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Jeffrey
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 04:45 pm |
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| Does anyone have available to them the 'law' allowing open carry?
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Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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Laws do not "allow", they prohibit.
I'm not familiar with Nebraska laws but what you'll want to look for is laws prohibiting OC.
PS: Welcome! 
Last edited on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 05:06 pm by Pa. Patriot
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Jeffrey
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 05:12 pm |
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| My BAD. You are correct.
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Dutch Uncle
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 05:24 pm |
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| I don't know about the Nebraska Constitution, but Virginia's Art. 1, sec 13 supports the "right of the people to keep and BEAR arms" so I take that to be legal justification for the practice.
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Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 05:32 pm |
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Dutch Uncle wrote: I don't know about the Nebraska Constitution, but Virginia's Art. 1, sec 13 supports the "right of the people to keep and BEAR arms" so I take that to be legal justification for the practice.
Just for clarity lets take it further. "rights" and "laws" are two seperate things.
If there is no law prohiting than it is de facto legal. Having the "right" prevent laws from being enacted against that right, now and in the future.
IOW: You will not find laws prohibiting OC in VA code because of the right enumerated in the VA constitution. 
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captainamerica
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 06:46 pm |
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| Does Omaha allow open carry?
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Risasi
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 10:33 pm |
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Does Omaha allow open carry?
No, not without attending their course.
But according to the Nebraska State Constitution:
Article I-1 Statement of rights. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
So technically it is legal for you to carry in the city of Omaha, it is merely that they do not recognize your right to do so.
Additional to this little gem in our own constitution. In the statutes, section 28-1203; To further solidify that everyone has the right to bear arms for self defense the only firearms regulated are "machine gun, short rifle, or short shotgun". This does not mean you cannot own or transport. Like affirmative defense (sec. 28-1202) there is afforded allowances to own or transport NFA weapons.
So in conclusion to Jeffrey's original post, well there you go. It is Article I-1 that "allows" us to carry arms.
We don't need another law saying it is so, we just need enough of us in this state to start open carrying. I would love to see even 100 people open carrying in the city of Omaha, without taking their stupid course. Force the OPD to back down from this odious law...
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captainamerica
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 09:36 pm |
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I went to the Omaha City Attorney (by e-mail) and his office told me NO you cannot open carry a handgun in Omaha b/c there is NO State preemption and you WILL get arrested if you do so. He did say there was a permission slip/training that can be obtained but it sounded more like a "yeah right" kind of thing that really isn't available.
I've heard the same about Lincoln but do not know of any extensive list of cities that prohibit OC.
Until they allow out of state visitors with CCW permits to carry under reciprocal agreements I'm going to limit my visits to only when unavoidable.
Risasi wrote:
Does Omaha allow open carry?
No, not without attending their course.
But according to the Nebraska State Constitution:
Article I-1 Statement of rights. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
So technically it is legal for you to carry in the city of Omaha, it is merely that they do not recognize your right to do so.
Additional to this little gem in our own constitution. In the statutes, section 28-1203; To further solidify that everyone has the right to bear arms for self defense the only firearms regulated are "machine gun, short rifle, or short shotgun". This does not mean you cannot own or transport. Like affirmative defense (sec. 28-1202) there is afforded allowances to own or transport NFA weapons.
So in conclusion to Jeffrey's original post, well there you go. It is Article I-1 that "allows" us to carry arms.
We don't need another law saying it is so, we just need enough of us in this state to start open carrying. I would love to see even 100 people open carrying in the city of Omaha, without taking their stupid course. Force the OPD to back down from this odious law...
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Risasi
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 10:08 pm |
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Well the city attorney's office is full of it:
Article XI-5
Charter of city of 100,000; home rule charter authorized. The charter of any city having a population of more than one hundred thousand inhabitants may be adopted as the home rule charter of such city by a majority vote of the qualified electors of such city voting upon the question, and when so adopted may thereafter be changed or amended as provided in Section 4 of this article, subject to the Constitution and laws of the state.
Source: http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/LegalDocs/view.php?page=c0111005000
I'll spare you the long post:
Any city having a population of more than five thousand (5000) inhabitants ...consistent with and subject to the constitution and laws of this state...
Source: http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/LegalDocs/view.php?page=c0111002000
So there. Home rule is null and void if it overrides the constitution and laws of this state. Whomever told you that is either misinformed (most likely the case), or is our right lying to you.
It is the same scenario with the State Patrol, posting on their website that if you CCW the allowance for affirmative defense (found in statute sec. 28-1202) can no longer be used by you.
Let me make this clear; It is not legally possible for a sherrif's office, state patrol or city lawmaker to override our state constitution. To even claim such a thing should lead to an immediate dismissal from their position. They are unqualified to hold such a position of authority if they themselves do not know the law. No?
----
Now the reality of the situation is that those in power are riding roughshod all over our state constitution. If we the people would stand up and say "enough", well it would be just like Vermont or New Hampshire for open carry.
I wish Tim Tyrrell would chime in on a couple of these threads here. It might clear up a lot of "gray area".
[EDIT TO ADD:] I also forgot to mention. It is the "Safety and Health Council", off of 120th and L St that administers the gun safety course, which will then let you open carry a loaded concealable firearm in the city of Omaha. Last I checked it was about $100 for an 8 hour course. I just got done with the CCW course. Frankly I am considering simply open carrying in Nebraska, and getting the Utah permit, as I am also certified for it.
I reallydon't know how the waters became so muddy.
I used to frequently carry in the city of Omaha, and had even used "affirmative defense" with police officers, for a concealed handgun when I had been stopped by a cruiser in Omaha, on 72nd and Maple (yeah, that was a wild night!). Of course that was about 10 years ago, and I wouldn't dream of carrying now unless I felt very threatened and thought it was prudent to do so.
Last edited on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 10:16 pm by Risasi
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captainamerica
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 06:53 pm |
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To me things got muddy around the USA from 1980 to present day, piece by piece, day by day, a little here and a little there. And Omaha is no different than all of the other Constitution violators in this country. They simply steamroll over the average joe citizen using their large bankroll (tax payers $) and legal staffs and virtually no one holds them accountable.
Unless a state passes a local preemption law the CCW and OC freedoms can and are often being lost at the local level.
America needs to wake up before it's too late.
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kingfish
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 07:59 pm |
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Ok, let's take a step back.
As we all know, we as citizens of these United States have the RIGHT (God given and inalienable) to keep (possess) and bear (carry in whatever fashion we so choose) arms (any "weapon of war".)
Thus all gun laws are unconstitutional and thus SHOULD be struck.
That being said, I for one am not going to take the chance of getting arrested.
This is from this sites main page..... http://www.opencarry.com
Nebraska
Summary
Nebraska is an open carry state with complete state preemption. However, several localities have passed and are enforcing laws that appear to be illegal under the preemption statute.
So, the answer to your question, is that there are no laws making it legal as the second poster noted....
"Laws do not "allow", they prohibit." and there are places that are prohibiting wrongly.
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captainamerica
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 10:02 pm |
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Wouldn't it be great to live in a 1776 type 2007 society? I'd love for 5000+ (for that matter 50,000+) law abiding Americans to march on Omaha in an OC fashion; fully supported by numerous lawyers, politicians, clergy, and public figures from all over the country.
But the reality is similar to our war on terrorism, i.e.; The Marines are at war......America is at the mall.
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 24th, 2007 11:24 pm |
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Sad. I was born and raised in Omaha and it is an embarrassment to me now. Surely someone is considering a suit or test case to force politicians/municipalities to obey the state preemption laws as written.
We have had our problems here in Virginia but generally we are free to exercise our 2nd Amend. rights more freely than in most states exepting Vermount and Alaska.
Yata hey
Last edited on Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 11:23 pm by Grapeshot
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TheGoodLife
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 06:10 pm |
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First, actually, Omaha is preempted by the state to allow people to have arms, it is in the very first section of the first article of our constitution. But, the supreme court also says that placing regulations that do not hinder law abiding citizen's right does not violate the constitutional right or preemtion. This is why Omaha HAS to allow open carry, but IS legally able to require a permit, provided this permit is issued on a SHALL ISSUE basis unless you are a felon or some other type of serious criminal.
Second, I have seen nothing that would prevent you from open carry in Lincoln, and from what I have heard/read they don't use other ordinances as BS ways to arrest you (specifically, they wont say that by carrying open you are disturbing the peace, and are violating the peace/common good laws, and you may thusly not carry open, but through no such regulation on firearms). So basically from what I can tell, open carry is perfectly legal and treated as such in Lincoln.
Now, I live in Omaha and am perticullarly interested in it's laws, both the BS ones and the good ones. So, I shall now ramble about that by reposting another post of mine that should easily clear the matter...
Actually, Open Carry is allowed in Omaha, via permit, and is SHALL ISSUE, not subject to discretion other than past criminal history. If you want a shorter summary, scroll down, or keep reading if you want a more detailed explaination.
That said, having had the chance to talk with a number of OPD officers, I can say that a few don't actually know the laws that they themselves are suppose to enforce. (Keep in mind that most OPD officers are actually quite nice and rather reasonable, good, hardworking people, which is common in many civil service positions, perticularly the NSP, through NE as many believe in the common good and feel good serving the state and its citizens and are true patriots through and through. Few are just there cause its a job with decent pay and/or have been jaded.) But there are still those few who don't know the law well, or, just don't care enough to be sufficiently familar with it. For instance, one who has handled quite a few of the hangun registrations at the central post's front desk has affirmed, rather heatedly, that there is no open carry in omaha. He insisted there is no program that allows such, and said that I must be confused and talking about concealed carry and to talk to the NSP.
Additionally, if you seem innocent or innocuous to an officer(s) or are rather eloquent or just good at talking to cops, they may tend to let you get away with alot of stuff you technically shouldn't. For instance, any bb guns, air rifles or paintball guns are against the code to posess off of your own premisis, since they are grouped under sec. 20-195 along with rifles, shotguns and machine guns. Yet, I have often played paintball in a local arboretum and since my neighbors' properties is quite overrun with tree residing rodents, often have hunted squirril there with a .22 CO2 pellet rifle. Whenever the police have been called out, I have had a nice chat with them and then been left alone to do my thing. Of course that could simply be termed as dicretion, but ya know, still... strange for a PD that unilaterally 'hates all firearms'.
Actually, from what I have been told, it's only the cheif, a few select officers and the mayor that are so very outspoken in this direction, and this largely has to do with the huge gun crime rate (I'm from chicago originally and even I think it is bad). However, this violence is largely cordoned off to the black neighborhoods (Omaha is actually quite possibly the most segrigated city in the entire country). I have found that just walking from my car to a pawn shop with a shotgun in a locked case in one of these neighborhood got me some PD attention. Yet, on the other side of the city, in more affluent(white) neighborhoods, I've actually been to a small gunshow on someones front lawn that lasted over two days in a row with no contact.
Anyway, the Omaha municipal codes relating to firearms, while actually fairly few in number, does have provision for open carry. Firstly, let me say that while the NE constitution's very first section of the very first article guarantees the right to arms and preemts local contradiction, it is constitutional (as shown toward the latter part of the last century by a state supreme court decision) for firearms to be regulated, provided the regulations do not 'frustrate' the right to arms. Essentially, it means that the state and municipalities may place provisions to the law that must be complied with in order to carry/posess arms, however, these cannot place unreasonable restrictions on a law abiding citizen's ability to do so.
This is the precise reason that the CCW permit in NE and even Omaha's handgun registration process is 'shall issue'. If you are a law abiding citizen, and you comply with the law or apply for a given permit/certificate (which seems a bit like paying for your own rights), then you are legal/they HAVE to issue you the permit or cert.
Now, under 20-206(a) concealed carry in Omaha is illegal unless you have a NE CCW permit, this is because Omaha (and Lincoln) cannot restrict or refuse to honor it because the state constitution preemts the whole state for firearms, and it is now allowed by state law. Under 20-206(b) open carry of a concealable firearm (any kind) is illegal in Omaha unless you are, (1) on your own property or on your employers property, (2) a peace officer, (3) are a member of the armed forces, National Guard, or ROTC and are on duty or conducting training, (4) its unloaded in a locked case or unloaded in a securely wrapped package too big to conceal, (5) if your in a car and it is unloaded in a closed/locked case, or unloaded and in a securely wrapped package thats too big to be concealed on the person, or is locked up in a cargo or luggage compartment (not the glove box as this constitutes that it is readily accesible), (6) at a shooting rang or at a fed and city licensed dealer, (7) in a firearms training course such as hunter's ed or the program to get an sec 20-207 ID card, (8) persons waivered by the city from having the above mentioned ID card, (9) persons who have said ID card. Sec. 20-207 sets forth a training program (its run by the omaha chapter of the Safety Council, just like speeding ticket waiver classes) to obtain an ID card. The class is between 8-10 hours classroom, 2 hours range instruction, and if you sucessfully complete the program they SHALL ISSUE a the ID card which is valid for three years. Sec. 20-208 provides the things that must be on the ID and requires that it be issued upon sucessful completion (ie, shall issue). So basically:
Sec. 20-206: (a) no concealed carry (b) no open carry unless exempted...
Sec. 20-207: (a) must have training program (b) fee can be charged for program but must be reasonable (c) ID card shall be issued upon sucessful competion (d) 8-10 hours classroom, 2 hours practical range time (e) city can proscribe procedures for program (f) city has complete control over program and approval of applicants (g) applicants must fill out form (h) ID good for 3 years (i) may be renewed by paying fee if you are still applicable (havn't done anything illegal since last issued) (j)ID can be revoked for doing something illegal (k) waivers for completing armed forces or nationally recognized firearms training
Sec. 20-208: ID must be issued upon sucessful completion and card will have an ID number assigned to holder, full name, birth date, sex, address, expiration, physical description of holder and color photo
So essentially, you can only open carry a handgun (or other concealable), you cannot carry a long arm, and you must have what is basically an open carry permit. Now, I see nothing that would prevent a person that is not an omaha or nebraska resident from enrolling in the program, but I would be prepared to meet some hesitance from the safety council or the city. I wouldn't anticipate such hesitance, but I would be prepared for it just in case. Additionally, 12 hours and around $105 (which again seems a bit like paying for a constitutional right to me atleast), seems like a bit of a waste of time and money to me if your not actually from Omaha/ or you don't visit Omaha extremely often. But, I suppose that is neither here nore there since it would be you, not I, who would be making that judgement call. If you are still interested in open carry in Omaha and taking the class, then you can go here for more info: http://www.safenebraska.org/safe-working/concealed-carry-handgun-training.php
The linked page is the Safety Council's page of info for their CCW and Open Carry Permit classes. Unfortunately, only NE residents may apply for a CCW permit, however, again, I see no such restiction for the Open Carry Permit program as listed. In fact, I see an annotation that specifically says that you do not have to live in Omaha, as for having to live in NE, I dont know...
Personally, I enjoy the idea that it is allowed for any law abiding citizen to carry openly provided that they have completed what basically amounts to a safety course. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, maybe a bit of a hassle kinda like registering a handgun, but still perfectly reasobable, not unlike Hunter's Ed (or Hunter's Safety or whatever other states call it). It gives me comfort to know that if/when I ever see a private citizen carrying, that I will know they have atleast had some basic safety training and are actually COMPETENT with the weapon they posess in everyone else's presence. I mean think about it, sure, YOU know that YOU personally are not an idiot with a gun, I know that I am not an idiot with a gun, but how do I know that YOU are not, or vice versa, and how does the general public or any LEO know that you or I are not? Simple, make sure that it is not legal for us to easily be an idiot with a gun... that dosn't stop good, law abiding citizens of their rights, it adds a layer of protection for good law abiding citizens from idiots who don't know what they are doing. A small layer of unbiased protection that requires a minimal amount of effort for you and I is worth the effort. I don't want someone who is incompetent or ignorant with a firearm to shoot or endanger my personal safety, my possesions or my family or even the common public, either by accident or otherwise... do you?
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jallen
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 06:09 am |
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I have more of a problem registering the firearm than I do the person. I understand the people's concern about competent carrying of handguns, although that is not what the constitution says. It doesn't grant the right to the competent, it grants it to all residents of Nebraska. I will not register my firearms with any government agency and I would discourage you from doing so either. If you have to register your firearm to be able to carry I say your constitutional rights are being infringed upon and you should challenge that law. I see the day when the government will be gathering up some if not all firearms and they will start with those which they have a voluntary record of by serial number and your picture id and address. I know some of these laws may make you "feel" safer, but they regulate only those who choose to obey the law, not the violent criminals who have chosen to break the law which is why the law was passed to begin with. I know it's confusing. Every time we let the government pass laws like those being discussed here we are giving up our freedom, and i would say our safety. Sure this "little law isn't too bad" and "that other one is inconvenient but makes me feel safer", but every one takes away a little bit of your rights and thats just not, well........right. Even if you don't carry or own a gun you should care about your liberty. I don't smoke but I disagree with the new law our state passed taking away those who choose to smoke, but thats another topic for another day.
God Bless
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jallen
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 06:10 am |
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sry about the above, I kept getting error message and didn't know it was posting. Last edited on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 06:42 am by jallen
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BobCav
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 06:51 am |
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jallen wrote: sry about the above, I kept getting error message and didn't know it was posting.
No problem, I deleted them for you! Welcome to OCDO!
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artedna
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 03:46 am |
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March 22 took a short trip to Grand Island with wife.2 grand children and oldest son-I open carryed-went to cafe at about 1.30 and then went shopping the rest of the afternoon and then drove home.Got lots of looks but was not bothered in any way. stores included walmart-sam's club-k-mart-shopko.So we had a very nice little outing!
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UTOC-45-44
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 07:01 am |
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captainamerica wrote: I went to the Omaha City Attorney (by e-mail) and his office told me NO you cannot open carry a handgun in Omaha b/c there is NO State preemption and you WILL get arrested if you do so. He did say there was a permission slip/training that can be obtained but it sounded more like a "yeah right" kind of thing that really isn't available.
I've heard the same about Lincoln but do not know of any extensive list of cities that prohibit OC.
Until they allow out of state visitors with CCW permits to carry under reciprocal agreements I'm going to limit my visits to only when unavoidable.
Risasi wrote:
Does Omaha allow open carry?
No, not without attending their course.
But according to the Nebraska State Constitution:
Article I-1 Statement of rights. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
So technically it is legal for you to carry in the city of Omaha, it is merely that they do not recognize your right to do so.
Additional to this little gem in our own constitution. In the statutes, section 28-1203; To further solidify that everyone has the right to bear arms for self defense the only firearms regulated are "machine gun, short rifle, or short shotgun". This does not mean you cannot own or transport. Like affirmative defense (sec. 28-1202) there is afforded allowances to own or transport NFA weapons.
So in conclusion to Jeffrey's original post, well there you go. It is Article I-1 that "allows" us to carry arms.
We don't need another law saying it is so, we just need enough of us in this state to start open carrying. I would love to see even 100 people open carrying in the city of Omaha, without taking their stupid course. Force the OPD to back down from this odious law...
I'm SOOOO glad I live in Utah. I don't need a "permission" to OC
TJ
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unevrno
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 06:53 pm |
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Hi Everyone!
I just ran across this site, registered, and this is my first post.
Regarding open carry in Omaha (which I am a resident of, with a Concealed Weapons Permit), I remember something, some years back, that said, to legally carry a loaded concealable weapon in your vehicle, you had to have the permit administered by the Safety and Health Council, which, at the time was $75 and requred a one day course that only they taught.
As far as I know, and I have tried to keep up on this, Omaha does not allow open carry anywhere other than your property, your place of business (if required by your employer), or as a member of the military or law enforcement on duty.
When I took the class for my CWP, I asked about that license, and was told that, even if you have a CWP, to carry a loaded, concealable weapon in plain sight in your vehicle, you still needed this other permit! Unbelievable......
"We will not falter. We will not surrender. We will prevail."
 Last edited on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 07:04 pm by unevrno
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