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power_shack
Member
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 10:07 pm |
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I have a question regarding the firearm laws of New Jersey.
My family and I will be traveling from Virginia to a house that we are renting in New Jersey. We wish to bring a handgun with us to keep at the rental house for personal protection.
Our plan is to transport the handgun unloaded, in a locked case, in the trunk of our vehicle. The ammunition will also be in the trunk of the car, separate from the handgun. None of the handgun magazines exceed a 15 round capacity.
We plan to travel directly from our home in Virginia to the rental house in New Jersey, without making any unnecessary stops while in the state of New Jersey. Once we reach the rental property, we plan to leave the firearm in a locked, quick access safe inside the rental house for the duration of our stay. During the trip back to Virginia, we will travel from the rental house directly to our home in Virginia, only making necessary stops and will again transport the handgun and ammunition in the same manner as described above.
Applicable New Jersey law:
NJ Code of Criminal Justice, 2C:39-5. Unlawful Possession of Weapons
b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.
NJ Code of Criminal Justice, Title 2C:39-6
e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.
NJ Code of Criminal Justice, Title 2C:39-6
g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
According to 2C:39-6 e. a person cannot be prevented from "keeping or carrying about his... premises... or other land... possessed by him, any firearm". Meaning that a person does not need a "permit to carry" to keep or carry a handgun while on his premises. In this case, a legal agreement has been signed between my family and the rental home owner, giving us rights to the rental home, which according to the rental agreement and the law will be my family's premises for the duration of the lease agreement. Would everyone agree that the rental property would be considered our "premises" for the duration of our stay?
Thus based on New Jersey law, I think it is lawful for me to keep a handgun on our rental premises without first obtaining a New Jersey "permit to carry". (Which of course I could not get.)
I understand that New Jersey law does not require a "permit to carry" to transport a handgun in a motor vehicle, if it meets the standards stated above (from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair). Would I have to be considered "moving" to be covered by the transportation law?
I am also aware of the federal Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) which states:
18 USC Sec 926A
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Thus, federal law 18 USC Sec 926A seems to override New Jersey law and allows me to legally transport my firearm from "any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm" (my home in Virginia) "to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm" the property I am renting in New Jersey. I currently meet all Virginia laws, and thus can legally possess and carry my handgun at my home in Virginia.
Thus, my question is, do you think New Jersey law enforcement will honor Federal law (18 USC Sec 926A) and/or New Jersey law (2C:39-5, 2C:39-6) and allow safe and lawful passage for myself and my family between Virginia and our New Jersey rental house, and also allow lawful possession of a handgun on our New Jersey rental property?
I called the NJ State Police. They said it was a "gray area" as to whether or not my rental property would be considered my "premises". The lady asked "if I had a good reason for wanting the firearm at the premises, like hunting". I said I had even a better reason for wanting it: Self Defense. She said self defense is not a good reason in New Jersey. She recommended that I leave my firearm at home, which I replied is not a good option for me. She then recommended that I contact a lawyer.
I'd rather not pay big bucks for a lawyer, but if I need to I just might.
Suggestions???
Thanks.
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Evil Ernie
Member
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 10:53 pm |
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From what I've learned (the hard way with a BB gun) you need a FOID to buy one and/or possess one. Bringing one in from out of state is REALLY bad mojo in NJ. If caught with it, plan on spending more than just your vacation in the Grey Bar Hotel. Here's what happened to one traveler who was just passing thru...
http://www.anjrpc.org/ANJRPC-vs-PortAuthority.pdf
Long read but will send chills up your back.
IANAL, so you might want to contact one before partaking of this endeavor.
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power_shack
Member
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 12:18 am |
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Evil Ernie,
Thanks for the reply and information. I read that same story (the link you provided) a while back. It is indeed scary.
From what I can tell, a FID (Firearms Purchasers Identification Card) only applies to the Purchase, Possession, and Transportation of a rifle or shotgun, not a handgun. It looks to me like a Permit to Purchase a Handgun must be acquired before a handgun is purchased, but is not needed for one that is already owned. The equivalent of the FID for handguns seems to be the Permit to Carry, which is only given to the privileged few. The law seems to allow for the transportation and possession of a handgun without any kind of permit or card, as long as the laws I stated above are followed.
I'm almost thinking that there is greater risk (fear of arrest) in taking a firearm for self-defense than there is in not taking it.
It is sad to see a state restrict and infringe fundamental rights like they do.
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Evil Ernie
Member
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 02:19 am |
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Sadder yet is that is the birthplace of our freedoms. And now England looks and NJ and thinks "HA HA!!! PWNED!!!"
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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 3862 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 04:14 am |
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OK, let's say, for the sake of argument that it is a grey area leaning towards prohibited.
You transport the firearm under federal law, unloaded, locked in a case, the ammo separate and unloaded mags locked in a separate container, all locked into a suitcase with yet another lock on that case -- clearly above and beyond not accessible. All well within the law.
You get to the rental house. You carry in the suitcase. You load the pistol and secure it in the safe you mentioned. And there it stays unless someone breaks in and threatens the lives of your family. Assuming that you have a safe trip (and why would you be taking your family there if you didn't think it was safe) you unload the pistol, unload the mags, resecure and lock everything, carry the locked suitcase out to the car and drive home.
Now, where in any of that would you expect that any LEO would search your vehicle or your rental property? If there is no search how would any NJ LEO know that you have a firearm? If you are pulled over in your car, you are well within federal law in your manner of transport. If it is in your rental house, the only way anyone will know that you have it is if you had to use it. If you have to use it to defend your family and NJ LEO arrests you for having a handgun, are you going to be like, "Oh snap, I wish I would have let my family be seriously injured or killed instead of having to deal with this bogus charge." ?
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power_shack
Member
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:11 am |
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deepdiver,
Thanks for the input. I agree that under the law I should be protected. My main concern was whether or not I would get falsely arrested or detained in the rare case I got pulled over, the NJ Officer "discovered" my gun, and then decided to take me in until things got sorted out.
Thanks.
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