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EM87
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 03:39 am |
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Just to clarify... you can OC in a bar with a CPL, right? Some guy who said his dad is a cop told me that they revised the law in 2007 to say that CPL or not, bar carry is illegal. I corrected him, saying that CPL holders are exempt from the OC pistol free zones (which include anywhere that sells alcohol), but he was insistent so I figured I'd make sure. I've read the law posted on the stickies on this site but I want to make sure it's the most current version of the law.
Also, +1 for bar carry tonight! I had the guy in charge approach me and tell me it was illegal, but when I explained the law to him he was happy to let me stay. Woohoo!
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Kimberguy
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 03:59 am |
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what bar were you at?
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Bronson
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 04:28 am |
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Bookmark these and refer to them often.
OC pistol free zones
CC pistol free zones
Michigan Self Defense Act of 2006 (excerpt)
Michigan Pre-emption Act of 1990
Michigan Law and Bill search page
Michigan Constitution
Michigan State Police Concealed Carry FAQs
Federal Firearms Laws
Transportation Security Administration info page on flying with a firearm
Bronson
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EM87
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 08:27 am |
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Kimberguy wrote:
what bar were you at?
Louie's Trophy House in Kalamazoo, or something like that. I'd never heard of it before. One of my friends was having a going away party there.
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EM87
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 08:47 am |
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Bronson wrote:
Bookmark these and refer to them often.
OC pistol free zones
CC pistol free zones
Michigan Self Defense Act of 2006 (excerpt)
Michigan Pre-emption Act of 1990
Michigan Law and Bill search page
Michigan Constitution
Michigan State Police Concealed Carry FAQs
Federal Firearms Laws
Transportation Security Administration info page on flying with a firearm
Bronson
Thanks, Bronson. I'm pretty familiar with all of that (but I reviewed it all anyway, like a responsible gun owner). I understand the part that says:
"750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon."
However, I still want to make sure that as far as any of you know, there have been no amendments regarding what I stated originally. I'd just feel more comfortable with it if I hear it from one of you guys.
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 04:45 pm |
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So far as I know, the only change to CPL carry was that you could carry concealed in any establishment that served alcohol as long is their income from alcohol sales was less than 50%.
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4017 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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Big Gay Al wrote: So far as I know, the only change to CPL carry was that you could carry concealed in any establishment that served alcohol as long is their income from alcohol sales was less than 50%.
The statute doesn't say 50% it says primary income. So if a business sell 35% food, 20% other and 45% alcohol then booze is their primary source of income, which is less than 50%. Another gray area that has no case law or AG opinion.
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 11:42 pm |
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Then I think we need to get an AG opinion, before one of us gets arrested.
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Venator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4017 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Sun Apr 19th, 2009 12:03 am |
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Big Gay Al wrote: Then I think we need to get an AG opinion, before one of us gets arrested.
He's too busy running for Gov. My senator has a request in for 2 months now with no response.
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 19th, 2009 12:13 am |
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That figures.
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FatboyCykes
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 10:14 pm |
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Nasty bump and I'm sorry. I do not have a CPL, took the class, waiting on my passport photo to apply.
Warren is hosting a Rotary club amusement park gathering at city hall. It's basically one of those carny events with rides a live show and food booths. My question, if any of these booths are serving alcohol, am I allowed to open carry to the event?
I'm not 100% sure that they even sell alcohol and if they don't, then I'm fairly positive that I'm in the clear. However, w/o a CPL, I think I might be in violation if they are. Can anyone add any insight?
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SpringerXDacp
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 10:28 pm |
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FatboyCykes wrote: Nasty bump and I'm sorry. I do not have a CPL, took the class, waiting on my passport photo to apply.
Warren is hosting a Rotary club amusement park gathering at city hall. It's basically one of those carny events with rides a live show and food booths. My question, if any of these booths are serving alcohol, am I allowed to open carry to the event?
I'm not 100% sure that they even sell alcohol and if they don't, then I'm fairly positive that I'm in the clear. However, w/o a CPL, I think I might be in violation if they are. Can anyone add any insight?
As long as you're not in the tent/secured area where the alcohol is sold you should be OK. It's highly unlikely the event would allow people to roam freely with alcohol. I've worked security for many carny events for the last 20 years and I have never witnessed where patrons were allowed to do this.
The City Hall would be subject to preemption, but thats not going to stop someone (proprietor/worker) from asking you to leave.
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 03:12 am |
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EM87 wrote: Just to clarify... you can OC in a bar with a CPL, right? Some guy who said his dad is a cop told me that they revised the law in 2007 to say that CPL or not, bar carry is illegal. I corrected him, saying that CPL holders are exempt from the OC pistol free zones (which include anywhere that sells alcohol), but he was insistent so I figured I'd make sure. I've read the law posted on the stickies on this site but I want to make sure it's the most current version of the law.
Also, +1 for bar carry tonight! I had the guy in charge approach me and tell me it was illegal, but when I explained the law to him he was happy to let me stay. Woohoo!
Next time get your yellow book out and show him. Chances are he won't want to look, but if he does, all the better.
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 03:47 am |
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FatboyCykes wrote: I'm not 100% sure that they even sell alcohol and if they don't, then I'm fairly positive that I'm in the clear. However, w/o a CPL, I think I might be in violation if they are. Can anyone add any insight?
I saw Blue Oyster Cult there a couple years ago. They had signs, and even radio advertisements which specified "no weapons". The police were there in great numbers, making rounds, giving everyone dirty looks like they were criminals. I thought of this immediately when they were so in your face to MOC when there was the picnic in warren.
If it can be ascertained that it's legal without a CPL, I'd love nothing more than to go OC with you there. Speaking of which, since I'm pretty close to warren, we should meet up some time, whether at this event or on another occasion
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Big Gay Al
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 05:29 am |
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FatboyCykes wrote: Nasty bump and I'm sorry. I do not have a CPL, took the class, waiting on my passport photo to apply.
You mean your county clerk doesn't offer to take the picture for you? Just wondering because when a first applied as well as when I renewed, Ingham County Clerk's office was taking pictures for a few dollars.
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FatboyCykes
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 10:02 am |
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Michigander wrote: FatboyCykes wrote: I'm not 100% sure that they even sell alcohol and if they don't, then I'm fairly positive that I'm in the clear. However, w/o a CPL, I think I might be in violation if they are. Can anyone add any insight?
I saw Blue Oyster Cult there a couple years ago. They had signs, and even radio advertisements which specified "no weapons". The police were there in great numbers, making rounds, giving everyone dirty looks like they were criminals. I thought of this immediately when they were so in your face to MOC when there was the picnic in warren.
If it can be ascertained that it's legal without a CPL, I'd love nothing more than to go OC with you there. Speaking of which, since I'm pretty close to warren, we should meet up some time, whether at this event or on another occasion
Sounds like a plan  I've got a call into the warren city attorney's office. We'll see I guess. I mean, it's technically public property and I would think preemption would apply.
You mean your county clerk doesn't offer to take the picture for you? Just wondering because when a first applied as well as when I renewed, Ingham County Clerk's office was taking pictures for a few dollars.
You know, I'm sure they do. The gentleman who did my CPL class offered to take them for free since we were able to get a decent sized class, but he had to process them and print them and deliver them. Class was on a Sat. and he left for Mexico on Mon. What with all the swine flu stuff going around, I guess his trip to Mexico was a total nightmare and he didn't get to send them out until yesterday :/
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