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Tiger
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 15th, 2009 |
| Location: | Lakeville |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 08:46 pm |
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I am looking for opinions here. I am a 32 State CCW Permit holder. I don’t drink, Smoke or for any other practical purpose break the law. Here is my story.
I am a band member and have a regular Wednesday night gig. I am also an Open Carry Advocate. (and yes I realize my guinea pig status) At one of my shows the bartender asks me what their CCW policy is. I tell her the bar has no policy. She said a guy complained that I was carrying. I told her seeing she was alone on duty tonight I would just take it off and put it in my hidden holster in the back of my amp. Before I could do that, two cops grab me and put my arms behind my back and stuff me out the front door. They push me up against the wall and tell me that they had a man with a gun call. I told them I am your man. They ask where my gun is. I tell them it’s in my transport case and its sitting on a table in the bar unattended thanks to them. We go in and retrieve it. (They don’t let me touch it) And after checking my legal status and finding everything is ok, they insist that I keep my gun in my car! I didn’t argue. Then the insisted my Buck knife join my gun in the car! I protested and demanded my knife. They complied. Come to find out the person who called 911 that night and was complaining about my gun was an off duty Sergeant from that local police force!!!
Next morning I had a long chat with the Chief of Police on the phone and discussed the mistakes his officers made with me and he said he would use the incident for training purposes. Happy Happy Joy Joy!
Forward to last Wednesday; I finish 4 hours of playing at this same bar. I have to hurry and pack up because I own my own company and can’t get out of the trip planned for the am. I am finishing packing the trailer and as I come out I have a Surefire Turbo head banged in my eyes from 20 feet away and someone yells “PUT YOUR HANDS UP!” I pull my Surefire to return fire as myself and many of the guys that do I do security with at the local bars do to each other. The voice yells out in a manner that I now recognize from watching enough cops on TV. “PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND WALK TOWARD MY VOICE!!!” I do as I am told and when I see that they are cops (BECAUSE THEY NEVER SAID POLICE!) I say I know why you’re here. I have a permit to carry. I will show it to you. They still insisted I go to my knees in front of the crowd of my fans that is now watching in disbelief just like last time. They take my 45 and my Buck again and then allow me (thank you sir may I please have another!) to stand up and present my papers. The check out and they say someone called and said I had an argument with someone in the bar and flashed my gun to scare them. I told them that that wasn’t true and that I had many witnesses to prove it and that they should go in the bar and find out who called and let them know that filing a false police report is illegal. They refused to even conceder it. Told me if I make people nervous they can make that call with no recourse on my part. They finished with “Well maybe you shouldn’t wear your gun!” I knew where I stood with them and told them I would take it up with the chief in the am. (DID I MENTION THAT ONE OF THE OFFICERS THER POINTING HIS WEPON AT ME THAT NIGHT WAS THE SAME SARGENT THAT CALLED 911 ON ME THE FIRST TIME?)
Upon calling the chief this morning, he has totally changed his tune and told me to file a complaint. He also added “Maybe you shouldn’t carry your gun in there.”
Am I the only one that smells harassment? Everyone’s input is welcome. Thanks and sorry. Didn’t mean to write a book!
Tiger
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rpyne
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 580 |
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Posted: Sat May 16th, 2009 04:45 am |
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This is beyond filing a complaint, you need to file an FOIA request for both incidents and find a good civil rights attorney and file a federal civil rights suit against the officers, the department and the city. The law and the court precedents are on your side.
Edit: delete excessive quote
Last edited on Sat May 16th, 2009 04:47 am by rpyne
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paul2
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 15th, 2009 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 06:21 pm |
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| lawyer time my friend, they was all bs on the cops part.Just because they want act like bozos with badges does not mean we should let them
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JohnK87
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:42 am |
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Lawyer up. I bet they don't even have a '911 complaint' call. It probably is the same Sergeant.
What town was this?
If you want to make some money, keep exercising your rights but have someone in the bar with a video camera record the harassment for you.
Last edited on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:44 am by JohnK87
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codename_47
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 16th, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 10:14 pm |
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I didn’t argue
Weak.
Next morning I had a long chat with the Chief of Police on the phone and discussed the mistakes his officers made with me and he said he would use the incident for training purposes.
And you believed him?
I knew where I stood with them and told them I would take it up with the chief in the am.
Because it was so productive the first time??
Am I the only one that smells harassment?
I think that is obvious, but the real question is: what are you going to do about it? Go talk to the chief again? Maybe write an editorial in the newspaper? Why don't you do something meaningful and sue them? If you get abused and are willing to take it, then you really don't have much to complain about.
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 06:40 pm |
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Tiger wrote:“Well maybe you shouldn’t wear your gun!”
Upon calling the chief this morning, he has totally changed his tune and told me to file a complaint. He also added “Maybe you shouldn’t carry your gun in there.”
Am I the only one that smells harassment? Everyone’s input is welcome. Thanks and sorry. Didn’t mean to write a book!
Tiger
First, it's so refreshing to read the writings of Northerners. Our pieces contain correct spelling and punctuation and flow with well-formed thoughts. I recently moved to the South, and, well, let's say that standards aren't kept up.
Second, "harrassment?" Dude, they aimed deadly force at you while stripping you of your civil rights. If there were any justice, these cops would serve long prison terms for their felonies, and you would make millions from the lawsuit.
File a complaint with the Prosecutor. These criminals need to be behind bars.
99% of our problems come at the hands of the police. We need to take the country back.
We also need a dispatch system where OC'ers can bring reinforcements to defend an OC'er against a criminal attack.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 05:07 am |
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smoking357 wrote: SNIP First, it's so refreshing to read the writings of Northerners. Our pieces contain correct spelling and punctuation and flow with well-formed thoughts. I recently moved to the South, and, well, let's say that standards aren't kept up.
 
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 05:45 am |
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Citizen wrote: smoking357 wrote: SNIP First, it's so refreshing to read the writings of Northerners. Our pieces contain correct spelling and punctuation and flow with well-formed thoughts. I recently moved to the South, and, well, let's say that standards aren't kept up.
Oh, don't get mad. You live in the North, and you know it. "The North" now extends down to the Triangle.
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Tiger
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 15th, 2009 |
| Location: | Lakeville |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:34 am |
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I didn’t argue
Weak.
Weak? How about choosing ones battles wisely? Arguing with a LEO will get you nowhere but in handcuffs. I had a show to finish. My brother argued for me and wound up in jail for disorderly.
Next morning I had a long chat with the Chief of Police on the phone and discussed the mistakes his officers made with me and he said he would use the incident for training purposes.
And you believed him?
Yes. I like to give a man that gives me his word the benefit of a doubt. Fool me once...
I knew where I stood with them and told them I would take it up with the chief in the am.
Because it was so productive the first time??
Got me there.
Am I the only one that smells harassment?
I think that is obvious, but the real question is: what are you going to do about it? Go talk to the chief again? Maybe write an editorial in the newspaper? Why don't you do something meaningful and sue them? If you get abused and are willing to take it, then you really don't have much to complain about.
Kind of an excitable little guy aren't we? I was looking for opinions I know. Not a scolding Daddy.
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Tiger
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 15th, 2009 |
| Location: | Lakeville |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:39 am |
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| I am waiting for the transcripts of the 911 calls. I went down to the courthouse and paid to get them. Then I will pursue council. I am not loaded so cost is an issue but principal is the issue. Thanks to all who have taken time to reply and to join me in the fight to protect our rights. Tiger
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Tiger
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 15th, 2009 |
| Location: | Lakeville |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:46 am |
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| The town was Savage Mn. Only town I have ever had a problem in. Stood and talked to the Governor and his two bodyguards for 20 minutes at a show with not a word about my sidearm but in a crappy little bar in Savage I am harassed twice in 2 months! YIKES!
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 06:01 am |
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smoking357 wrote: Citizen wrote: smoking357 wrote: SNIP First, it's so refreshing to read the writings of Northerners. Our pieces contain correct spelling and punctuation and flow with well-formed thoughts. I recently moved to the South, and, well, let's say that standards aren't kept up.
Oh, don't get mad. You live in the North, and you know it. "The North" now extends down to the Triangle.
Jus' cause we been invaded ag'in doan mean this is the Nawth.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 06:11 am |
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Tiger wrote: I am waiting for the transcripts of the 911 calls. I went down to the courthouse and paid to get them. Then I will pursue council. I am not loaded so cost is an issue but principal is the issue. Thanks to all who have taken time to reply and to join me in the fight to protect our rights. Tiger
I'm curious. Are transcripts all you can obtain?
Transcripts can be doctored.
The open government laws I have read all pertained to "public records". In this case, the public record is the recording itself. I should think that anyway. Thus a copy of the public record would be a recording copy of original recording.
Lots harder to doctor those.
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Tiger
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| Joined: | Fri May 15th, 2009 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 11:55 pm |
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| Lucky enough the dispatch is through the county Sheriffs office. They are big enough to not be able to put 2 and 2 together. FOIA means they can't change them from the original because they have to give me both transcripts and recordings if I request them.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 03:57 pm |
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I do believe this is what you are looking for.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/usc_sec_42_00001983----000-.html
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=6603
Last edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:04 pm by J.Gleason
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