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IDAHO COWBOY
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 07:43 pm |
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http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/104353-smithwesson-mp-pistols-no-longer-authorized-for-lasd-use
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
April 30, 2009
LASD BULLETIN EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY
Subject: PLEASE BRIEF YOUR PERSONNEL - Officer Safety - M&P pistols no longer authorized
Importance: High
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IDAHO COWBOY
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 30th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 194 |
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 07:44 pm |
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| Quality of Smith & Wesson 9mm M&P pistols has become a concern because of a recent barrel failure on an in-service deputy’s pistol, coupled with additional extraction jams on deputy recruit pistols (46% of recruit class experiencing some degree of malfunctions – mostly phase-2 jam failures to extract spent casings).
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 06:33 am |
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They should do away with the 9mm cartridge as far as Law Enforcement use anyways. Maybe this is their way of starting in that direction. None of the Law Enforcement agencies (to my knowledge) allow 9mm handguns anymore. They've told their officers/deputies/troopers that it's not quite as effective as other calibers and would rather they carry something a little more reliable than the 9mm.
It's not a bad caliber, don't get me wrong, it just isn't something I'd recommend for a cop who's putting his life and well-being in the hands of such an untrusted caliber!!
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FMCDH
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 07:02 am |
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Sad, this is my carry pistol of choice although mine is the 9L, I also carry the 9c. After about 600+ rounds each, I have had no issues what-so-ever with either.
I hope S&W addresses this pronto and saves its good name and the great reputation this pistol series has had up until now. 
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 07:07 am |
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Agreed. I carry a M&P .45 but I hope it all gets resolved soon!!
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MT GUNNY
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 11:38 pm |
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Here is the Text :
Quality of Smith & Wesson 9mm M&P pistols has become a concern because of a recent barrel failure on an in-service deputy’s pistol, coupled with additional extraction jams on deputy recruit pistols (46% of recruit class experiencing some degree of malfunctions – mostly phase-2 jam failures to extract spent casings).
1. At least One of every Model of Every Firearm Manufacture has had a Barrel / Chamber Failure....
2. During Classes People are still Learning!!
Last edited on Sat May 30th, 2009 11:41 pm by MT GUNNY
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MT GUNNY
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 11:46 pm |
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That ONE officer Was Prolly running Magtech Ammo Well Known for sometimes being to Hot! That ONE Officer Prolly hasnt Cleaned the Barrel after al those Lead Rounds he saves so much Money on.
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 02:05 am |
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While I've heard of initial problems with the M&P line, I wonder if some of those failure to ejects are more of a people problem than a gun problem.
The Kaboom I don't know about.
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FMCDH
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 02:12 am |
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I have heard that severely limp wristing the 9mm will sometimes result in a FTEs, but from I understand, that's a common occurrence when limp wristing a lot of 9mm pistols.
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JBinMontana
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 02:53 am |
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40s-and-wfan wrote: They should do away with the 9mm cartridge as far as Law Enforcement use anyways. Maybe this is their way of starting in that direction. None of the Law Enforcement agencies (to my knowledge) allow 9mm handguns anymore. They've told their officers/deputies/troopers that it's not quite as effective as other calibers and would rather they carry something a little more reliable than the 9mm.
It's not a bad caliber, don't get me wrong, it just isn't something I'd recommend for a cop who's putting his life and well-being in the hands of such an untrusted caliber!!
Huntsville, Alabama still carries the 9mm cartridge as a duty cartridge, as they are issued the Berretta 92SF as their primary duty weapon.
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 06:02 am |
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What I meant by that was that none of the Law Enforcement Agencies around here allow it!! Everyone carries either .357 SIG, 40 S&W, or .45 ACP with maybe a slight smattering of 10mm here and there. The 9mm is nonexistent in this area as far as being allowed by Law Enforcement!
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DJ_Amish
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 06:08 am |
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| When i was a cop all I carried was a 9mm. Most of the other guys carried .45 or 40's. I still prefer my 9mm and I carry M&P 9mm today.
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 06:14 am |
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I don't have anything against the 9mm. As a matter of fact, I want to buy one. You just won't find me carrying one for personal protection. I personally don't trust it. If you do then that's great, I just don't!! EVERYONE I hang out with carries a .45! I hang out with MT GUNNY, JB_inMontana, Captain Crunch (from another forum) and Bald Eagle and all of us carry the same caliber. All except for Captain Crunch are on this forum, and all of them can be trusted to the fullest extent in any kind of a hairy situation.
Again, nothing against the 9mm, I just don't trust it!!
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JBinMontana
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 04:50 pm |
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 06:40 pm |
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JBinMontana wrote:
It's so funny that people still decry the 9mm like that. It's so...80's.
I don't see much similar criticism of the .38 Spcl. or .380 yet, even though they are not as powerful as the 9mm, they are probably more popular for carry. I'd say if one is going to restrict themselves to FMJ then the .45 is a better choice than 9mm. Since the .40 S&W is a hot round, it probably wouldn't be much better than the 9mm, but that's just speculation.
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 07:26 pm |
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The 38-Special is a lot more powerful than the 9mm. Just look at it. They're the same diameter of bullet, but the 38 can handle a much heavier bullet and a lot more powder, therefore making it more of a devastating round than the 9mm.
Cops used to carry the 38-Special but went to the 9mm because it was something new and they figured they needed something that held more rounds because cops have a tenancy to 'spray and pray' when it comes to gunfights and they couldn't reload their revolvers fast enough!!
I'd take a 38 over a 9mm any day of the week. Matter of fact, I used to carry one too for backup. You still won't get me to trust the 9mm for defense. I'd put any 38 up against the 9mm cartridge any day for comparison of velocity and ballistics. I guarantee you it'll win!!
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DJ_Amish
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 07:33 pm |
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| With your type of thinking I would not want you as a partner. I am not saying one round is better than the next. But I have fired many different guns wit hmany different rounds and I prefer the 9mm. I will protect me, my family, other officers, etc just the same as any other round. I have been involved in many test with many rounds of different grains and ammo and the 9mm has been in the top of all. Pppl that say the 9mm is weak and wont even think of owning one, you are just as bad as ppl who think guns are evil.
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ghostrider
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 08:32 pm |
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40s-and-wfan wrote: The 38-Special is a lot more powerful than the 9mm. Just look at it. They're the same diameter of bullet, but the 38 can handle a much heavier bullet and a lot more powder, therefore making it more of a devastating round than the 9mm.
Cops used to carry the 38-Special but went to the 9mm because it was something new and they figured they needed something that held more rounds because cops have a tenancy to 'spray and pray' when it comes to gunfights and they couldn't reload their revolvers fast enough!!
I'd take a 38 over a 9mm any day of the week. Matter of fact, I used to carry one too for backup. You still won't get me to trust the 9mm for defense. I'd put any 38 up against the 9mm cartridge any day for comparison of velocity and ballistics. I guarantee you it'll win!!
Don't know where your getting your info from, but 9mm is a higher pressure round. The greater speed it has transfers to greater kinetic energy.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
But hey, if you've got some ballistic charts of a good SD round for .38 Spcl that out perform the 9mm, Then please share. I might be interested in that ammo, but not sure the gun would handle it.
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JBinMontana
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 08:43 pm |
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DJ_Amish wrote: With your type of thinking I would not want you as a partner. I am not saying one round is better than the next. But I have fired many different guns wit hmany different rounds and I prefer the 9mm. I will protect me, my family, other officers, etc just the same as any other round. I have been involved in many test with many rounds of different grains and ammo and the 9mm has been in the top of all. Pppl that say the 9mm is weak and wont even think of owning one, you are just as bad as ppl who think guns are evil.
Some of us are in the know because of first hand experience with the 9mm cartidge as a service round. I have also carried the .40 S&W now called .40 cal on duty thank you very much.... I now by choice and experience carry the .45 ACP as do most LEO's that I know.
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40s-and-wfan
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun May 31st, 2009 09:31 pm |
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ghostrider wrote:Don't know where your getting your info from, but 9mm is a higher pressure round. The greater speed it has transfers to greater kinetic energy.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
But hey, if you've got some ballistic charts of a good SD round for .38 Spcl that out perform the 9mm, Then please share. I might be interested in that ammo, but not sure the gun would handle it.
Learn to read and I guarantee you'll find some of the same results I have found. Either that or try try reloading every once in a while! Higher pressure or not, a larger bullet has an advantage in what's called 'Sectional Density' and will out-penetrate a smaller bullet. Keep in mind how a .22LR performs. It can go about 1450FPS with a 40-grain bullet. Now look at a .45ACP, a 230-grain bullet going about 950FPS will out-penetrate with no problem. The same thing goes for a 125-grain bullet in a 9mm and a 140-158-grain bullet in a .38SP, it's just common sense!!
Tell you what, maybe this is easier to comprehend: A 125-grain bullet out of a 9mm will not out-penetrate a 158-grain bullet out of a .357, or a 230-grain bullet from a .45ACP, or a 220-grain bullet from a .41Mag. It's easy to tell what has the advantage as far as performance!!
Like I said, it's called 'Sectional Density' and it's far superior in the larger calibers than it is in a smaller caliber!! Kinda' makes sense, doesn't it!!
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