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madrevar
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 01:58 pm |
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3-2-09
12:30pm
Coon Rapids (Riverdale Crossing)
For reference, I begin this story carrying a CZ82 9x18mm in an all but unused Czech leather police holster, with thumb-break. I am wearing nothing but shorts/tshirt/sandals with only wallet/gun on me, with keys in left hand and beverage in right.
My girlfriend and I had just eaten at Chipotle and were leaving to pay my phone bill at the adjacent TMobile. After leaving Tmobile, we proceeded across the lot to my truck. I got as far as the rearend of my truck, when a Coon Rapids Police Department marked car flew in and stopped a few parking spots to the left and opposite my side, approximately 15 yards away.
The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me with his pistol drawn, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!"
After disarming me and handing my pistol to his partner to be secured, he immediately started cuffing me. I ask, "Officer, may I ask why we are cuffing?" To which he replies, "So I can frisk you and put you in the car." At this point I am not sure what is going to happen, but start thinking a "Disorderly Conduct/Distubing The Peace" charge is in my future. After putting me in his squad, he and his partner and another officer deliberate on what to charge me with and if open carry is legal. After about ten minutes he comes back and starts asking me the rudimentary questions for his report, where I live, phone number, etc. After that he lets me out of the car, uncuffs me and gives me my keys and wallet back, but no gun yet.
First he gives me the speil about how open carry is not the best idea, sheeple will call MWAG, and how if enough sheople would have been disturbed he would have charged me. He also told me that when and if I have law enforcement respond again I should be fine if I do as I did that day. He also admitted that he didn't have much experience with carrying off-duty much so he hasn't had to deal with it himself. All in all the Officers were polite and professional, even if a bit excessive with the detainment. He had me and the girlfriend get in my truck, hands my pistol and mag back to me through my window. I notice my previously-chambered round is missing, so I asked him to get that for me. We shook hands and I asked for his card. Then he went on his way.
No particular agenda on my part, just looking for comments and contructive criticisms from all. Thanks
Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:34 pm by madrevar
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:03 pm |
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Where does one begin?! A good digital recorder would have been of obvious benefit.
Apology, retraining, illegal detainment, color of law, civil suit et al.
Yata hey
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NavyLT
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:37 pm |
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The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!" All in all the Officers were polite and porfessional
The two quoted statements from your post are in direct conflict with each other.
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:56 pm |
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madrevar wrote: snip....
All in all the Officers were polite and porfessional
Porfessional = poor-fessional? More a Freudian slip than a typo perhaps. 
Yata hey
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madrevar
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:18 pm |
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I decided to purchase one that evening. Also, there may be something to your analysis of my typo
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madrevar
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:22 pm |
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NavyLT wrote: The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!" All in all the Officers were polite and porfessional
The two quoted statements from your post are in direct conflict with each other.
Its my understanding that an officer is trained to assert authority with aggression while doing the actual detaining, just to keep the suspect in control. During the "afterglow", he and his partners were respectful and understanding once they figured the law out. Their behavior was inconsistent; not so much my description of it.
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:52 pm |
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Maybe it's my advanced age, but posts are much harder to follow when they don't contain paragraph breaks.
Please, PLEASE use paragraphs.
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LRS76251
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 04:55 pm |
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madrevar wrote: 3-2-09
12:30pm
Coon Rapids (Riverdale Crossing)
For reference, I begin this story carrying a CZ82 9x18mm in an all but unused Czech leather police holster, with thumb-break. I am wearing nothing but shorts/tshirt/sandals with only wallet/gun on me, with keys in left hand and beverage in right.
My girlfriend and I had just eaten at Chipotle and were leaving to pay my phone bill at the adjacent TMobile. After leaving Tmobile, we proceeded across the lot to my truck. I got as far as the rearend of my truck, when a Coon Rapids Police Department marked car flew in and stopped a few parking spots to the left and opposite my side, approximately 15 yards away. The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!" After disarming me and handing my pistol to his partner to be secured, he immediately started cuffing me. I ask, "Officer, may I ask why we are cuffing?" To which he replies, "So I can frisk you and put you in the car." At this point I am not sure what is going to happen, but start thinking a "Disorderly Conduct/Distubing The Peace" charge is in my future. After putting me in his squad, he and his partner and another officer deliberate on what to charge me with and if open carry is legal. After about ten minutes he comes back and starts asking me the rudimentary questions for his report, where I live, phone number, etc. After that he lets me out of the car, uncuffs me and gives me my keys and wallet back, but no gun yet. First he gives me the speil about how open carry is not the best idea, sheeple will call MWAG, and how if enough sheople would have been disturbed he would have charged me. He also told me that when and if I have law enforcement respond again I should be fine if I do as I did that day. He also admitted that he didn't have much experience with carrying off-duty much so he hasn't had to deal with it himself. All in all the Officers were polite and porfessional, even if a bit excessive with the detainment. He had me and the girlfriend get in my truck, hands my pistol and mag back to me through my window. I notice my previously-chambered round is missing, so I asked him to get that for me. We shook hands and I asked for his card. Then he went on his way.
No particular agenda on my part, just looking for comments and contructive criticisms from all. Thanks
Damn rooks. Some flutter kicks and pushups as well as some "other "types of cardio is in order for this young officer. He needs serious retraining. Retrain him properly after his ass drops from all the endless PT.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 02:07 am |
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Since OC is legal in MN with a permit, according to the Map Page here on OCDO, it sounds to me like your 4th Amendment rights were abused.
I am not a lawyer. Exactly how bad the cops misbehaved will depend on what the police were told in the 911 call, or however they found out about you.
If they were given some false report, the law may view their actions as legal.
I kinda doubt they were given a false report based on the cop's early question as to whether you knew what concealed carry meant.
If your state has an Open Government Law/Sunshine Law/Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), you may be able to get a copy of the 911 call and radio traffic to and from the patrol car.
In your shoes, once I exhausted the FOIA possibilities and knew for sure the police were not given a false report, I'd write a real no-nonsense formal complaint. Polite, civil, but leaving no room for any doubt about how I viewed such a ridiculous and inexcuseable violation of basic rights. I'd include recommendations for training, and make it clear I wanted a response as to what the department planned to do about it.
Calling a lawyer might not be a bad idea to get a fuller picture of all your options.
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 04:55 pm |
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NavyLT wrote: The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!" All in all the Officers were polite and porfessional
The two quoted statements from your post are in direct conflict with each other.
Agreed. The SS were often polite as they helped the infirm into the gas chambers.
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Gray Peterson
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2009 12:41 pm |
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Just noticed the thread over at TwinCitiesCarry.
Last edited on Mon Mar 9th, 2009 12:42 pm by Gray Peterson
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2009 08:14 pm |
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madrevar wrote: I decided to purchase one that evening.
It usually takes an event to motivate some of us to buy one. Recorders are perhaps the best tool we have to proactivly defend liberty in general (and not just "gun" rights). They're great on traffic stops too.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE GET ONE TODAY AND USE IT (and know the laws of your state regarding audio recording in public)
send this picture to the officer  :
Attached Image (viewed 1877 times):
 Last edited on Wed Apr 1st, 2009 03:55 am by cato
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2009 01:17 pm |
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cato wrote: madrevar wrote: I decided to purchase one that evening.
It usually takes an event to motivate some of us to buy one. Recorders are perhaps the best tool we have to proactivly defend liberty in general (and not just "gun" rights). There great on traffic stops too.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE GET ONE TODAY AND USE IT (and know the laws of your state regarding audio recording in public)
send this picture to the officer :
Priceless would be carrying the way JMB designed 'em to be carried - condition 1!
Good luck with that. 
Yata hey
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pkbites
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 24th, 2009 06:06 am |
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Citizen wrote: Since OC is legal in MN with a permit, according to the Map Page here on OCDO, it sounds to me like your 4th Amendment rights were abused.
Minnesota's Department of Public Safety has a "frequently asked questions" page that says this:
22. If I have a permit to carry a pistol do I have to conceal the pistol?
No. Minnesota’s Personal Protection Act is a permit to carry law, not a conceal and carry law. The pistol does not need to be concealed, but can be concealed.
This isn't coming from a pro-gun web site or some blog. This is coming directly from the states Department of Public Safety, for kripes sake! Find out who those cops are and email this link to them and their supervisors!
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/FAQs.html
Last edited on Tue Mar 24th, 2009 06:08 am by pkbites
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smithman
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 29th, 2009 08:46 pm |
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madrevar, many things here are out of line. The LEO pointing his weapon at you, unlawful detaintion, unlawful arrest (when he cuffed you an put you in his car you were legally arrested), etc...
I would pursue legal options since your rights have been violated. The fact that he realized his error is good, however he went way too far and was one finger movement away from killing you for your OBEYING THE LAW.
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vote_no
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 08:36 am |
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At least you weren't in Golden Valley.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 12:35 pm |
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madrevar wrote: 3-2-09
12:30pm
Coon Rapids (Riverdale Crossing)
For reference, I begin this story carrying a CZ82 9x18mm in an all but unused Czech leather police holster, with thumb-break. I am wearing nothing but shorts/tshirt/sandals with only wallet/gun on me, with keys in left hand and beverage in right.
My girlfriend and I had just eaten at Chipotle and were leaving to pay my phone bill at the adjacent TMobile. After leaving Tmobile, we proceeded across the lot to my truck. I got as far as the rearend of my truck, when a Coon Rapids Police Department marked car flew in and stopped a few parking spots to the left and opposite my side, approximately 15 yards away.
The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me with his pistol drawn, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!"
After disarming me and handing my pistol to his partner to be secured, he immediately started cuffing me. I ask, "Officer, may I ask why we are cuffing?" To which he replies, "So I can frisk you and put you in the car." At this point I am not sure what is going to happen, but start thinking a "Disorderly Conduct/Distubing The Peace" charge is in my future. After putting me in his squad, he and his partner and another officer deliberate on what to charge me with and if open carry is legal. After about ten minutes he comes back and starts asking me the rudimentary questions for his report, where I live, phone number, etc. After that he lets me out of the car, uncuffs me and gives me my keys and wallet back, but no gun yet.
First he gives me the speil about how open carry is not the best idea, sheeple will call MWAG, and how if enough sheople would have been disturbed he would have charged me. He also told me that when and if I have law enforcement respond again I should be fine if I do as I did that day. He also admitted that he didn't have much experience with carrying off-duty much so he hasn't had to deal with it himself. All in all the Officers were polite and professional, even if a bit excessive with the detainment. He had me and the girlfriend get in my truck, hands my pistol and mag back to me through my window. I notice my previously-chambered round is missing, so I asked him to get that for me. We shook hands and I asked for his card. Then he went on his way.
No particular agenda on my part, just looking for comments and contructive criticisms from all. Thanks
Follow up with as minimum, formal complaint - by formal, I just mean somthing written (even email or web form) , short, concise, to the chief or other official channels - follow up, make sure it won;t happen again.
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IdahoCorsair
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sun Aug 27th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 341 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Thu Apr 2nd, 2009 04:01 pm |
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And you think this was a good/professional encounter? 
It seems we have to re-educate even ourselves as to what the cop should have done... NOTHING! Or if he was in doubt about the legality of OC, he should keep an eye on you while calling it in to check. Or if he was really gung-ho, he should ask you to stay put (not cuff you, and not disarm you)... while he calls it in... your reaction would tell him a lot about you and the legality of what you're doing. All in all a rookie/overzealous, badge-heavy response. 
I'd file a complaint for harassment, unlawful arrest (cuffs=arrest), non-policy use of firearm, abuse of position, and waste of your time among others. No need to sue in this case, but I'd definitely file a complaint.
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romma
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 03:08 am |
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If the nice Mr police man seemed polite and professional, then he did a superb job at some serious back tracking and white washing his initial behavior in this encounter.
Smart cop with some serious survival skills. I love the term a lot of them use: "Ignorance is no excuse of the law". Except for them...
Not to knock all cops as there are some good ones out there.
Oh, "Porfessional"... That made my day worth it! I will never forget that word and will use it often as needed.
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 07:27 pm |
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romma wrote: snip....
Oh, "Porfessional"... That made my day worth it! I will never forget that word and will use it often as needed.
Difference between a professional and an amateur - the professional gets paid for his mistakes - it's true in all trades/professions.
Yata hey
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