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CowboyKen
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 01:38 pm |
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I also note that this seems to say that if you go to a non-school event at say, Thomas & Mack, like a concert, you would seem to be OK to carry there even though it is a UNLV building.
(b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:
(1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System;
Ken
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bobernet
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 5th, 2008 05:28 pm |
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Ken,
I recently had an opportunity to get some clarification on this.
We were taking another couple with us to see Boston/Styx and I called a friend to see if he knew how the police interpreted the law re: carrying at a non-school event at the Thomas & Mack.
He said, his understanding was that they considered it illegal, but he would check with the UNLV campus police dept since he knew some of them. After a few phone calls, he called me back and said "yeah, they definitely consider it illegal and will arrest you if caught."
I realize that LEO are not lawyers and depending how the DA interprets the statute you may or may not be charged. But at this point, at least expect to be arrested if you're caught carrying there.
Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 01:18 am by bobernet
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CowboyKen
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 01:01 pm |
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Bob,
Thanks for the info. I guess it is not surprising but the law does seem clear. If I am ever in that situation and I get in trouble we will all find out what the courts have to say about it.
Ken
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bobernet
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 04:35 pm |
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Just a quick thought...
Note that the language employed is, "and used for any purpose related" not "while used." It is true that the T&M is a component of the school system, and it's also true that it is "used for any purpose related..."
I'd be careful with that one. Very murky waters to chance a conviction.
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aloe
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 11:25 pm |
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T&M is on school property is it not? ANd also school zone = 1000 feet near a school, and T&M is within 1000 feet of the nearest UNLV building.
I have a question, what if you live within 1000 feet of a school? Is OC and CCW illegal around your neighbourhood? And whats the rules regarding community centers?
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bobernet
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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CCW overrides the school zone restriction.
Unlawful "except..."
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an
individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify
that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; |
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aloe
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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bobernet wrote: CCW overrides the school zone restriction.
Unlawful "except..."
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an
individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify
that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; |
But not in CSN, UNLV due to CCW rules.
Any facility of a vocational/technical school, or the University of Nevada, or Community College System without written permission.
I better go check how far away from my nearest school I am when I OC out of my house.
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bobernet
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 11:46 pm |
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| You asked about school zones. The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. That's all I was addressing. State law clearly deals with carry on school property, and CowboyKen already quoted the law in this thread.
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aloe
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 12:17 am |
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I live 700 feet away from a middle school.
Can I still OC or I have to get a CCW license and go concealed?
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Felid`Maximus
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 01:11 am |
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aloe wrote:
Any facility of a vocational/technical school, or the University of Nevada, or Community College System without written permission. I better go check how far away from my nearest school I am when I OC out of my house.
The Federal law, assuming it is constitutional, only applies to K-12 Schools, not colleges. State law only restricts being on the property of schools and colleges but has no mention of school zones.
aloe wrote:
I live 700 feet away from a middle school.
Can I still OC or I have to get a CCW license and go concealed?
I am not a lawyer, and nothing I say shall be construed as legal advice, but here is my opinion.
On your own property or any other private property you are okay because that is an expressly mentioned exception to the federal law. However, once you step off of the curb, the federal law may apply.
Also, you have to know that you are withing 1000 feet of a school zone. In my opinion, I never know that unless I can see the school is obviously within that distance. Also, you might consider that maybe you have not measured the distance between your house and maybe it is a bit over 1000 feet. I couldn't tell the difference between 500 feet, 1000 feet, or 2000 feet very easily.
In my opinion the law is totally unconstitional. If you would like to read more about its constitutionality, here is something from Duke University:
http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?50+Duke+L.+J.+637+pdf
...
Basically, the Supreme Court already called it unconstitutional in 1996 since they did not find it within the scope of the duties of Congress to regulate it, and it deemed to be an unconstitutional extension of the interstate-commerce clause. Congress of course, was stubborn, and rather than just repeal the law, they just modified it to include claims that "it pertains to interstate commerce."
They "declare" that all firearms have moved through interstate commerce, and "assume" that something having moved in interstate commerce in the past means that it pertains to interstate commerce forever. They modified it to include that you have to be found affecting interstate commerce in order to be guilty. Even though this circular logic would indicate you would be just because they say it is so, looking at the reasoning of the Supreme Court when finding it unconstitutional, I would say that it would not be so easy for them to prove that you were affecting commerce.
Personally, I find the federal law to be ignorable. Do so at your own risk. It is a serious federal felony charge if you were convicted of violating it. Has anyone heard of a case where someone was prosecuted under the new iteration of the law?
(According to http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Nx1.htm there were no cases as of 2005. The same webiste also has a summary of all the changes made after the original was found unconstitutional: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf)
It seems to me if someone ever is prosecuted under it, it would go back to the Supreme Court immediately. (And my personal belief is that it would be found just as unconstitutional as its predecessor.) I think there is a good chance that the federal law is nearly unenforceable, or the circumstances which would result in enforcement are very rare.
However, I seriously would not recommend loitering right next to a school. If someone did complain about you the law may decide to make you a test case.
Constitutionality aside, any time you know (or reasonably should know) that you are withing 1000 feet of a school you are violating the wording of this act. The question is, how much faith do you have that it is unenforceable?
-------------------
In order to be convicted of violating this law,
1) The arresting officer knows you are within 1000 feet, and assumes that you do not have a CCW permit.
2) The arresting officer knows about this Federal law and considers it constitional and enforceable.
3) They can prove that you should have known it was within 1000 feet.
4) It can be proven that you were affecting commerce. (Congress declares it.)
5) It has to be deemed constitutional by the courts.
Last edited on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 04:49 pm by Felid`Maximus
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aloe
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 10:38 am |
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I checked my condo address to the school's address using google earth, and it shows 700 feet based on addresses.
However, by checking the distance from the nearest edge of the school to the exit/entrance of my condo complex, its slightly over 1,000 feet so I should be safe when I leave to get milk and supper.
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 04:12 am |
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God I love how concise and specific your laws are in NV. Even attorneys don't know how to interpret CA's laws...
One thing that bothers me: concealed weapon = felony? Even CA lists this a misdemeanor... (I'm not sure what a Class C felony is... maybe that's like a misdemeanor here - up to 1 year in county jail)
One thing that I love: concealing in your car (but not on your person) is OK?! So as soon as I cross the state line I can load my gun (loaded weapons are illegal in most public places in CA) and stash it in the center console? If that's the case then Nevada just went way up on my list of kick-ass states.
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Felid`Maximus
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:29 am |
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CA_Libertarian wrote: God I love how concise and specific your laws are in NV. Even attorneys don't know how to interpret CA's laws...
One thing that bothers me: concealed weapon = felony? Even CA lists this a misdemeanor... (I'm not sure what a Class C felony is... maybe that's like a misdemeanor here - up to 1 year in county jail)
One thing that I love: concealing in your car (but not on your person) is OK?! So as soon as I cross the state line I can load my gun (loaded weapons are illegal in most public places in CA) and stash it in the center console? If that's the case then Nevada just went way up on my list of kick-ass states.
NRS 193.130
(c) A category C felony is a felony for which a court shall sentence a convicted person to imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 5 years. In addition to any other penalty, the court may impose a fine of not more than $10,000, unless a greater fine is authorized or required by statute.
Yep, fully loaded and stashed in the console is perfectly legal in NV.
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:39 am |
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Felid`Maximus wrote:
Yep, fully loaded and stashed in the console is perfectly legal in NV.
And that's without a permit, right? Seems too good to be true... can you point me to some case law?
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Felid`Maximus
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:47 am |
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CA_Libertarian wrote: Felid`Maximus wrote:
Yep, fully loaded and stashed in the console is perfectly legal in NV.
And that's without a permit, right? Seems too good to be true... can you point me to some case law?
Yes, that is true, without a permit. Attorney General Opinion AG 93-14 supports this by saying that NRS 202.350 only applies to a firearm concealed upon a person or in a container carried by that person (like a purse in your hand). I believe automobiles were a consideration in that opinion.
Nevada law also defines a concealed weapon as being "carried upon a person" too. As far as a court case, I can't seem to remember one, but I think the law is pretty solid.
NRS 202.350
"Concealed weapon” means a weapon described in this section that is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.
Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:57 am by Felid`Maximus
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CA_Libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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Found this in the AG Opinion:
Linzetti, 97 Pa. Super. 126 (1929). The word "upon" signifies close contact. A loaded revolver underneath a cushion in the rear seat of an automobile on which the defendant was sitting was not "upon the person," so defendant's conduct was not within the meaning of an act prohibiting carrying a deadly weapon concealed "upon the person." Id. Thus the phrases "concealed upon person," "upon his person," and "upon the person" have been interpreted to include weapons that are in contact with the individual or are being carried within a container by an individual.
So, if you can sit on the cushion concealing the firearm, I would say the center console is fair game.
I tell ya, after reading the wording the CA legislature uses and how our AG opinions make that even worse, I'm in awe with how straightforward things are for you in NV.
Thanks for the help finding the info I needed!
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Felid`Maximus
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 06:06 pm |
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AnakinsKid wrote: Felid`Maximus wrote: AnakinsKid wrote: In the newest update you say,
Places One Cannot Carry a Firearm: Per NRS 202.265 one may not have a firearm anywhere on the property of a University, School, or Child Care facility. (Even with a concealed carry permit the buildings are still off limits though the rest of the property no longer is.)
What NRS makes the property not off limits for CCW holders? My church shares a parking lot with a Daycare/Preschool that we started, and I'm unsure if I can carry there. If there actually is an exemption for CCW holders, I'm ok.
You're right. Sorry to all for this serious error. I misinterpreted 202.3673 which only mentions the buildings.
NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:
(a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.
I would interpret that the same as you did. It doesn't say not to carry on the property, just not in the buildings on the property.
Although NRS 202.3673 only prohibits concealed carry in the buildings, NRS 202.265 does prohibit it on the whole property and as far as I can tell NRS 202.265 does not provide any exceptions for concealed carry permit holders. I had read 3673 as if it replaced 202.265 for permit holders, and then when I looked back on it I couldn't see any reason that it would.
But now that I'm looking at it again, it does say:
except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.
Which would seem to override 202.265, or at least contradict it. I guess I didn't see the "premises" when I looked back at it the second time, although that's probably what made me think it only applied to the buildings the first time.
202.350 at least says in the header "Carrying a concealed weapon without a permit" whereas 202.265 doesn't mention permits whatsoever in its restriction.
What do you all think, does 202.3673 allow concealed carry on the property other than the buildings at universities and override 202.265?
-----
BTW, there is now a september 6 version to in the first post.
Last edited on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 03:19 am by Felid`Maximus
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wayneco
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 05:38 am |
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all this "1000' school zone" talk probably merits some clarification. I believe that is K-12 schools only.
And yes, god bless america, you can toss a locked and loaded pistol in your glove box and drive all over Nevada and it's totally OK. In fact it's more than OK, I recommend it! 
Get a NV or UT/FL CFP and you can carry dang near anywhere...
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CowboyKen
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 07:05 pm |
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wayneco wrote:
Get a NV or UT/FL CFP and you can carry dang near anywhere...
If you are Nevada resident a UT/FL CFP does not work for you. You must have a Nevada permit.
Ken
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aloe
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 14th, 2008 09:29 am |
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wayneco wrote: all this "1000' school zone" talk probably merits some clarification. I believe that is K-12 schools only.
And yes, god bless america, you can toss a locked and loaded pistol in your glove box and drive all over Nevada and it's totally OK. In fact it's more than OK, I recommend it!
Get a NV or UT/FL CFP and you can carry dang near anywhere...
UNLV and CSN campuses are located in unsafe neighbourhoods.
Just early this year, there was a shooting at a seven eleven/petrol kiosk just across the street from UNLV (maryland and harmon). That is one of the most heavily used intersection by students at UNLV.
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