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GMF_Len
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 10th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Mexico USA |
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 11:12 pm |
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suntzu wrote: this is EXACTLY why if it does not personally concern you--stay out of it.
You DO defend yourself when you or your family is threatened--but you should never stick your nose into business that does not concern you. And THAT is exactly what has the former marine in jail now--whereas if he had simply minded his own business he might still be free.
Wow... I hope we're not neighbors.
If your wife or child or even you are being beaten, raped, or otherwise harmed...
"It's none of my business"
Come to think of it, with your rules if your house is on fire it's none of my business either huh?
Please don't move in to my neighborhood.
Peace.
Last edited on Fri Jul 10th, 2009 11:32 pm by GMF_Len
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suntzu
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 12:52 am |
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GMF_Len wrote: suntzu wrote: this is EXACTLY why if it does not personally concern you--stay out of it.
You DO defend yourself when you or your family is threatened--but you should never stick your nose into business that does not concern you. And THAT is exactly what has the former marine in jail now--whereas if he had simply minded his own business he might still be free.
Wow... I hope we're not neighbors.
If your wife or child or even you are being beaten, raped, or otherwise harmed...
"It's none of my business"
Come to think of it, with your rules if your house is on fire it's none of my business either huh?
Please don't move in to my neighborhood.
Peace.
And look what the former Marine got for his trouble.... He is now charged with murder simply because he charged in to the rescue over something that did not involve any threat of seriously bodily injury or death...
and yes, if I come up on something similar where a crime is being committed that does not involve the threat of serious bodily injury or death to another person--simple property crime for example...yes I would mind my own business, and while I would call the police, I would NOT volunteer to get more info if the police asked me to get it for them. I would say--send an officer, do your job and get the information you want yourselves. The only info I would give them when I called would be the address of the place, and as good a description as I could get without getting too close to them...
Yes you took what I said wrong. No I would not stand by and watch someones house burn down.
Yes I tend to mind my own business unless the incident involves the threat of serious injury or death. Yes, it is possible that if the Marine had used any common sense at all he would not most likely be charged with murder today.
He should have hung up when the police asked him to go closer and get info, and yes, with a simple property crime as was reported in the news--he should have minded his own business--he called the police--with a simple property crime that is enough.
Pick and choose your battles--the Marine forgot this, if he learned it at all. But hindsight is 20/20
Last edited on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 12:54 am by suntzu
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cloudcroft
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 04:43 am |
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" I would say--send an officer, do your job and get the information you want yourselves. " -- suntzu
I agree...after all, isn't that what they were HIRED to do? Police work, right?
Yet the police seem to have a higly unique job and one unlike any the rest of us have or ever had: To do THEIR job, they are regularly asking for help from the public, yet then tell the public how to help, i.e., do this, do not do that. I don't see how the police can ask for help to do THEIR job as often as they do and then put restrictions (or disclaimers) on how said help is to be provided.
Beggars can't be choosers, can they?
MOST OTHER JOBS I am aware of expect employees to do what they were hired to do WITHOUT any outside help...or said employees are fired for not getting it done. I believe cops should be held to the same standard: Don't ask for help like some incompetent or lazy slacker, YOU do the job you were hired to do. If you can't then find some other line of work. The REST OF US have/had to do our jobs without asking for help, so why can't the police?
It must be great to be hired for some job, then regularly ask others for help doing it. People like that should be ashamed.
As for me (and cops needing or not needing lots of help to do their job has nothing to do with it) I am a "get involved" type of guy. I wouldn't have had to be asked to get the license plate of a car apparently involved in a felony being committed, I'd just DO it. Likewise, if the POSs tried to harm me -- and I WOULD expect them to try -- my gun would be ready to go in my lap and I'd kill them without any hesitation (most likely from inside my car).
Again though, it's a shame citizens have to be more concerned about "the law" than they are of street trash punk criminals...who don't care whatsoever.
And it's pathetic that the police are always asking for help to do a job THEY were hired to do.
-- John D.
Last edited on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 10:11 pm by cloudcroft
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suntzu
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| Joined: | Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 04:35 am |
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cloudcroft wrote:
And it's pathetic that the police are always asking for help to do a job THEY were hired to do.
-- John D.
Indeed it is...and if you get hurt trying to gather that information for them do you think they would compensate you for your medical bills? Noooo....they would be on the 6pm news telling the people "you really need to let the "professionals" handle this....."---it is pathetic the way they do.
I would never allow them to talk me into gathering "more information" for them--if they want it, then they can send a guy out to get it themselves.
Last edited on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 04:35 am by suntzu
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44HP
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| Joined: | Tue Jun 30th, 2009 |
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 04:45 am |
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GMF_Len wrote: suntzu wrote: this is EXACTLY why if it does not personally concern you--stay out of it.
You DO defend yourself when you or your family is threatened--but you should never stick your nose into business that does not concern you. And THAT is exactly what has the former marine in jail now--whereas if he had simply minded his own business he might still be free.
Wow... I hope we're not neighbors.
If your wife or child or even you are being beaten, raped, or otherwise harmed...
"It's none of my business"
Come to think of it, with your rules if your house is on fire it's none of my business either huh?
Please don't move in to my neighborhood.
Peace.
Until our crappy government has our back on this type of thing I really don't think its a good idea either. I never met anyone worthy of possibly losing my freedom over. I'll stick to myself and family.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 04:50 am |
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44HP wrote: SNIP Until our crappy government has our back on this type of thing I really don't think its a good idea either. I never met anyone worthy of possibly losing my freedom over. I'll stick to myself and family.
This is just the natural result of the government's machinations--people being at risk for protecting their friends and neighbors.
Don't fall for their pressure. By "their" I mean those who populate government.
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cloudcroft
Activist Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 05:00 am |
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On one hand, I couldn't care less -- let alone come to the aid of -- people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER but won't (refuse to) arm themselves and take personal resonsibilty for their own protection (I say let them reap what they believe) vs. coming to the aid of someone under criminal assault where I don't know where they stand on the RKBA, etc..
Still, I would get involved and err on the side of "Christian charity" and "public service and duty."
But maybe that's just me.
Frankly, the armed citizen doesn't need a police force...it's for all the other sheeple, which are legion.
-- John D.
Last edited on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 05:01 am by cloudcroft
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Mark (IL)
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 12th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Mexico USA |
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 08:13 pm |
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| This is a messier case than it first appeared, it seems. Sanchez apparently has twice in recent months apprehended and held property crime perps at gunpoint, then called 911. (Likely he has been "patrolling"?) Also it appears that the story that 911 asked him to get the license plate isn't consistent with the tapes... the trick here I think is to separate what likely was a history of something very close to playing cop with the specifics of the shooting, which by all accounts so far released and the tapes, may have been justified. He did chase them, but in this case did call 911 first, apparently was attacked when the perps figured out he was following and calling them in, likely did fear great bodily harm, and fired to protect himself. Overall, maybe not exactly a hero, but sounds to me like the shot itself was justified within my amateur understanding of NM law. More may yet come out...
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cloudcroft
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 12:41 am |
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IMO, "vigilance committees" collectively-speaking (and as pertaining to an individual, a "vigilante") are as American as apple pie. Before there were cops, or in places where there WEREN'T any (for whatever reason), Vigilance Committees (and sometimes "regulators") -- i.e., "We the People" took care of criminals very nicely.
So contrary to popular but ignorant public belief, the term "vigilante" was NOT a negative in the historical context, but it has BECOME negative because of use by ignorant citizens (watching too many liberally-biased movies), cops and police chiefs...and sorry politicians for sure.
Personally -- and although TODAY someone being a "vigilante" will get him/her in trouble (even though he/she would be a hero to many more people) -- I see nothing AT ALL wrong with the concept or practice.
If "the law" and "the authorites" can't do the job (and they haven't/can't for what, almost 200 years now?), then let "We the People" do it, neghborhood by neighborhood. It'll get done.
And there will be little need for prisions except for temporary holdng tanks.
-- John D.
Last edited on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 03:11 am by cloudcroft
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45guy
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 14th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 06:16 pm |
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| Belen is a very small town and the Gabaldon clan is very well connected. I believe the charge is mainly political, the DA wants it off his back and on some one else. If the grand jury or the judge drops it. he can say he tried. Last edited on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 10:57 pm by 45guy
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Trainer23
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 17th, 2009 08:12 pm |
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This has been interesting as the facts have come out, ie. dispatch asked him to get a plate #. It is easy to come to conclusions based on hearsay. Good thing there is some evidence. I hope it will be enough.
I do not know if this was justifiable or not. When I listened to the 911 tapes, I was concerned that there is not a sound of the BG attacking the Marine, There was no sound of a breaking window. and there was no sound of gun shot(s). We do not know what the Marine told police after the event. We all know talking to police is best done with your attorney present.
It appears the the DA has conflicting stories presented by the Marine himself. This does complicate things. I think it is reasonable to thourghly investigate. I do not understand why an arrest was made prior such investigation and presentation to a GJ.
Please post any info you find on the the progress of this case. The news seem to have let it go.
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ixtow
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 11:38 pm |
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When the PoPos want to hold you indefinitely, and they always do when you cross their political agenda, they use 'he has told us conflicting stories' as a way to get the SA/DA to file charges without really looking into the details, just so they can keep holding the citizen.
But so-called 'conflicting stories' can be something as simple as using the word 'are' instead of 'is.' If you answer one word different when asked the same question twice, they call it 'conflicting stories.'
The SA/DA doesn't like it when the truth comes out; but by then, you the citizen have already been in jail for quite a while and the Cops with an agenda have already gotten their way, even though charges are dropped. The DA/SA and the PoPos don't want to look divided, and both want to save face, so they both just cite "The investigation yielded insufficient evidence to prosecute."
Even though all the 'investigating' had already been done before the 'subject' had even been arrested.....
SOP.
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Jizzzle
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Holloman AFB, USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 05:26 am |
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Regardless of what he should have done.
IE minded his own business or not. Either way.
There is 1 less person walking the streets up to no good.
If the perp actually did attack him and put his life in danger trying to cover up or prevent him from calling the police about some property damage/theft then I am all for what he did. He did all of us a favor. The world is a better place regardless of if he is or isn't a vigilante.
Another thing. Speculation is the easy part that comes after someone already handled the hard decisions. Don't forget that.
Last edited on Wed Aug 5th, 2009 05:26 am by Jizzzle
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Hiredgun30
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| Joined: | Wed Jun 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Caldwell, Idaho USA |
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Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 04:49 am |
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check out this video guys.. its fits this topic...
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1541138791?bclid=1527680698&bctid=16359316001
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Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:41 am |
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The perp busted teh guys window out, with what? If he did it with his fist, then his fist (and strength behind them) are lethal weapons. Side windows are hard to break out, ya know.
Or did the perp have a tool of some sort, like a tire iron?
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snoball
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Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 03:08 pm |
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Hiredgun30 wrote: check out this video guys.. its fits this topic...
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1541138791?bclid=1527680698&bctid=16359316001
From the video- 5 things to do after a shooting by Massad Ayoob:
1. Point out the perpetrator to police
2. Tell police you will “Sign the complaint”
3. Point out evidence to police
4. Point out witnesses to police
5. Tell police you will give full cooperation in 24 hours after speaking with attorney
The following is what one of my concealed carry instructors said we should carry in our wallet to read to the police if involved in a shooting:
“I am an American citizen and I wish to cooperate fully
in your investigation. If you have a properly executed
warrant, please serve it. If you have a tape or video
recorder, please activate it at this time so that I may
read this aloud for the record. I choose to exercise my
Constitutional rights by refusing to speak with you or
answer any questions until I have consulted with an
attorney. I do not consent to any search of my person,
property, vehicle or residence.”
Last edited on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 03:10 pm by snoball
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:44 pm |
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About the DA 'Lemuel Martinez: "After graduating from the University of Southern California in 1978, he spent more than a year working and traveling in Europe, (doing what... with whom?) earned a master's degree at St. John's College in Annapolis, Md., and taught middle and high-school students, both in Santa Fe and at Laguna Pueblo. He also earned a master's in education at the University of New Mexico.
This guy's a flamin' LIBERAL! He doesn't seem to have a degree in Law... so what's his education been in? Liberal Arts?
Last edited on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:48 pm by Sonora Rebel
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Mark (IL)
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 12th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Mexico USA |
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 03:51 am |
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| The judge dismissed all charges.
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Trainer23
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 05:14 am |
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From KOBTV.com
The murder charge against a Valencia County man who shot and killed a suspected burglar he had been following was dismissed Wednesday morning. Magistrate Judge Danny Hawkes ruled there was insufficient probable cause to bind Luke Sanchez over for trial on a charge of murder.
The state tried to prosecute Sanchez for either second degree murder or manslaughter for shooting and killing Gary Gabaldon who Sanchez suspected was burglarizing a propane business in Belen back on July 4.
Sanchez called 911, and then tailed Gabaldon and his alleged accomplice who had apparently spotted Sanchez.
Sanchez stayed on the phone with the 911 operator, and was later recorded saying, ““Get back, stay there, stay there,” before telling the dispatcher, “He punched my window out. I just shot one,” and finally, “I just killed one.”
“I accept the judge’s ruling,” Sanchez said after the charge was dismissed, “and I hope the Gabaldon family accepts it as well.”
No members of the Gabaldon family were willing to comment on the dismissal of the charge.
Meanwhile, Sanchez’ father contends that the Gabaldon family has threatened the Sanchez family and deputies say they’ll be on alert through the day.
The preliminary hearing was initially scheduled to be held in the Belen magistrate court but was moved to district court for security reasons.
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1232719.shtml?cat=500
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snoball
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 01:15 pm |
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| DA 'Lemuel Martinez ought to be run out of office. I was so happy to see the headline in today's paper saying the judge dismissed all charges. That DA had him arrested even before there was any evidence or indication that it may have been self defense. I cannot believe how long Sanchez had to remain in jail before he bonded. It is a travesty what DA 'Lemuel Martinez did to a lawful citizen.
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