gone better, aside from them taking so long, and drawing their firearms, people got educated, nobody was injured, a handful of people are now more aware of their rights, and I got my bubblegum.
More to come later.
*S*
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4023 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 07:37 pm |
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azebolsky wrote: Yes, I was disarmed during this encounter, and they had a tough time pulling it from my SERPA until I told them to push the button in and slide the thumb break forward. I'll see if I can get it transferred over to mp3. Got a buddy that transferred vinyl to mp3, so it should be possible.
Currently the specific tape is sitting in a fireproof safe in my closet, but yeah, I know what you mean. Until somebody else has a copy, it's still my word against theirs.
I honestly don't think anything could've really gone better, aside from them taking so long, and drawing their firearms, people got educated, nobody was injured, a handful of people are now more aware of their rights, and I got my bubblegum.
More to come later.
*S*
Except for guns pointed at you, the handcuffing you, the detaining you and the illegal seizure of your property? You mean besides that? It was an illegal encounter all the way, after you asked "am I free to go". The "because you got a gun" crap has to stop, that is not RS or PC. I would file a complaint and FOIA the records. Chances are they may have recorded the audio as well. I don't Know if Eaton County has video in it's cars or if the deputies have mikes on. I suggest you be proactive in this.Last edited on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 07:38 pm by Venator
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warlockmatized
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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Venator wrote: azebolsky wrote: Yes, I was disarmed during this encounter, and they had a tough time pulling it from my SERPA until I told them to push the button in and slide the thumb break forward. I'll see if I can get it transferred over to mp3. Got a buddy that transferred vinyl to mp3, so it should be possible.
Currently the specific tape is sitting in a fireproof safe in my closet, but yeah, I know what you mean. Until somebody else has a copy, it's still my word against theirs.
I honestly don't think anything could've really gone better, aside from them taking so long, and drawing their firearms, people got educated, nobody was injured, a handful of people are now more aware of their rights, and I got my bubblegum.
More to come later.
*S*
Except for guns pointed at you, the handcuffing you, the detaining you and the illegal seizure of your property? You mean besides that? It was an illegal encounter all the way, after you asked "am I free to go". The "because you got a gun" crap has to stop, that is not RS or PC. I would file a complaint and FOIA the records. Chances are they may have recorded the audio as well. I don't Know if Eaton County has video in it's cars or if the deputies have mikes on. I suggest you be proactive in this. I have to agree.
Although you stated azebolsky "I honestly don't think anything could've really gone better, aside from them taking so long" at what point do we say ENOUGH!?
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DanM
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 08:10 pm |
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Venator wrote: It was an illegal encounter all the way, after you asked "am I free to go". The "because you got a gun" crap has to stop, that is not RS or PC. I would file a complaint and FOIA the records. Chances are they may have recorded the audio as well. I don't Know if Eaton County has video in it's cars or if the deputies have mikes on. I suggest you be proactive in this.
I agree. Institutions do not and will not change unless they are formally held to account, either through written complaints or lawsuits. azebolsky, I think a written complaint would be entirely appropriate as your minimum response, as long as all the facts support there being no RS or PC for your encounter. From what you presented, the officers' reactions were GROSSLY out of proportion for the situation.
ETA: Let me know if I can be of any help, if you choose to look into formally responding. I'm not an attorney so I can't be of legal assistance, but can at least offer moral support, proofreading documents, etc. 
Last edited on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 08:15 pm by DanM
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dreamer669
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 05:51 pm |
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| Had a chat with our local police chief, He informed me that my little sweet village, has a weapons ordinance that I can not OC ANY WEAPON IN THE VILLAGE LIMITS. That he hasn't seen any revised version stating diff. My ? is how do I obtain a legal statue of my village ordinance laws. I tried to explain the MPS site and our site. He is a good person.
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4023 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 07:14 pm |
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dreamer669 wrote: Had a chat with our local police chief, He informed me that my little sweet village, has a weapons ordinance that I can not OC ANY WEAPON IN THE VILLAGE LIMITS. That he hasn't seen any revised version stating diff. My ? is how do I obtain a legal statue of my village ordinance laws. I tried to explain the MPS site and our site. He is a good person.
Try that pesky little law called preemption on him. The ordinance is illegal, period. Show him the preemption, have him talk with their attorney and then have him get back to you. Simple really. Or you talk to the village board or supervisor and have them contact their attorney about preemption. Give him a copy of the info packet we have available in the info thread for LEO's. You can download it and print it out. If he still gives you the local law stuff let me know and I'll talk to him. If that doesn't work I'll come up and OC in his police station and see what happens.
In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
Last edited on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 07:15 pm by Venator
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smellslikemichigan
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 09:58 pm |
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dreamer669 wrote: Had a chat with our local police chief, He informed me that my little sweet village, has a weapons ordinance that I can not OC ANY WEAPON IN THE VILLAGE LIMITS. That he hasn't seen any revised version stating diff. My ? is how do I obtain a legal statue of my village ordinance laws. I tried to explain the MPS site and our site. He is a good person.
i feel a craving for hotdogs and brats coming on. where is shepherd anyway? some people thought hitler was a good person too.
edit: i just looked up shepherd... i can probably find some hotdogs a little closer to home
Last edited on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 10:00 pm by smellslikemichigan
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dreamer669
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 11:17 pm |
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| Thank you, made a copy of the lit for leo and will hand it to him. Still no problems in MT PLEASANT. OC every where I go. Thanks TIM Last edited on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 11:27 pm by dreamer669
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rppalm
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 02:58 pm |
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For the past month I have been oc everywhere I go around Linden, Fenton and Flint. The list is very long. From restaurants, grocery stores, book stores, car parts, banks.
The only bank that was a prob was National City on Flushing rd in Flushing. after cashing a check drawn on their bank the etller asked me if I wanted to open an acct. Said "no thanks" then she stated "we dont allow guns in here". I asked if that was official corp policy to which she said "yes".
Today went to Argentine school to drop off some paperwork for the kids. Went to the office. 3 ladies there. All eyes got very big but not a word said. Wasnt there long for anything to happen. Will go back to pick up kids early for another encounter sometime soon.
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quarter horseman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 07:06 pm |
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| I don't understand, dont you have to get permission to oc in a bank or school from the owner or someone like that that is how it is kinda stated in the law or am I wrong?
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rppalm
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 07:38 pm |
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| As I learned from this wonderful website OC in a pistol free zone with a CPL is perfectly legal. The Federal school pistol free zone also has this exception. Basically the only place you cant OC is in a post office or Fed court. Aint this a great country?
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 07:58 pm |
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quarter horseman wrote: I don't understand, dont you have to get permission to oc in a bank or school from the owner or someone like that that is how it is kinda stated in the law or am I wrong?
Banks are not pistol free zones. Unless you're OCing, and you Don't have a CPL.
And schools are pistol free zones for CC with a permit, or OC without a permit. However, you can OC if you have a CC permit. Weird, huh.
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 08:02 pm |
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rppalm wrote: As I learned from this wonderful website OC in a pistol free zone with a CPL is perfectly legal. The Federal school pistol free zone also has this exception. Basically the only place you cant OC is in a post office or Fed court. Aint this a great country?
Pretty much any place that is considered federal property is a Federal, pistol free zone.
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4023 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 08:04 pm |
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quarter horseman wrote: I don't understand, dont you have to get permission to oc in a bank or school from the owner or someone like that that is how it is kinda stated in the law or am I wrong?
If you have a CPL you can CC in a bank, since the license doesn't require you to CC you can OC, so a bank is okay. It is private property and they can ban firearms.
As for a public school we have not found any law that states you can't OC on or in a school regardless of a CPL. We know of no case law in this regard, but we do suggest caution. The only place I have found restrictions on school grounds is in regard to CC. Some smaller communities you won't have a problem in schools, others perhaps, this is still untested in a court of law.
As always these are my opinions and should not be confused with legal advice.
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4023 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 08:06 pm |
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Big Gay Al wrote: quarter horseman wrote: I don't understand, dont you have to get permission to oc in a bank or school from the owner or someone like that that is how it is kinda stated in the law or am I wrong?
Banks are not pistol free zones. Unless you're OCing, and you Don't have a CPL.
And schools are pistol free zones for CC with a permit, or OC without a permit. However, you can OC if you have a CC permit. Weird, huh.
Where is a school restricted for OC even without a permit? I have only found laws in regards to concealed carry. If you can please post it, as I've tried to find it.
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quarter horseman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 08:07 pm |
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| It is the best country in the world. It is strange that it is also stated that you need permission from the main person from that astablishment to be able to oc there at least thats how I read it, I'm probibly wrong but would love to know why it is worded that way in the law. Sorry I'm not good with computers so I don't know how to put the differant attachments to show up, if you look at the places you can not carry it is the last statment.
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rppalm
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 08:10 pm |
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| I would guess that if the owner saw you come in with a gun and didnt say anything that that would constitute tacit approval. I'm not a lawyer but it seems common sense.
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