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Smurfologist
Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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Has anyone seen this story?!?
http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html
2nd Amendment.........Use it..........Or, lose it!!
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lockman
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Aug 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | Elgin, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 447 |
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Online
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Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2007 10:41 pm |
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mastiff69
Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2007 11:18 pm |
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Another sad day when a nut job takes the lives of Innocent people, seems to be a pattern that has been going on for the last 20-30 yrs that i can remember as i am only 45, where are the police ? seems to be only after the fact. At least he offed himself would have been better if he would have done that first
It is a sad day, again my heart goes out to victims families.
On another note does that Mall have the no firearm signs ???
NICE if someone could take a look and post the results if there are signs?
Have seen several Malls in Mich, ohio, etc i personally will go somewhere else to shop when i or my family see those signs. Will also call or leave a do not spend my dollars...
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FogRider
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 01:08 am |
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Well, that just sucks. May have to not download the TnT podcast tomorrow, I just know they will have all sorts of rational, insightfull remarks just sure to put me in a good mood.
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casullshooter
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 01:19 am |
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| Once again the shooter was on prescription anti-depressants, it looks like a strong relation between violence and these drugs is repeating itself.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 01:26 am |
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casullshooter wrote: Once again the shooter was on prescription anti-depressants, it looks like a strong relation between violence and these drugs is repeating itself.
It goes back a good ways.
Type "psychiatric drugs" into the search tool on YouTube. I saw at least four documentary-seeming thumbs.
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PT111
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 02:05 am |
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casullshooter wrote: Once again the shooter was on prescription anti-depressants, it looks like a strong relation between violence and these drugs is repeating itself.
I would say you are on to something ther as many people who have violently suicidal tendencies first seek help usually involving anti-depressants and other forms of treatment. Unfortunately the treatments don't always work and they go ahead with thier plans. If they had not tried to seek any treatment then it would probably have happened much earlier. I would say that their is a definite link between people who take anti-depressants and commit suicide. They have also found that over 90% of all Americans diagnosed with colon cancer use toilet paper.
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FogRider
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 02:31 am |
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PT111 wrote: casullshooter wrote: Once again the shooter was on prescription anti-depressants, it looks like a strong relation between violence and these drugs is repeating itself.
I would say you are on to something ther as many people who have violently suicidal tendencies first seek help usually involving anti-depressants and other forms of treatment. Unfortunately the treatments don't always work and they go ahead with thier plans. If they had not tried to seek any treatment then it would probably have happened much earlier. I would say that their is a definite link between people who take anti-depressants and commit suicide. They have also found that over 90% of all Americans diagnosed with colon cancer use toilet paper.
Short verson: Correlation =/ Causation.
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timf343
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 06:22 am |
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So, does anyone know...did the mall have a sign posted "No guns" ?
Last edited on Thu Dec 6th, 2007 06:23 am by timf343
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openryan
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Apr 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Indiana USA |
| Posts: | 1602 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 08:12 am |
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timf343 wrote: So, does anyone know...did the mall have a sign posted "No guns" ?
Dunno, but I went on the von maur website, as well as the malls website, neither mentions any type of bans on firearms or weapons in general.
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 09:10 am |
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I know the majority of the sheeple at the mall when this happened will probably turn to gun grabbing... [sarcasm]after all, if assault rifles were illegal and if 'high' capacity magazines were illegal, there's no way this would have happened... right?[/sarcasm]
From the article...Negron said every available officer in the city was sent to the mall, and it took six minutes from the time of the call for the first officers to arrive.
I wonder if that first officer went into the mall or waited outside a few minutes for other officers to arrive. I can't blame him if he did the latter.
This incident illustrates three important points:- Self defense situations can happen anywhere at any time.
- When seconds count, the cops are just 6 minutes away.
- Long guns may be necessary in a self defense situation.
<Edited to add point 3>
Last edited on Thu Dec 6th, 2007 09:28 am by CA_Libertarian
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 01:53 pm |
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Virginian’s Response to Omaha Tragedy
I’m sorry Omaha. My heart goes out to you. I feel your pain, I really do. I am a native son. I experienced the Virginia Tech aftermath emotions. Anger, frustration, raw emotions and bitterness well up in me. The absolute devastation, the stupidity of Robert Hawkins and pain to the families at the injury and death wrought on the defenseless souls.
Yet again when seconds count, the police are only minutes away…..in this case only six (6) minutes away!
I’ve read that a common thread from survivors was “I didn’t know what to do!” You could not conceive of this happening there and nobody was prepared or trained to stop it. As a result of this tragedy, you can probably expect a knee jerk reaction to ban defensive handguns in shopping centers there too - even though the shooter used a long gun. Makes sense to me - NONSENSE.
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/12163196.html
No ban or law against weapons would/could have prevented this - criminals like Robert Hawkins will still violate the law and their fellow man. What will it take to wake up Americans? You must take responsibility for your own lives - nobody else can! If you are not prepared to defend your life and that of your loved one and neighbor, who will? Do not be deceived by feel safe laws. It is up to you to be prepared and personally react to the best of your ability and judgment. Too soon to hear this? No it is not! It is late, but not too late to prepare for the next time…..and there will be a next time.
Again, my heart goes out to you. Respond to this tragedy with a positive reaction - vow to never become a passive victim.
Take heed. Protect your rights. Learn from adversity.
Yata hey
Last edited on Thu Dec 6th, 2007 01:55 pm by Grapeshot
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soloban
Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 10:51 pm |
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The most effed up part of the whole story is that he was showing off this SKS to his family a day or two prior and mom said she though "it was too old to work anymore."
If your lil precious is on Anti-Depressants you shouldn't even let him around a squirt gun let alone full on Russian SKS
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casullshooter
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 7th, 2007 11:04 am |
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My son(now 18), was on these drugs after I separated from my Ex. She insisted he was depressed and with the "help" of the Psyc community forced these drugs on him. It made things worse, as he was found at school with a Shotgun/Hit list in his possesion (Mom at top of list). The Ex had been a Psyc major(no degree) in College and bought into all the psycobabble BS.
I was able to gain custody and do a slow weaning away and all is OK to this day. He was depressed because he was living with a head case that would be enough to make anyone want to kill themself to escape. The thoughts of harming others only surfaced after the "medication" began.
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XD40coyote
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:33 am |
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Hmm how strange, I have been on an antidepressant for 14 years, since I was 21, and I have yet to kill anyone, hurt anyone, have police called on me, go to a hospital...
Get the picture?
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:53 am |
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XD40coyote wrote: Hmm how strange, I have been on an antidepressant for 14 years, since I was 21, and I have yet to kill anyone, hurt anyone, have police called on me, go to a hospital...
Get the picture?
Yes. Google anti-depressants and suicidal ideation (PC term meaning you start thinking about killing yourself), violence, adverse reactions, etc.
There is a reason European regulators are coming down on anti-depressants. Ditto, black box warnings on the labels in the US.
I've come across more than one recorded interview with a parent or professional who said that the violence didn't start until the drug was involved.
And this goes way back. Wasn't it valium or something that was supposed to be the new wonder drug for some condition, perhaps not depression, but eventually the pharmaceutical industry had to recognize that it caused violence because some people who had no real history of violence went berserk?
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:59 am by Citizen
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XD40coyote
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 02:11 am |
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I was pointing out that you shouldn't lump everyone into the " gets violent on antidepressants" category. I was having some violent thoughts and urges as part of being clinically depressed 14 years ago and the stuff I take stomped it totally out within weeks. Now I was at first on prozac and it worked very well for a few months, but then I started feeling a lil weird again, but no violent urges or anything. So I got switched to zoloft and was ok again.
I don't like being lumped in with these shooter maniacs.
I feel I will someday be discrimated against unfairly due to these events ( such as a ccw application process and eventually gun buying and ownership). I have as much right to defend myself against these f-upped maniacs as anyone else does. This latest guy had a big history of being in hospitals, being messed up, committing crimes, a felon, etc. Cho was stalking women and went before a judge who made him go to a hospital, and got lost in some clerical error or something that let him buy guns. I have NO history of crime, violence, hospitalizations, adjudications,etc.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 02:43 am |
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XD40coyote wrote: SNIP I was pointing out that you shouldn't lump everyone into the " gets violent on antidepressants" category.
This I can understand.
The other side of the coin is that many of these young shooters were on psychiatric medications. Something is up with these drugs. And the failure of psychiatric treatment methods.
I can't immediately recall a school/mall shooter type who was not either being treated or had been treated.
It seems to me that if something wasn't up, we'd see a fair percentage with no psychiatric history represented.
Of course, all the ones that had a psychiatric treatment history or psychiatric drug history opens the door to the question, "Why didn't the treatment or drugs work?"
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 02:53 am by Citizen
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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:31 am |
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Citizen wrote: Of course, all the ones that had a psychiatric treatment history or psychiatric drug history opens the door to the question, "Why didn't the treatment or drugs work?"
One of the reasons why is in the history of depression treatment. When the drugs were introduced they were used in conjunction with talk therapy and with great success. But the therapist is expensive! The cost/benefit judgement was made to minimize the therapist use and expense and get 'acceptable' results from primarily the drug.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:40 am |
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Doug Huffman wrote: SNIP The cost/benefit judgement was made to minimize the therapist use and expense and get 'acceptable' results from primarily the drug.
Thanks for reminding me.
The pharmaceutical industry sells billions of dollars of these drugs.
How in the world did mankind suddenly develop the vast and numerous need for these things in just a couple generations? You'd have to go how far back the genetic tree for the start of the mutation?
Also, the doctor can make a lot more money seeing a person for 15 minutes and writing a prescription. In this manner he can see lots more patients in day. I think the cost/benefit judgement was not so much to delete the therapist because he was expensive, but to focus on the more lucrative way of doing it. Many psychiatrists are in private practice, so any judgement to minimize talk therapy would be made by the doctor himself.
Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:46 am by Citizen
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