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theotherT-Man
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 12th, 2007 07:49 pm |
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| Just wanted to introduce myself. I am new to the state, moved up here a month ago from Utah. My Utah CWP is in process, and I am shopping for a new carry gun. It's good to find such a great group of people with similar interests and concerns about our rights.
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IdahoCorsair
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sun Aug 27th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 316 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Oct 14th, 2007 02:52 am |
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Welcome aboard Tman. I lived in Bozeman for 4+ years, so I know that area well. Sadly it's becoming such a liberal hippie mecca it's sickening.  Oh, well, there're still a lot of good people up there. See you around!
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VAopencarry
Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 05:02 am |
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Welcome to OCDO.
I'd welcome you to Montana also but I am not a Montanan, yet!
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stxrebel
Member
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Posted: Mon Jan 7th, 2008 08:49 pm |
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| I've been here for a year 1/2 and I'd like to welcome you to the state, where about are you
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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Welcome to Montana T-Man. I have a belgrade address myself although my house is out of town and I spend most of my time in Bozeman. Although there is a Californication going on here there are still a lot of Montanans in both body and spirit around to keep things in line.
I myself was an Army Brat and didn't move here until 1978 after my father retired from the Army. As you might imagine I've lived in many parts of the USA and overseas but have found nowhere I'd rather live than right here. Since I've lived in Montana off and on for the better part of 30 years I feel I can claim to be a Montanan in both body and spirit.
I'm new here at opencarry, this being my first post.
I don't actually make a habit of open carry in town but do often outside of town. No particular reason really. I hadn't thought about it much. I have a CWP and carry concealed often but not always because I work at the University and occasionally partake of adult beverages when out on the town.
I remember when I first moved to Montana and had a Ruger Single Six I always carried when hiking or dirt bike riding. When hiking I'd sometimes come out on a road and hitch-hike back to town rather than walk the return trip. My hiking partner and I would be strolling down some back highway carrying rifles with sidearms on our hips with thumbs out looking for a ride. I don't remember ever waiting more than 5 vehicles for a ride. Almost always a pick-up truck for some odd reason, usually a guy drinkin' a beer while he drove. Of course open-container was legal as well as open-carry at the time. The open-container went by the wayside not long ago, lets hope open-carry never does!
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airborn4x4
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 09:33 pm |
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I just moved to Bozeman in December. I grew up in New Jersey, and spent the past three years in a state on the Pacific coast which I will not mention. Growing up in NJ, and then moving to the next restrictive state, carrying was never an option for me. Now that I am in the glorious state of Montana, my head is still spinning with the rights we are allowed to excersize here. I need to wait until June to get my CWP (6 month residency required), but could not find anything in the Montana laws that said anything about open carry. What are the laws governing OC? I find it hard to believe that we are simply allowed to OC, just for being in the state. I am hoping that it is just my opressed upbringing that is giving me a hard time accepting these freedoms.
I would really appreciate it if someone could, in plain english, explain the Montana gun laws.
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:01 pm |
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Welcome Airborn4X4!
In reply, using "plain english" and "laws" in relationship to each other is a bit unrealistic. However, I shall try to do my best. Outside of "incorporated areas" i.e. cities, towns, and such open carry and indeed concealed carry are ok with no permit whatsoever. Information about this can be found in the MCA (Montana Code Annotated) The code pertaining to concealed carry can be found beginning here:
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-315.htm (Click the "Next Section" links near the top of the page to read all relevant code)
Note exception (i) and (j) here: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-317.htm
There are no laws about open carry outside incorporated areas that I can find which I interpret as there is no law against it. Certainly it is common.
Incorporated areas as far as I know can enact ordinances restricting carry of firearms concealed or not in city owned property and buildings. Specifically, Bozeman restricts the carry of weapons concealed or not in Bozeman government buildings and on Bozeman government grounds and facilities including parks. Bozeman ordinances can be found here:
http://www.bozeman.net/police/other_law_enforcement_links.aspx
Under the heading "Common Bozeman City Ordinances" in the General link at the bottom you can find the relevant ordinances.
I have a call in to the Bozeman Police Department to ask their take on Open Carry. I'll post again when my call has been returned.
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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I received a return call from a Bozeman City Police officer. She stated specifically there was no law or ordinance she was aware of that prohibited the open carry of a firearm in the city limits. She didn't even seem aware carry in public parks was prohibited although she did know about the government buildings and alcohol serving establishments prohibitions.
So, carry on!
P.S. to Airborn4X4,
I lived in Willingboro N.J. while my father was stationed at Fort Dix. I would not willingly go back.
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airborn4x4
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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Thanks phoglund. I am looking forward to your response from the Bozeman PD.
I've read up on the concealed carry portion of the law, and feel I have a pretty good handle on it. It is the open carry that I can't find anything in writing. I guess if it isn't listed as "illegal", it must be legal (excluding govt buildings). Is that right?
BTW, at what point is it considered "incorporated"? Should I look for city limit signs? For instance, how far down 19th or Main/Huffine do you have to go to get officially out of Bozeman? And if driving up Jackrabbit from 4corners, when is it considered Belgrade?
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airborn4x4
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:57 pm |
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phoglund wrote:
P.S. to Airborn4X4,
I lived in Willingboro N.J. while my father was stationed at Fort Dix. I would not willingly go back.
Holy cow!! My Mom works at the hospital on McGuire AFB. I grew up in Haddon Heights. Willingboro is right not too far away. Small world. I ran into a girl I graduated HS with in the Gift Corral on Main.
Sorry, back on topic. Perhaps once the weather warms up a bit, I'll OC so I don't risk accidentally concealing it with my jacket. To bad my job prohibits firearms.
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 12:45 am |
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I'd generally go by the "Welcome to XXX" or "Entering XXX" signs. I think the Belgrade limits begin a bit before the interstate crosses Jackrabbit, there is a sign if I'm not mistaken. North on 19th will get you out of town just past the beginning of Springhill Road I'd guess although the Welcome sign is South of the Interstate.
Carry in anywhere in your vehicle is legal anyway so just have it off your person. The particulars on the concealed carry law are interesting. Notice "concealed" means covered by your clothing. If you are carrying a bag with a handgun in it, it would not meet the test of "concealed" according to the definition. This makes purse carry legal for women. It also seems to me that carry in a pack of any kind would also not be considered concealed as long as it was not covered by your clothing.
I'll have to agree with you though. Open carry in winter around here would almost require you to have a gunbelt around the outside of your coat which while legal will make you look pretty goofy. 
Wait your 6 months and get your CWP. They are not hard to obtain. If you are ex-military bring along anything that states you were pistol qualified. If not, complete a training course as outlined in the MCA. The range out in Logan has classes fairly regularly. I happen to know a guy who is qualified to teach the necessary course who did it for me at a minimal cost. After that it's get yourself fingerprinted, fill out the paperwork and deliver it with check and a couple of pictures to the Justice Dept. off 19th. I think mine took 2 weeks to process and get back. The other nice thing about the CWP is you don't have to go through a NICS check when purchasing if you show your card. Makes the gun shop guys happy too!
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BobR
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 12th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 81 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 02:45 am |
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If you want the straight skinny on Montana gun laws or any other questions, send an email to the attorney general's office. They are very nice and will email you back.
That is how I found out that concealed carry is prohibited anywhere that alcohol is served, even the non-bar portion of a restaurant. But, open carry is not prohibited where alcohol is served, as long as no one that works there asks you to leave.
bob
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 04:27 pm |
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That is an interesting bit of information BobR. Sounds like from my conversation with the Bozeman Police officer the Attorney General's office needs to get that information to the law enforcement community.
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BobR
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 12th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 81 |
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 01:43 am |
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This is the series of emails between me and the atty generals office.
Hi all,
I am a Montana resident and am not very happy about the carrying concealed where alcohol is served prohibition. I don't drink, but I do eat, and many restaurants serve alcohol. I cannot legally carry concealed into those places. So, I sent this off to the Attorney General's office.
Hello,
I understand the law as it applies to concealed carry of a firearm where alcohol is served.
45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
(2) It is not a defense that the person had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon. A person convicted of the offense shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months or fined an amount not to exceed $500, or both.
That is pretty straight forward and simple to understand.
My question concerns the open carry of a firearm. If I want to carry my firearm with me into a restaurant that serves alcohol can I wear it open and be in compliance with the current law? I would much rather have my pistol with me than take the chance of it being stolen while I am dining.
I have not been able to find anything that addresses this particular question.
Thank you for your time with this matter.
Bob
And within a couple of days, I received this back:
Mr. XXXX, There is nothing in Montana law that prohibits the open carry of a weapon into an establishment that serves alcohol. However, most such establishments will not permit any weapons to be brought in. They have the right to prohibit all weapons on their premises, and most do. Sheri Sprigg, Assistant Attorney General
Now I just need to find out if the restaurants I frequent will have an objection. If they do you can bet they have seen the last of me.
bob
ETA: In response to my question whether or not it had to be posted or is verbal notification was sufficient I got this reply back:
From: Sprigg, Sheri
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:31 PM
To: Contact DOJ
Subject: RE: Carrying of pistol where alcohol is served?
[size= ]
Verbal notification by an employee is sufficient. The establishments are private property, and patrons must comply with the proprietor’s request.
Sheri Sprigg, Assistant Attorney General
So, there is the answer.
bob
Hope this helps.
bob
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lucas_flesher
Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 04:36 pm |
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I am a third generation Montanan, I recomend the book titled " Gun Laws of Montana", by Gary Marbut. I refur to it frequently. A new revised edition just hit the shelves a month or so ago.
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phoglund
Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 06:38 pm |
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Thanks for the information Lucas. I just ordered my copy from the publisher. Seems like a good investment for a mere $15.95 delivered.
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gridboy
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 16th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 33 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2008 06:25 am |
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IdahoCorsair wrote: Welcome aboard Tman. I lived in Bozeman for 4+ years, so I know that area well. Sadly it's becoming such a liberal hippie mecca it's sickening. Oh, well, there're still a lot of good people up there. See you around!
You don't mean the "Community Co-op", do you? We always referred to it
as the "Commy Co-op", but we went there all the time for groceries and
deli food. From the usual crowd, it seemed like it would be an interesting
place to open carry.
gridboy
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gridboy
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 16th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 33 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2008 06:28 am |
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theotherT-Man wrote: Just wanted to introduce myself. I am new to the state, moved up here a month ago from Utah. My Utah CWP is in process, and I am shopping for a new carry gun. It's good to find such a great group of people with similar interests and concerns about our rights.
Have you found good gun range? We usually went to the outdoor range
in Three Forks. Debo's Pawn Shop around the corner from Safeway
off Main sold memberships. Never tried the indoor range at the fairgrounds.
gridboy
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leathermanwave
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Kalispell, Mt |
| Posts: | 3 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 06:06 am |
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The kalerforianites have me worried about the future of our awesome gun laws. I live about 15 miles from glacier international peace park (yes that is its full name) and thousands of city slickers have moved in over the past couple of years. In winter it is not so bad all the Kalerfornians hole up in there mansions and turn the heat up but when summer arrives the tourist come and it is terrible. I just hope the law passes allowing guns into the park.
Sorry to any Californians out there Montana's just blame you guys for the invasion of our state. If you reading this i probally don't have a problem with you moving up here.
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lucas_flesher
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 01:52 am |
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MT sucks!! Its too cold in the winter and they are getting longer.
The Grizzly bears are everywhere eating up all the hunters and hikers!!
Now the wolf packs are spreading throught the state.
When you go hunting you run into everybody and there dog!
Pretty soon there wont be any land to hunt on cuz, National forest keeps being
sold to Filthy rich out of staters.
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