| Author | Post |
|---|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 08:12 pm |
|
I'm not going to name names here because I consider myself a friend of the LEO I talk to, and I completly understand his position, respect it, and would probably do the same. As he says "I'm going to bed tonight in my own home"
However, as he explained when you get pulled in a traffic stop, first thing that comes up is "FIREARMS PERMIT HOLDER" or something like that.
First order of buisness is "Step out of the car"
As he said, he doesn't care where it is, why you have it, ect. ect. He's looking out after his own safety. Outa the car and then do you have it on you? No, we're good, Yes, He'll disarm then continue with the traffic stop. He said he's actually had people who resisted on the hood pat down to make sure he's not going to get shot.
As he says he's not the only one who does this in traffic stops...
Legally owning a firearms permit for carrying in MS makes police more paranoid about us?
I didn't want to argue with him, cause he's a good guy and I understand him.
It just frustraits the hell out of me that even though I'm not a bad guy, having this (when I get it) pop up on a traffic stop gets me on the recieving end of police suspicion.
As I said before I don't hold it against him because I understand, but it just gets to me that since I want to get a permit if I get pulled over this is what I'd have to look forward to.
Gun owners get screwed in the end.
|
mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 01:22 am |
|
SOLUTION: don't get a permit.
|
TheMrMitch
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 02:56 am |
|
Which is the worst scenerio: NOT knowing if someone is armed? Knowing someone is armed?
I'd prefer to know and relax with those people.
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 05:14 am |
|
mark edward marchiafava wrote: SOLUTION: don't get a permit.
Heh, I don't think it's much of a solution, because I wouldn't be able to carry it unless I went to La or Al =/ no OC in MS without a permission slip
|
Jared
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 01:19 pm |
|
Your friend is a little too jumpy to be an LEO, he should look for another line of work.
Even if he disarmed him, what about a second gun?
Officer safety does not cover doing something like this. You need to have RAS that the person is armed AND dangerous. Having a carry permit is not RAS that someone is dangerous.
I've pulled people over in Arizona with pistols on their dashboard and loaded NFA firearms and loaded rifles in their vehicles. I never had to nor have I felt the need to do what your friend does.
Tell him the same arguement can be used for blacks. Minorities make up most of the violent crime statistics in the United States according to the National Institute of Justice. Should he order all black people out of the car.... then again, it is the deep south so I'm sure behavior like that would probably fly.
Jumpy LEO's like him are the best reason that states need to repeal the must notify laws as well as the carry license database.
We all want to sleep in our own beds at night, does that mean we shoot first and ask questions later???
This same type of unacceptable behavior is the same mentality where some LEO's think they can disarm, ID and harrass open carriers.... just to be safe.... just to go home.
Last edited on Sun Jun 14th, 2009 01:20 pm by Jared
|
Mississippian
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 04:57 pm |
|
He'll disarm then continue with the traffic stop.
Your friend won't be doing that for long, MS Firearms Permit holders are some of the most law abiding citizens there are and these people won't stand for being harrassed and unreasonably searched.
Your friend did not get drafted, he volunteered for that job. If he can't perform his job within the boundries of the law, he needs to find another job as he is not above the law.
|
smttysmth02gt
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun May 10th, 2009 |
| Location: | Eight Mile, USA |
| Posts: | 84 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 05:10 pm |
|
Personally, I am NOT ok with them disarming me. Chances are if A.) the person is a permit holder or B.) tells the officer they are armed, then common sense says this person means the officer no harm. I would be a bit uncomfortable with an officer so jumpy and paranoid disarming me for HIS safety. What about MINE?
|
Johnny_B
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 07:49 pm |
|
I agree with you guys, didn't mean for this to turn into a cops are paranoid fight on the forums, their job comes with a certain ammount of paranoia needed, you can't trust everyone, you don't know who they are.
The cop I am talking about is a good guy, he's not all gung ho cops know everything and your wrong, not at all, I didn't mean to imply that. Please don't think that, he really is a good guy, I've just talked to him about some hypotheticals and I understand where he is coming from.
But as you all have states "Officer safety" takes precident over YOUR safety, and it's not just him, there are plenty of them I'm sure across the U.S
And it is in the deep south but the whole "Blacks out of the car" thing DOES NOT FLY. Mississippi is a little behind the times yeah, but there aren't lynch mobs roaming the street and the KKK everywhere, the minority out of the car for my safety is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
And we do wear shoes 
|
Jared
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 12:59 pm |
|
Sorry, but your friend is part of the problem. Being a "good guy" is irrelevant.
He still needs RAS to do such a thing. Good thing he never worked for the Border Patrol. I would hate to think what he would do if he were to walk up on a group of 6 or more people all alone with no back up for over 20 miles and only 2 sets of cuffs. I hope he wouldn't shoot them and ask questions later for.... officer safety.
People like him are why many people tow the hard libertarian line. For example, in Mississippi, you do not need a license to carry in a car. When asked if someone had a pistol they can simply remain silent and not consent to any search while having a recorder going in the back seat. People like him reinforce this behavior.
Cops like this are usually the first ones to throw a fit when pulled over by another LEO for a legitimate reason.
|
TheGreatGonzo
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 24th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 8 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 05:51 pm |
|
I'm a LEO in MS. Granted, I'm no longer a patrol officer so I'm not out making traffic stops anymore, but it never made me paranoid in any way. If, in my current position, I find myself dealing with somebody that has a permit, it would not change how I interact with them (other than the possibility of chatting about guns and goodies). I try to treat everyone I meet with courtesy and respect, but I always have a plan in case things go badly.
Gonzo
|
Mississippian
Regular Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 06:01 pm |
|
Welcome to the forum, IMO, we need more law enforcement officers participating on here.
|
TheGreatGonzo
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 24th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 8 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 06:11 pm |
|
Mississippian wrote: Welcome to the forum, IMO, we need more law enforcement officers participating on here.
Thank you. Glad to be here.
|
bigz
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 20th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 67 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 07:33 pm |
|
TheGreatGonzo wrote: I'm a LEO in MS. Granted, I'm no longer a patrol officer so I'm not out making traffic stops anymore, but it never made me paranoid in any way. If, in my current position, I find myself dealing with somebody that has a permit, it would not change how I interact with them (other than the possibility of chatting about guns and goodies). I try to treat everyone I meet with courtesy and respect, but I always have a plan in case things go badly.
Gonzo
welcome to ocdo...
as a leo what is your opinion on a citizen carrying openly? does the officers you work with and associate with know the laws and agree with us open carrying or do they seem to lean toward the anti side of the 2A.
Last edited on Thu Jul 30th, 2009 07:39 pm by bigz
|
HankT
State Researcher
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 07:45 pm |
|
Johnny_B wrote: I'm not going to name names here because I consider myself a friend of the LEO I talk to, and I completly understand his position, respect it, and would probably do the same.
...
I didn't want to argue with him, cause he's a good guy and I understand him.
...
As I said before I don't hold it against him because I understand, but it just gets to me that since I want to get a permit if I get pulled over this is what I'd have to look forward to....
I can certainly understand your not wanting to argue with him.
But I don't understand why you wouldn't hold his behavior against him.
He's obviously doing it wrong. He's being over-zealous.
|
TheGreatGonzo
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 24th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 8 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 08:23 pm |
|
bigz wrote: TheGreatGonzo wrote: I'm a LEO in MS. Granted, I'm no longer a patrol officer so I'm not out making traffic stops anymore, but it never made me paranoid in any way. If, in my current position, I find myself dealing with somebody that has a permit, it would not change how I interact with them (other than the possibility of chatting about guns and goodies). I try to treat everyone I meet with courtesy and respect, but I always have a plan in case things go badly.
Gonzo
welcome to ocdo...
as a leo what is your opinion on a citizen carrying openly? does the officers you work with and associate with know the laws and agree with us open carrying or do they seem to lean toward the anti side of the 2A.
Thanks. Most of the folks I work with fall into one of 2 categories...supportive or indifferent. I know very few TRULY "anti" LEO's down here. Quite a few are indefferent. They fall along the lines of, "If it is legal, I could care less one way or the other.". Most I know personally are very supportive.
As for me, I'm fine with CC or OC by law abiding citizens. I see merits to both. Open carry (from a LEO point of view) is nice because I can see the gun and I know very quickly if you intend to take it out of the holster. If I'm dealing with you in an official capacity and you are carrying concealed (without my knowledge), what I don't know can't factor into how I deal with you. On other hand, if you suddenly sweep your cover garment back to get something out of your pocket and it appears to me that you are attempting to draw a here-to-fore unseen firearm, then I'm going to react a little differently. Again, just my personal opinion. Either way, as long as you are legally in possession and don't suddenly decide to break leather, it won't much affect how I intereact with you one way or the other. One difference might be in the level of "socializing" I do with you. If you OC, then it would seem pretty obvious to me that you are a "gun person" with some shared interest. I might want to chat about what you are carrying...what ammo you use...etc. Personally, I CC off duty. I make that choice for tactical reasons. No, I can't quote any statistics (the invariable next question), but I know what I look for as a tactical advantage in a fight and I assume a bad guy will be looking for the same things. I do sometimes OC while engaged in outdoor activities, horeseback riding, etc.
Gonzo
|
zigziggityzoo
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Fri Jul 31st, 2009 12:17 pm |
|
Johnny_B wrote:
I'm not going to name names here because I consider myself a friend of the LEO I talk to, and I completly understand his position, respect it, and would probably do the same. As he says "I'm going to bed tonight in my own home"
However, as he explained when you get pulled in a traffic stop, first thing that comes up is "FIREARMS PERMIT HOLDER" or something like that.
First order of buisness is "Step out of the car"
As he said, he doesn't care where it is, why you have it, ect. ect. He's looking out after his own safety. Outa the car and then do you have it on you? No, we're good, Yes, He'll disarm then continue with the traffic stop. He said he's actually had people who resisted on the hood pat down to make sure he's not going to get shot.
As he says he's not the only one who does this in traffic stops...
Legally owning a firearms permit for carrying in MS makes police more paranoid about us?
I didn't want to argue with him, cause he's a good guy and I understand him.
It just frustraits the hell out of me that even though I'm not a bad guy, having this (when I get it) pop up on a traffic stop gets me on the recieving end of police suspicion.
As I said before I don't hold it against him because I understand, but it just gets to me that since I want to get a permit if I get pulled over this is what I'd have to look forward to.
Gun owners get screwed in the end.
This is called an unreasonable search and seizure, is in direct opposition to the Bill of Rights to the Constitution of the United States, and the officer is committing a federal felony every time he does this.
The Courts agree that the "mere presense" of a firearm alone is not Reasonable Suspicion (Terry v. Ohio). The officer has to have something else to Terry Pat and disarm.Last edited on Fri Jul 31st, 2009 12:19 pm by zigziggityzoo
|
Current time is 12:45 pm | |
|
