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longwatch
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 12:08 am |
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Sounds like this was written by someone from this forum.
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/OPINION02/712020586/1085/opinion
Published December 2, 2007
[ From Lansing State Journal]
Jeffs: Mich. is among states that allow citizens to openly carry handguns
Some restrictions do apply, but citizens have right to carry
A movement is growing nationwide as more residents are exerting a right that is not often exercised. That right is the open carry of a handgun for all lawful purposes.
Forty-four states allow the open carry of a handgun by adults who can lawfully own one. Few realize, including some in law enforcement, that Michigan is one of these states.
One does not need a concealed pistol license to open carry, but it makes it easier to do so. In Michigan, non-CPL holders can only transport an unloaded handgun secured in a case or in the trunk of their vehicle under specific conditions defined by law (MCL 750.227).
CPL holders, however, can transport a loaded handgun in their vehicle or on their person, either concealed or openly.
CPL holders can carry or transport a handgun registered to another person as long as the handgun is lawfully owned and registered in Michigan (MCL Act 372, 28.432). A non-CPL holder can only carry a handgun that is registered in their name.
If one spouse is a CPL holder and the other is not, the CPL holding spouse can transport the other's handgun as well as their own. Once the non-CPL holding spouse leaves the vehicle they can carry their loaded handgun openly. This method can be employed by non-relatives as well. A non-CPL holder must unload and secure his handgun before entering a vehicle.
Why open carry? One reason is that an adult under 21 years of age can not get a CPL in Michigan, but the law allows them to openly carry. A second reason is that a person may not be able to afford the high cost of the initial permit, which can exceed $300.
Before deciding to openly carry a handgun, it behooves you to research Michigan firearm laws (http://www.michigan.gov/msp). There are restrictions in which a person can possess a firearm. These restrictions vary slightly for concealed carry and open carry. These restrictions can be found in MCL 28.424o and 750.234d. Game laws also exist that restrict times and areas a firearm can be carried.
Michigan has a firearm preemption law that disallows local municipalities from passing laws more restrictive than the state without state approval. This allows open carry in any city as well as most municipal buildings.
Most federal property has restrictions on firearm possession. A review of federal firearm laws is recommended.
Additionally, private property owners can restrict firearms in their building and on their property. If you are asked to leave private property, you must do so or face a trespass charge.
Openly carrying a firearm has restrictions and is not for everyone. Become familiar with firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Carrying a firearm is a great responsibility each person must consider.
For those wishing to carry a firearm for protection and all lawful purposes, though, it is an option worth looking into. Remember, a right not exercised is a right lost.
- Brian Jeffs lives in Bath.
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 12:10 am by longwatch
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Venator
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 03:49 pm |
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It was me. The link is here but may be archived by now.
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/OPINION02/712020586/1085/opinion
Attached Image (viewed 48 times):
THIS WAS IN THE DEC. 9th paper as a response. Feel free to leave a comment after the article.
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/OPINION02/712090666/1085/opinion
F. Holmes: Carrying gun openly is horrible idea
It may be legal to carry gun, but it's not safe thing to do
I just read Brian Jeffs' informative, insightful and incredibly irresponsible commentary (Dec. 2) about Michigan law on carrying a handgun openly.
Jeffs has effectively opened the door to doubling every police agency's calls for service in the area of citizens trying to openly carry firearms into banks, hospitals, universities, just to name a few.
I'm sure the educated, informed and responsible public will heed his suggestion they review state and federal law before attempting this ill-advised idea. That will cover about 15 percent of the population.
Does he really believe that the same vast population who are unable to read the two or three sentences on a Michigan Vehicle Registration requiring the registered owner to sign the back of the document are going to visit a state or federal law library or even go to a Web site to read multiple complex and restrictive legislation?
Jeffs' audience for this article was meant to be the informed, intelligent and responsible citizen. That part I understand. What Jeffs fails to recognize is he is also addressing the lazy, apathetic and yet to be identified disturbed people. The very same people who believe owning and operating a motor vehicle, no matter how extensive and abusive their record may be, is a "right" and not a privilege.
Which brings me to Jeffs' other flawed argument. He makes a huge contradiction in his article when he says "carrying a weapon is a great responsibility each person must consider." Yet his entire article is intended to shed light on every person's right to openly carry a firearm.
In today's world of drugs, violence, terrorism, school shooters and the general unstable element in every society, does it really sound like a good idea to try to carry a firearm openly? Even if you are a model citizen who has educated himself on the law, I can tell you how it will play out.
After multiple 911 calls, the police will respond with lights and sirens blaring. Numerous officers will confront you with high-powered rifles. They will not ask you whether or not you are a law-abiding citizen. They will not even ask you your name.
Best-case scenario is you are forcibly disarmed and humiliated. Worst case, you will be injured or killed if you do something stupid.
When it's all said and done you may have been legally right, but the first rule of law enforcement is "go home to your family at the end of your shift!" That rule is not up for debate, and I can tell you from experience who is the odds-on favorite to win that fight.
This is an unpredictable and often times cruel and unfair world. People make bad decisions every day with sometimes tragic consequences. I think that it's careless to encourage society to undertake such inherently dangerous activities just because you think it's your right to flirt with danger.
Besides, will it really be worth it if something did go tragically wrong because you exercised a right society already provides trained professionals to undertake?
Last edited on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 03:50 pm by Venator
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who_dat
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 12:07 am |
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It sounds like F. Holmes would be ok with it if he/she got to decide for us who among the unwashed massed got to excercise this right to Open Carry. Sounds like another ideolgical rant from another liberal who would want us to so as they say, not as they do. Sorry, Holmes, it doesn't fly with me.
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Venator
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 02:18 pm |
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who_dat wrote: It sounds like F. Holmes would be ok with it if he/she got to decide for us who among the unwashed massed got to excercise this right to Open Carry. Sounds like another ideolgical rant from another liberal who would want us to so as they say, not as they do. Sorry, Holmes, it doesn't fly with me.
I have found out that F. Holmes is a Lansing Police officer, so his comments on my article would be expected. Hopefully he has learned something about open carry.
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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Lansing huh?
I say that's good enough cause for an OCDO picknic in Lansing.
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mastiff69
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 04:50 pm |
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Are you going to bring the pickinickit a basket yogi ?
I'll bring my fork and plate
Say in Feb 16 Sat.
Sounds like a good reason to meet
( Venator should we post a call to meet ???)
what your opinion ?
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 04:53 pm |
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| So officer Holmes is warning everyone that police will violate your right to OC?
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Venator
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 05:05 pm |
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When the weather gets nicer this spring I was going to have lunch in the outdoor courtyard adjacent to the Police department. They have lovely benches there along Michigan avenue with the state capital right across the street. A nice central location.
As for something sooner I would be up for it. They do have several restaurants and shops in that area as well. What do you all think? Mastiff69 and I were also discussing something in Marshall soon. That would be central to Lansing, Jackson and Battle Creek. I would also like to do something in the Detroit metro area as well. I think we would get more people to participate when the weather gets better, but I would be up for something anytime.
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Sheldon
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 08:54 pm |
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| WoW the usually anti LSG! good story and M glad to see the movement is gaining momentum.
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bossbart
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:14 pm |
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| the trained professionals are in the dounut shop.
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kmcdowel
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 05:50 am |
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I think that it's careless to encourage society to undertake such inherently dangerous activities just because you think it's your right to flirt with danger.
Inherently dangerous?? What !
I would consider not carrying flirting with danger.
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dng
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 11:23 am |
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I hate to see this kind of elitist attitude in LEO's. We don't need law enforcement that thinks they're better than everyone else just because they have a badge. I have nothing against LEOs, they have a very important job, but don't start lecturing a law abiding citizen on what rights he should exercise. Thankfully, that's not part of a LEO's job description, even though some like to tack it on there.
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WARCHILD
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 10:08 pm |
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You mention picnic and I'm there, outdoor food is the best. My son Steve is also the president of the Flint Gear Grinders car club. What would you think of a joint picnic with the car club. They have several car shows around the Flint area every summer. If you think it would be acceptable I could set it up with Steve. We could have some "Eye Candy" from both worlds for people to admire.
Jerry
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sccrref
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 10:29 pm |
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Mike wrote: So officer Holmes is warning everyone that police will violate your right to OC?
I guess officer Holmes has just lumped himself and fellow LEOs into the mass of uneducated and non reading individuals he thinks the rest of are. It is apparent that he and (according to him) his fellow LEOs are unable to read, understand, follow and enforce the laws of the state that they swore to do. I am glad I do not live there and have to put up with his retoric and unwanted preaching. I hope that those of you who do live in and decide to OC in the area do not submit to this bull@#$%. I would guess that the resulting lawsuits would help to get them in line. Just my .02.
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mastiff69
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 01:02 am |
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Ya know, i am not a hell raiser, BUT i do believe that my family has in the past given in the time of need to this country. Every generation of my family has served in every war from Iraq all the way back in time at least 7 generations with blood sweat and there lives. We hold the USA with the deepest regard over the hundreds of years to protect it and support it since the 1700's. All be %$#@ if i will allow a a ignorant law enforcement officer to offend myself, my family, my country, with his BS.
If need be Venator (I) personally will call this holmes (LE) out his cave to address myself and demand he puts up the documentation and prove his claim, or he can recant his story, the same way he put it out there to begin with. our better yet, let his supervisors become involved in his extra storytelling activities and see if they approve of his notion of what the law is!!!!! PS just venting
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 01:09 am |
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sccrref wrote: Mike wrote: So officer Holmes is warning everyone that police will violate your right to OC?
I guess officer Holmes has just lumped himself and fellow LEOs into the mass of uneducated and non reading individuals he thinks the rest of are. It is apparent that he and (according to him) his fellow LEOs are unable to read, understand, follow and enforce the laws of the state that they swore to do. I am glad I do not live there and have to put up with his retoric and unwanted preaching. I hope that those of you who do live in and decide to OC in the area do not submit to this bull@#$%. I would guess that the resulting lawsuits would help to get them in line. Just my .02.
I agree, do not fall for these bully tactics from those in the law enforcement community that will try to deter those from doing what is legal. I wonder how some of these people would have acted if they were on duty back in the day when blacks could vote for the first time. They are LEO's not OEO's (opinion enforcement officers). If I get transferred to Michigan, there will be one more LEO there that has no problem with a lawful person open carrying.
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Venator
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 02:49 pm |
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You can post comments to the holmes article by following this link.
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/OPINION02/712090666/1085/opinion
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Venator
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 03:05 pm |
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WARCHILD wrote: You mention picnic and I'm there, outdoor food is the best. My son Steve is also the president of the Flint Gear Grinders car club. What would you think of a joint picnic with the car club. They have several car shows around the Flint area every summer. If you think it would be acceptable I could set it up with Steve. We could have some "Eye Candy" from both worlds for people to admire.
Jerry
I would be very interested in doing something in the Flint area. Do they have any shows in Flint proper? If not a formal picnic at least a meet and greet. I would think we could get others from this site to attend. Let us know when the show schedule comes out.
Are the shows on public property or private. If private the sponsors of the show may not allow firearms. Just something to check on.
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WARCHILD
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 04:00 pm |
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| The shows are held around the Genessee county area i.e.- Flint, Mt. morris, Fenton, Gd.Blanc. Most are held on private property parking lots that are big enough to accomodate 40+ cars. Yes, property owners must allow our being there. I just wanted to see if this was an acceptable idea before I tried to set it up.
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SpringerXDacp
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 09:36 pm |
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WARCHILD wrote: The shows are held around the Genessee county area i.e.- Flint, Mt. morris, Fenton, Gd.Blanc. Most are held on private property parking lots that are big enough to accomodate 40+ cars. Yes, property owners must allow our being there. I just wanted to see if this was an acceptable idea before I tried to set it up.
I am 10-15 minutes from the areas you mentioned. Send me a PM when it's a go, anybody.
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