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PT111
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 09:26 pm |
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yes if i were to cause damages without insurance I would still be liable even if i did not carry liability insurance. yes if i were to cause damages i would be in great financial hardship in order to cover those damages. yes if i were to cause damages it would be my responsibility to pay for said damages. no one ever said i would not be responsible and not pay for the damages i caused if such damages were to occur. those are the risks one takes when they do not have insurance - sure i could be out a ton. that's my dice to roll, not yours to judge me on.
BS on that. My mother was hit head on by a driver while stopped on her side of the road with no way to avoid him. He had no insurance, no property and no way to pay the hospital bills that my family incurred due to it. My grandmother's hip was broken and for six weeks after she had to stay in the bed while we paid someone to look after her. After that she used a walker for another three months. Thank goodness my 6 year old sister and 6 year old cousin were strapped in and did not go face first into the windshield like my mother did. 35 years later my mother still finds pieces of glass in her forehead.
It my be your dice to roll but you are gambling with other people's lives and they could be out a ton because of your carelessness. And the other driver, he had never had an automobile accident in his 71 years of living.
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ivyleague28477
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 12:31 am |
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smn wrote:Tell them you're encouraging the 2A by using the first.
Well, yes I do tell people that (or similar) when they ask about our open carrying. Usually IF they ask they're curious, not fearful and it's been a really good opportunty, but my qustion is this:
ivyleague28477 wrote:
If I can substantially prove the stigma which open carry subjects me and my business to with police reports and severe business decline, would it possibly open up this line of questioning again and therefore possibly reverse their ruling here that they need not review RSA 159:6-b?
I suppose I wont really know the answer until I try that argument in court, but I was wondering if, based on the situation, other people thought that might be a reasonable argument to pose.
PT111, I'm sorry to hear of your family's troubles. He had no insurance, no property and no way to pay the hospital bills that my family incurred due to it. That doesn't mean everyone is in that situation just because they do not have insurance. Hospital bills can be paid over time. He should have been held liable even if he couldn't pay them up front and immediately. He could have conceivable paid those bills for your family on a weekly or monthly payment plan to the hospital or doctors or visiting nurses or what have you without any negative effect to your family's financial situation. You're right that his actions were irresponsible; that does not mean mine will be if ever I were in an accident.
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nakedshoplifter
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 01:00 am |
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So if NH is an open carry state, why was Bill not openly carrying his firearm?
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 01:21 am |
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nakedshoplifter wrote: So if NH is an open carry state, why was Bill not openly carrying his firearm?
Click on NH on the map - what does the summary say about car carry?
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nakedshoplifter
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 01:30 am |
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Ahh I didn't look at the map. After watching Dave Ridley's youtube vids I assumed NH OC was as liberal as VA.
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PT111
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 01:45 am |
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ivyleague28477 wrote:
PT111, I'm sorry to hear of your family's troubles. He had no insurance, no property and no way to pay the hospital bills that my family incurred due to it. That doesn't mean everyone is in that situation just because they do not have insurance. Hospital bills can be paid over time. He should have been held liable even if he couldn't pay them up front and immediately. He could have conceivable paid those bills for your family on a weekly or monthly payment plan to the hospital or doctors or visiting nurses or what have you without any negative effect to your family's financial situation. You're right that his actions were irresponsible; that does not mean mine will be if ever I were in an accident.
How was he supposed to do it over time when he died in the accident. He had no family. lived in a rented house and the only thing he owned was the wrecked car. If you have enough to take care of someone if you cause a wreck and not worried about insurance than why are you asking for help with you legal fees?Last edited on Fri Oct 24th, 2008 01:48 am by PT111
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Shawn
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 02:31 am |
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MarkNH wrote: Shawn wrote: Listening to her, she stated there are some interesting facts about NH law, like if its not a common pistol, then you don't need a permit (I can't cite statue). So, what type of weapon were you guys carrying?
Shawn, are you sure you understood her correctly?
Hey Mark,
Yes, that is what she said. Have the courts spoken on this perhaps? I read over NH statues and I didn't see anything either and center fire would be a violation 159.1. She was on NRA news talking to Cam. I'm not sure if those shows are archived, but it might be worth an email to her or the show. Here's the link for the statues if anybody wants them.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-XII-159.htm
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Shawn
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 02:37 am |
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ivyleague28477 wrote: Penny Dean. She's excellent, but we can't afford one lawyer, let alone two, which is why we've created the ChipIn page (http://williamwalker.chipin.com).
Bill is friends with Evan Nappen, so he (of course) wanted to go with him. Evan has authored several books such as The Declaration, all about gun rights.
I have to "go it alone" on my case because Evan can't represent us both (conflict of interest or what have you). Hopefully I can glean enough knowledge from what he is giving Bill and what I research on line to make my case...
2nd, 4th, 9th, 10th, and 14th... okay got it. (I think LOL) as if running a restaurant on a shoestring budget wasn't stressful enough... *sigh*
Hey Ivy,
Yes, I met Mr. Nappen at a law review seminar before...did he move to NH?. I thought he's practice was in NJ. I wasn't trying to be funny, but point out that there are specific legal arguments for each of the amendments listed. To each his own I guess.
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ivyleague28477
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 02:56 am |
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Shawn, Sorry I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing at me. Yep Evan is now in NH.
PT111, I was thinking that I would make payments over time as I suggested that man could have conceivable done since hospitals are typically quite flexible in payment arrangements. However, you bring up another good point - what if I were to die in the accident. Certainly I hadn't thought of that and perhaps I'll take a look at my position on insurance in the near future.
I've been asked to not make any more comment on the case, so I can't answer more questions. I'd still love to hear anyone else's thoughts or ideas or known case law. Any and all input has been and is quite valuable - thank you all!
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cato
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 03:03 am |
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ivyleague28477 wrote:
I've been asked to not make any more comment on the case...
Both of you have said plenty and both of you should delete all your posts except for some statement approved by your attorney and the chip in info. Again good luck....
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rmodel65
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 06:20 am |
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I love freestaters and what they are doing. with that said to the reply about them not having DL and registration etc
I let you look to Ronald Reagan's thoughts on DL requirements, he sure sounds like a freestater  :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUKC9E04Sck
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 06:39 am |
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no carry permit ? wrote: KBCraig wrote: no carry permit ? wrote: "When you refuse to register your car and maintain a drivers licence YOU HAVE NO LIABILITY INSURANCE.
Just in case you're uninformed rather than merely a loudmouthed troll: liability insurance is not required in New Hampshire.
Just in case you're just a jerk from Texas that attacks everyone that disagrees with your foolish opinions with the label TROLL:
New Hampshire is my home. I am temporarily displaced in Texas. Meanwhile, no one knows where you are, since you're anonymous and left your profile blank.
And by the way, the only one who has attacked anyone here is you, bucky.
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no carry permit ?
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 06:39 am |
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ivyleague28477 wrote: To no carry permit ?
- sure i could be out a ton. that's my dice to roll, not yours to judge me on.
no it is not a crime to cross over into another state that requires insurance when you live in a state that does not require it.
the arguement that an average person is required to have a drivers' license in order to travel to and fro upon the earth is one that is under much scrutiny now a days.
Actually your are rolling the dice with other peoples money. Just like the illegal alien that hit me a few years back and had no insurance, you are a scum bag for driving around with no automobile insurance. Obviously you wouldn't have the $50,000 to pay someones medical bills that you injured, if you have to attempt to raise money at OC.org for your current legal bills. So what about the person you rear end ? Are you saying "freestaters" are above making a mistake ? If so why was your registration suspended ? Why did you lie & give the officer a fake name instead of exercising you right to remain silent ? Sounds like a few errors in judgment there, and you are asking for our money to solve your legal problem, brought on by violating the law NOT EXERCISING the right to open carry (which is what this site is about).
Point 2: It is a crime to operate a uninsured vehicle (regardless of your home state's insurance laws) in Most STATES. Virginia & North Carolina for example. Get caught driving without insurance and you have a serious problem. Virginia $500 to get your licence back. North Carolina it's worse. Some States you get 10 days in jail. Drive with "Constitutional plates" and you get charged with use of counterfeit registration (often a felony charge in some States).
I realize you "freestaters" tend to live in your own little world/OZ , but driving uninsured is illegal in most States because it causes risk to OTHERS that could care less about your crusade. With respect to the requirement to have a drivers licence being under scrutiny, only in your little world, most civilized people accept that as FACT and act responsibly.
I sure wouldn't want to eat in you restaurant. If you aren't responsible enough to operate a motor vehicle legally, you probably blow off health department regulations also. I mean why would a "freestater" let the State regulate what temperature raw meat is stored at ? Why should the evil government regulate use of road kill in restaurants ? Required temps to cook fish ? Hell , I'm a "freestater" so what if somebody dies because of my "rights".
Freestaters are just irresponsible, parasites hiding behind the veil of their imaginary world.
Grow up !
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no carry permit ?
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 06:43 am |
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KBCraig wrote: no carry permit ? wrote: KBCraig wrote: no carry permit ? wrote: "When you refuse to register your car and maintain a drivers licence YOU HAVE NO LIABILITY INSURANCE.
Just in case you're uninformed rather than merely a loudmouthed troll: liability insurance is not required in New Hampshire.
Just in case you're just a jerk from Texas that attacks everyone that disagrees with your foolish opinions with the label TROLL:
New Hampshire is my home. I am temporarily displaced in Texas. Meanwhile, no one knows where you are, since you're anonymous and left your profile blank.
And by the way, the only one who has attacked anyone here is you, bucky.
Actually you are constantly throwing around the word Troll for anyone that disagrees with you.
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 07:03 am |
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PT111 wrote: yes if i were to cause damages without insurance I would still be liable even if i did not carry liability insurance.
BS on that. My mother was hit head on by a driver while stopped on her side of the road with no way to avoid him. He had no insurance, no property and no way to pay the hospital bills that my family incurred due to it. My grandmother's hip was broken and for six weeks after she had to stay in the bed while we paid someone to look after her.
That's a terrible thing to go through, but I have to point out that if the other driver had the state-required minimum amount of insurance, it would have been used up within the first week.
Most states' minimum insurance (which is what most drivers carry) is for a maximum bodily injury payment of $20,000 per person and $50,000 per accident. With today's prices, that can be gone in just one day.
A friend died after a motorcycle accident this past summer (it was the car driver's fault). He spent 9 hours at the local emergency room before being flown to Dallas, then passed away after 6 days at Parkland.
When his widow got the final bill for the emergency room, it was for $67,203.43. That's for nine hours! Texas requires 20/40 coverage, so the insurance didn't even cover the first three hours of emergency care. So, you should really keep that in mind when talking about liability insurance.
Now, let me add that trying to stereotype FreeStaters is about like trying to stereotype gun owners. You just can't do it, and anyone trying just looks foolish. The vast majority of those I've met and talked to aren't radical at all. They have driver's licenses and passports and pay income taxes. They register their cars and maintain insurance, for the same reason they wear seatbelts: even though the law doesn't require either in NH, it's a darn good idea.
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 07:26 am |
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no carry permit ? wrote: Actually you are constantly throwing around the word Troll for anyone that disagrees with you.
Would you care to cite any instances of me calling someone a troll? I believe you may be the very first time I've done so. Feel free to prove me wrong on that.
That fact that others have also called you a troll in other threads (like the Mtn Jack incident), is because of just what you've displayed here: blowing in and criticizing people for something you don't like, and wishing bad things would happen to them.
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PT111
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 11:02 am |
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KBCraig wrote: PT111 wrote: yes if i were to cause damages without insurance I would still be liable even if i did not carry liability insurance.
BS on that. My mother was hit head on by a driver while stopped on her side of the road with no way to avoid him. He had no insurance, no property and no way to pay the hospital bills that my family incurred due to it. My grandmother's hip was broken and for six weeks after she had to stay in the bed while we paid someone to look after her.
That's a terrible thing to go through, but I have to point out that if the other driver had the state-required minimum amount of insurance, it would have been used up within the first week.
Most states' minimum insurance (which is what most drivers carry) is for a maximum bodily injury payment of $20,000 per person and $50,000 per accident. With today's prices, that can be gone in just one day.
A friend died after a motorcycle accident this past summer (it was the car driver's fault). He spent 9 hours at the local emergency room before being flown to Dallas, then passed away after 6 days at Parkland.
When his widow got the final bill for the emergency room, it was for $67,203.43. That's for nine hours! Texas requires 20/40 coverage, so the insurance didn't even cover the first three hours of emergency care. So, you should really keep that in mind when talking about liability insurance.
Now, let me add that trying to stereotype FreeStaters is about like trying to stereotype gun owners. You just can't do it, and anyone trying just looks foolish. The vast majority of those I've met and talked to aren't radical at all. They have driver's licenses and passports and pay income taxes. They register their cars and maintain insurance, for the same reason they wear seatbelts: even though the law doesn't require either in NH, it's a darn good idea.
Sadly most states minimum coverage laws are way out of date and the number of people driving around without insurance is scary. In your case that was $20,000 that his mother didn't have to pay. You also have to note that if you are injured it is your responsibility to pay the hospital bills, not the other person's no matter if they were at fault or not.Last edited on Fri Oct 24th, 2008 11:04 am by PT111
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no carry permit ?
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:18 am |
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KBCraig wrote: no carry permit ? wrote: Actually you are constantly throwing around the word Troll for anyone that disagrees with you.
Would you care to cite any instances of me calling someone a troll? I believe you may be the very first time I've done so. Feel free to prove me wrong on that.
That fact that others have also called you a troll in other threads (like the Mtn Jack incident), is because of just what you've displayed here: blowing in and criticizing people for something you don't like, and wishing bad things would happen to them.
Oh yes Mountain Jack, another "Freestater" idiot that like this foolish couple gives open carry a bad rep.Last edited on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:19 am by no carry permit ?
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KBCraig
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 10:56 am |
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no carry permit ? wrote: KBCraig wrote: no carry permit ? wrote: Actually you are constantly throwing around the word Troll for anyone that disagrees with you.
Would you care to cite any instances of me calling someone a troll? I believe you may be the very first time I've done so. Feel free to prove me wrong on that.
That fact that others have also called you a troll in other threads (like the Mtn Jack incident), is because of just what you've displayed here: blowing in and criticizing people for something you don't like, and wishing bad things would happen to them.
Oh yes Mountain Jack, another "Freestater" idiot that like this foolish couple gives open carry a bad rep.
A. You have failed to point out any other instance of me calling someone a troll.
B. Mtn. Jack is not a Freestater. He is in Pennsylvania.
But thanks for playing. Maybe next time you'll do better.
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 11:32 am |
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no carry permit ? wrote:
ivyleague28477 wrote: To no carry permit ?
- sure i could be out a ton. that's my dice to roll, not yours to judge me on.
no it is not a crime to cross over into another state that requires insurance when you live in a state that does not require it.
the arguement that an average person is required to have a drivers' license in order to travel to and fro upon the earth is one that is under much scrutiny now a days.
Actually your are rolling the dice with other peoples money. Just like the illegal alien that hit me a few years back and had no insurance, you are a scum bag for driving around with no automobile insurance. Obviously you wouldn't have the $50,000 to pay someones medical bills that you injured, if you have to attempt to raise money at OC.org for your current legal bills. So what about the person you rear end ? Are you saying "freestaters" are above making a mistake ? If so why was your registration suspended ? Why did you lie & give the officer a fake name instead of exercising you right to remain silent ? Sounds like a few errors in judgment there, and you are asking for our money to solve your legal problem, brought on by violating the law NOT EXERCISING the right to open carry (which is what this site is about).
Point 2: It is a crime to operate a uninsured vehicle (regardless of your home state's insurance laws) in Most STATES. Virginia & North Carolina for example. Get caught driving without insurance and you have a serious problem. Virginia $500 to get your licence back. North Carolina it's worse. Some States you get 10 days in jail. Drive with "Constitutional plates" and you get charged with use of counterfeit registration (often a felony charge in some States).
I realize you "freestaters" tend to live in your own little world/OZ , but driving uninsured is illegal in most States because it causes risk to OTHERS that could care less about your crusade. With respect to the requirement to have a drivers licence being under scrutiny, only in your little world, most civilized people accept that as FACT and act responsibly.
I sure wouldn't want to eat in you restaurant. If you aren't responsible enough to operate a motor vehicle legally, you probably blow off health department regulations also. I mean why would a "freestater" let the State regulate what temperature raw meat is stored at ? Why should the evil government regulate use of road kill in restaurants ? Required temps to cook fish ? Hell , I'm a "freestater" so what if somebody dies because of my "rights".
Freestaters are just irresponsible, parasites hiding behind the veil of their imaginary world.
Grow up !
Hey, troll, did you know that you can drive without insurance in Virginia?
At any rate, I just want to say that I, for one, have read over this thread and incident and you Freestaters have my full support! I wish I could frequent your restaurant; I'd get the cowboy discount every week!  Someone needs to run an establishment like that here in CA.
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