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ECALEXANDER
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 17th, 2009 |
| Location: | Moss Point, USA |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 17th, 2009 12:19 pm |
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Was stopped on 02/12/2009 by MPPD 139 gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun.
He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas"
First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon.
So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
Didn't get a chance to ask them what law was I breaking by openly carrying with a valid permit, after my serial numbers came back the original officer handed me my pistol and said GO! So I went!
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 17th, 2009 01:05 pm |
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Best as I can tell, absent any other probable cause, running the serial numbers was an unlawful search and seizure. You may want to consult an attorney on that.
Doe your MS permit require your weapon be concealed? If so, that flies in the face of what the AG's office has been spouting about no such thing as unconcealed.
Most, not all, "law enforcement" officers have no idea just what the law actually is, discussing it with them on the side of the road is most often a waste of time.
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JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 129 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 03:35 am |
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ECALEXANDER wrote: So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
So one of Moss Point's finest states the obvious in regard to open carry. 
It's a shame he doesn't understand the Mississippi constitution. It's hard to know the law when the statutes are so convoluted and contradictory. Best of luck if you decide to pursue the matter further but it would be so much better if police behaved knowledgeably as well as professionally and courteously. Unfortunately, Mark is right that a roadside discussion rarely helps remedy their ignorance.
Last edited on Wed Feb 18th, 2009 03:35 am by JT
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Anubis
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 05:45 am |
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| The officer was wrong about Texas, too. He implied open carry was practiced in Texas, which is one of the minority of states prohibiting open carry.
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JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 129 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 01:30 pm |
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Anubis wrote: The officer was wrong about Texas, too. He implied open carry was practiced in Texas, which is one of the minority of states prohibiting open carry.
That's true but I wouldn't expect a Mississippi LEO to know Texas law. He showed common sense by recognizing that a holstered firearm in plain view is open carry. MS law as written and interpreted defies common sense though. One simple phrase, "concealed in whole or in part" is at the root of most the ignorance since concealed in part isn't defined. There are other problems with the law but this seems to be the big confusion factor.
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Anubis
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 05:11 pm |
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Before a recent improvement to Ohio law, CCers there had to have the pistol in plain sight when in a vehicle. I thought then that a transparent holster made of lexan instead of kydex would be the way to comply. Sounds like that idea might work in Mississippi too. 
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JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 129 |
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 12:50 pm |
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Anubis wrote: Before a recent improvement to Ohio law, CCers there had to have the pistol in plain sight when in a vehicle. I thought then that a transparent holster made of lexan instead of kydex would be the way to comply. Sounds like that idea might work in Mississippi too.
A transparent holster has been mentioned as a possible solution before but really the law needs to be corrected. Is there anyone that actually makes a transparent holster?
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1911Hammer
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:29 pm |
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According to the Yazoo County Sherrif, you can carry your weapon any way you want to in your vehicle. It can be concealed in a glove box, laying on the seat, concealed in your jacket, in a holster on your hip in plain view, whatever you want. AND, you do not have to have a concealed weapons permit to do it, either. Only when you exit the vehicle do you have to have a permit to carry it on your person. The Moss Point guys were wrong on several aspects.
And, as MS law says a concealed weapon is any weapon that is concealed in whole or in part, any weapon is concealed in part at all times. If it is in your hand, it is partially concealed, if it is in a holster on your hip, it is partially concealed. IF it is laying on your dashboard, it is partially concealed since one side of it can't be seen. I would consult with your local chief law dog and/or the MS attorney general office.
MS CODE
SEC. 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows:
(a) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both, in the discretion of the court, for the first conviction under this section.
(b) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), and imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty (30) days nor more than six (6) months, for the second conviction under this section.
(c) By imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years, for the third or more convictions under this section.
(d) By imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years for any person previously convicted of any felony who is convicted under this section.
(2) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person over the age of eighteen (18) years to carry a firearm or deadly weapon concealed in whole or in part within the confines of his own home or his place of business, or any real property associated with his home or business or within any motor vehicle.
Last edited on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:39 pm by 1911Hammer
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:37 pm |
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1911 Hammer,
Forget the Attorney General's office, either they are dumb as a stump or think WE are as dumb as stumps.
EVERY time I ask them just what right to bear arms is the state constitution referring to, they go silent. When I ask "how do I bear arms as guaranteed in the state constitution without being arrested for CCW," the answer always is "get a permit."
Free men need no permit to exercise what's clearly defined as a right.
Good luck.
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Mississippian
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 01:07 am |
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Was stopped on 02/12/2009 by MPPD 139 gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun.
Even though I am going to obtain a permit before I OC in MS, I will be OCing in Moss Point, I will show them my permit if asked, but as for why I carry? None of their business, but I will say for self defense. Take my gun? Not happening! I will dis-arm myself if I must and put the weapon in my vehicle then lock vehicle behind me. Yes I know, I will most likely be arrested, but if that's what it takes, so be it.
Mark, I know you don't agree regarding the permit for OC, but I want to take this one step at a time.
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 01:22 am |
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That approach shouldn't be necessary, especially if "someone" were to organize likeminded persons into financing a fund to provide a truly gun-oriented attorney to deal with this. It really wouldn't take that many persons to fund it, either.
Unlike the NRA and it's gilded palace and all the overpaid staff, this venture would actually be on the front lines, truly fighting for 2nd amendment rights.
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Mississippian
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 01:27 am |
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That approach shouldn't be necessary
I know, I should've 'counted to ten' before I posted that, but it really ticks me off when people who work for me (or any taxpayer) violates my (or others) rights.
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 02:01 am |
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LOL, if that's the case, you need to come walk a few miles with me, both in MS and LA.
You'd be one pissed off rednek.
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1911Hammer
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 04:08 pm |
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ECALEXANDER wrote:
He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas"
First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon.
So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
Since MS has no law saying open carry is illegal, then if your gun "aint concealed", what is the problem? Since, according to MS that concealed in part is concealed, then you were carrying concealed, which you have a permit for. So, you were legal either way. If it is concealed, permit has you covered. If it was not concealed, still covered since MS law does not say OC is illegal.
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Mississippian
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 04:54 am |
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LOL, if that's the case, you need to come walk a few miles with me, both in MS and LA.
You'd be one pissed off rednek.
I'm sure we'll meet sooner or later, and I may take you up on that.
I wanted to make it to Hammond for ya'lls OC meet-up, but of all the darn days of the week to work, I was gone on a load that day ...Was off the rest of the week.
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whoflungdo
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 25 |
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Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 07:45 pm |
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1911Hammer wrote: ECALEXANDER wrote:
He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas"
First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon.
So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
Since MS has no law saying open carry is illegal, then if your gun "aint concealed", what is the problem? Since, according to MS that concealed in part is concealed, then you were carrying concealed, which you have a permit for. So, you were legal either way. If it is concealed, permit has you covered. If it was not concealed, still covered since MS law does not say OC is illegal.
Actually, there is no permit required to conceal in whole or in part in any motor vehicle.
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1911Hammer
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Feb 28th, 2009 01:18 am |
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whoflungdo wrote: 1911Hammer wrote: ECALEXANDER wrote:
He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas"
First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon.
So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
Since MS has no law saying open carry is illegal, then if your gun "aint concealed", what is the problem? Since, according to MS that concealed in part is concealed, then you were carrying concealed, which you have a permit for. So, you were legal either way. If it is concealed, permit has you covered. If it was not concealed, still covered since MS law does not say OC is illegal.
Actually, there is no permit required to conceal in whole or in part in any motor vehicle.
Very true, but the cop asked him to step out. By normal citizens reasoning, he still would not need a permit, since he was in his car and the cop asked him to step out. But we all know the laws and rules get twisted to accomodate the cops at times.
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whoflungdo
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 25 |
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Posted: Sat Feb 28th, 2009 10:08 pm |
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1911Hammer wrote:
Very true, but the cop asked him to step out. By normal citizens reasoning, he still would not need a permit, since he was in his car and the cop asked him to step out. But we all know the laws and rules get twisted to accomodate the cops at times.
Maybe in some jurisdictions. I'm going through the academy now for a SO in MS. This exact scenario came up in class. The citizen cannot be arrested or charged with carrying a concealed firearm, if the he/she is in their vehicle with a firearm and have been instructed by a LEO to exit the vehicle wheter they have a permit or not.
Apparently this has been an issue in the past. They addressed it directly and before the question was asked. I don't know all the details of the OP, but if what is reported here is true, the Moss Point officer didn't know this particular law or didn't care that they were enforcing it improperly.
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1911Hammer
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 02:27 am |
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whoflungdo wrote: the Moss Point officer didn't know this particular law or didn't care that they were enforcing it improperly.
This is the problem with a lot of leo's. They don't know the laws so they cant enforce them correctly. And some know the law, but have the sense that they are the law and do as they please.
As a side note, since you are going through the academy, I hope you turn out to be a better leo than most of the others I know.
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Mississippian
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 02:28 pm |
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ECALEXANDER wrote: Was stopped on **/**/2009 by **** *** gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun.
He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas"
First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon.
So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed"
Didn't get a chance to ask them what law was I breaking by openly carrying with a valid permit, after my serial numbers came back the original officer handed me my pistol and said GO! So I went!
Are you going to seek damages? I would like to ask you a couple questions, but depending on your answers, it may damage your case.
And no, I am not going to lecture you, I am just trying to get a handle on "What, When, Where, Why, and How."
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