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doobie
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed May 14th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 65 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:47 pm |
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nakedshoplifter wrote: Doobie,
I just watched this video, and I for one think you're doing us all a disservice. The folks who normally go out OC and get harassed by cops are not looking for harassment. We don't pace up and down the street in a kilt, wearing a firearm, spare mags, and flashlight while filming ourselves opining "Ridley style" about how nervous we are making nearby citizens while noting the positions of police officers around us. I make special note of this because you don't seem to have a purpose during this walk except to provoke a police response, which... surprise surprise... you received. I've seen this time and time again, where someone on this forum grabs a camera and attempts to provoke a police response so they can post up on the forum how heroic they were. Open Carry should be carried out by citizens who are responsible and mature, the gun is just another tool on their belt. *If* they encounter police in during their daily activities and they record it, well great. But, we as a whole do not go out instigating police contacts. Feel free to continue doing this if you must, but don't expect a lot of sympathy here when you get hooked up by Officer Friendly because you were looking for trouble.
I wasn't wearing a kilt. I parked at one store I went shopping at, then walked down the road to another store to shop at, then walked back.
Last I was aware it's not illegal to walk from point A to point B then back to point A; carrying a firearm or not.
I'd be much happier if non-police people stopped me to chat with me. Unfortunately that usually happens when I'm sans video camera.
I had a very nice conversation with a former Marine in the grocery store two weeks ago, and one with an 8 year old kid in a pet shop.
Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:49 pm by doobie
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jegoodin
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:01 pm |
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nakedshoplifter wrote: Doobie,
I just watched this video, and I for one think you're doing us all a disservice. The folks who normally go out OC and get harassed by cops are not looking for harassment. We don't pace up and down the street in a kilt, wearing a firearm, spare mags, and flashlight while filming ourselves opining "Ridley style" about how nervous we are making nearby citizens while noting the positions of police officers around us. I make special note of this because you don't seem to have a purpose during this walk except to provoke a police response, which... surprise surprise... you received. I've seen this time and time again, where someone on this forum grabs a camera and attempts to provoke a police response so they can post up on the forum how heroic they were. Open Carry should be carried out by citizens who are responsible and mature, the gun is just another tool on their belt. *If* they encounter police in during their daily activities and they record it, well great. But, we as a whole do not go out instigating police contacts. Feel free to continue doing this if you must, but don't expect a lot of sympathy here when you get hooked up by Officer Friendly because you were looking for trouble.
Naked,
I certainly agree with you that the vast majority of us are not taking an "in your face" approach to exercising out right to openly bare arms, but that does not mean that there isn't a place for those that do. Virginia today is a much different place than it was just a few years ago. If it weren't for a few brave individuals who tested the waters at Starbucks, various restaurants, and other public places then I suggest that the non-event when walking around Fairfax County and other NoVA locations would not be the norm. There are cities and towns in New Hampshire where the police response continues to be draconian. I think that warrants an approach like Doobie's. I don't think he is doing us a disservice any more than those that openly carried into the Republican Convention here in VA or who carried and handed out stickers outside the Richmond Collesium did us a disservice. There is a time to be low key and a time to be aggressive.
Regards.
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Jeremy2141
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 10:36 pm |
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What part of "the people shall have the right to keep and BEAR arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property, and the state" do you not understand?
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LiveFreeOrDie
Opt-Out Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | New Hampshire |
| Posts: | 136 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:32 am |
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I like what Doobie is doing, but his narration on the video does give the impression of someone seeking attention.
Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:34 am by LiveFreeOrDie
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:40 am |
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LiveFreeOrDie wrote: I like what Doobie is doing, but his narration on the video does give the impression of someone seeking attention.
Certainly others can take that impression, undermining the activity somewhat.
Nothing wrong with exposing police misconduct. Might be a good idea to not disaffect viewers with a sheeple-view of rights, though.
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LiveFreeOrDie
Opt-Out Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | New Hampshire |
| Posts: | 136 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:43 am |
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Citizen wrote: LiveFreeOrDie wrote: I like what Doobie is doing, but his narration on the video does give the impression of someone seeking attention.
Certainly others can take that impression, undermining the activity somewhat.
Nothing wrong with exposing police misconduct. Might be a good idea to not disaffect viewers with a sheeple-view of rights, though.
I'm not advocating sheepishness. I was referring more to the "people in cars are looking at me" and "someone just yelled...I don't know if they were yelling at me." It seemed like he felt guilty for something. That's all. Like I said, I like what he does.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:54 am |
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LiveFreeOrDie wrote: Citizen wrote: LiveFreeOrDie wrote: I like what Doobie is doing, but his narration on the video does give the impression of someone seeking attention.
Certainly others can take that impression, undermining the activity somewhat.
Nothing wrong with exposing police misconduct. Might be a good idea to not disaffect viewers with a sheeple-view of rights, though.
I'm not advocating sheepishness. I was referring more to the "people in cars are looking at me" and "someone just yelled...I don't know if they were yelling at me." It seemed like he felt guilty for something. That's all. Like I said, I like what he does.
Actually, I was agreeing with you.
By "sheeple-view of rights," I meant broad-public viewers who do not share a hard line view of rights, who would get hung up on "looking for trouble" and completely miss that rights are rights whether looking for trouble or not, that "looking for trouble" can also be the same thing as probing for anti-rights police attitudes so they can be corrected, etc.
I think we're on the same page.
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Webcrawler
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:07 pm |
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| Interesting. So it seems you're not required to provide ID or answer their questions. Are you required to surrender your firearm even if illegally detained?
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doobie
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 04:54 pm |
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Webcrawler wrote: Interesting. So it seems you're not required to provide ID or answer their questions. Are you required to surrender your firearm even if illegally detained?
I stand by my 4th amendment rights and do not consent to you taking even temporarily my firearm or any object on my person.
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LiveFreeOrDie
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 1st, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 06:30 pm |
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Webcrawler wrote: Interesting. So it seems you're not required to provide ID or answer their questions. Are you required to surrender your firearm even if illegally detained?
By definition, you're not required to do anything outside of normal when illegally detained. However, it's hard to know when the detention is legal or not since there is no bright line...and refusing to hand over your firearm when detained - even unlawfully - won't end well.
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thefirststrike
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Moscow, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 115 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 07:52 pm |
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Wow, the profanity alone was worth watching this video. What a lack of professionalism on the part of the officer.
I thought NH was supposed to be this super free state...how come there are so many altercations with people in NH for open carrying?
Dave R
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LiveFreeOrDie
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 07:59 pm |
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thefirststrike wrote: Wow, the profanity alone was worth watching this video. What a lack of professionalism on the part of the officer.
I thought NH was supposed to be this super free state...how come there are so many altercations with people in NH for open carrying?
Dave R
We get a lot of altercations because we have a lot of people doing it. New Hampshire is the freest state in the country, but nowadays, that's not saying much is it?
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thefirststrike
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 08:43 pm |
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LiveFreeOrDie wrote: thefirststrike wrote: Wow, the profanity alone was worth watching this video. What a lack of professionalism on the part of the officer.
I thought NH was supposed to be this super free state...how come there are so many altercations with people in NH for open carrying?
Dave R
We get a lot of altercations because we have a lot of people doing it. New Hampshire is the freest state in the country, but nowadays, that's not saying much is it?
Well it just also seems like even non-OC'ers and non-gun people are constantly getting into situations with the authorities in NH. Obviously Dave Ridley, but also so many people in Keene and thereabouts, always on Youtube for some court case or another, lots of videos of people getting talked to by police for this or that. I guess maybe because you all are constantly challenging various ridiculous laws and so on maybe? Just wondering.
Dave R
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LiveFreeOrDie
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 08:47 pm |
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thefirststrike wrote: LiveFreeOrDie wrote: thefirststrike wrote: Wow, the profanity alone was worth watching this video. What a lack of professionalism on the part of the officer.
I thought NH was supposed to be this super free state...how come there are so many altercations with people in NH for open carrying?
Dave R
We get a lot of altercations because we have a lot of people doing it. New Hampshire is the freest state in the country, but nowadays, that's not saying much is it?
Well it just also seems like even non-OC'ers and non-gun people are constantly getting into situations with the authorities in NH. Obviously Dave Ridley, but also so many people in Keene and thereabouts, always on Youtube for some court case or another, lots of videos of people getting talked to by police for this or that. I guess maybe because you all are constantly challenging various ridiculous laws and so on maybe? Just wondering.
Dave R
I'm not part of that crowd so I can't really comment, but I always thought it had to do with the fact that they're challenging and pushing the limits. Most people, if told to turn off a camera or sit down or whatever will do it. The liberty activists in NH are more steadfast, perhaps because they have large numbers and their numbers are growing. Also, unlike other places, almost every abuse in NH is captured on video because almost every activist in NH has a camera with them all the time.
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DKSuddeth
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 11:31 pm |
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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
I'm not part of that crowd so I can't really comment, but I always thought it had to do with the fact that they're challenging and pushing the limits. Most people, if told to turn off a camera or sit down or whatever will do it. The liberty activists in NH are more steadfast, perhaps because they have large numbers and their numbers are growing. Also, unlike other places, almost every abuse in NH is captured on video because almost every activist in NH has a camera with them all the time.
They don't call it the 'free state project' for nothing.
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Jeremy2141
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 02:13 am |
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I've walked with doobie picking up trash in Concord while open carrying a 1911A1 and a Walther PP. He is not out looking for trouble or trying to confront police. He has a right to carry, and likes to do so. He also likes to protect himself from the police by carrying a camera. They are much less likely to be agressive when he has his camera. There have been a few incidents in several cities where the police got a little out of hand, including forcibly disarming and taking ID from people without their consent without probable cause.
I'm also a free state project pioneer member (already a resident of NH).
Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 02:16 am by Jeremy2141
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Webcrawler
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 03:12 pm |
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I stand by my 4th amendment rights and do not consent to you taking even temporarily my firearm or any object on my person.
That's wisely said. Combine that with a digital recorder in your pocket, and you can make some money in a year or two if he takes it anyhow. Thanks for the response.
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LiveFreeOrDie
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 06:07 pm |
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Webcrawler wrote: I stand by my 4th amendment rights and do not consent to you taking even temporarily my firearm or any object on my person.
That's wisely said. Combine that with a digital recorder in your pocket, and you can make some money in a year or two if he takes it anyhow. Thanks for the response.
Be careful giving advice to out-of-staters about carrying concealed recording devices. It's illegal in NH to record another party without their consent. It's illegal in PA to record another party without their knowledge.
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Gunslinger
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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LiveFreeOrDie wrote: Webcrawler wrote: I stand by my 4th amendment rights and do not consent to you taking even temporarily my firearm or any object on my person.
That's wisely said. Combine that with a digital recorder in your pocket, and you can make some money in a year or two if he takes it anyhow. Thanks for the response.
Be careful giving advice to out-of-staters about carrying concealed recording devices. It's illegal in NH to record another party without their consent. It's illegal in PA to record another party without their knowledge.
I remember the Freedom Marchers in the South in the mid-60's. They were demonstrating to gain their rights. This seems like a demonstration to reinforce our rights. Maybe he's a bit too dramatic in his narration, but I think his intent is well placed. And the fact is, he did nothing illegal under NH law. (I lived in NH for 16 years) The cop was unprofessional at the very least, unlawful at the very most. Too bad more people can't see the video.
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Webcrawler
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:40 pm |
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Be careful giving advice to out-of-staters about carrying concealed recording devices. It's illegal in NH to record another party without their consent. It's illegal in PA to record another party without their knowledge.
Not true. In NH, in public, you must only tell the police you are audio recording them.
In PA, no warning is necessary. Police, being public servants, have no expectation of privacy in performance of their duties.
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