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wrightme
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 19th, 2008 |
| Location: | Fallon, Nevada USA |
| Posts: | 1361 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 04:42 pm |
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SlackwareRobert wrote: He has company property? Why not call the sheriff and have the stuff picked
up by them? Give them a list of items, and let the system work for you.
For the threats, get a recorder. That they have a record of you trying
to trespass, and him threatening you should help when they come to collect
the corpse on the lawn though.
That does seem strange that you can't trespass someone till after they trespass.
I'll have to remind wall mart of that one when they stop me at the door.
But, if he has received threats, he should be able to get a Restraining Order against him.
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Scooter88310
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| Joined: | Wed Sep 30th, 2009 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 08:26 pm |
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Im just glad I could educate people. (*goofy sarcasm*) But definately not going to do that again. But I don't think I'm gonna have to. Since my brother moved i have had no contact from any of his uncouth friends. And my brother has really turned his life around. I guess this is where we would put "and they all lived happily ever after." Funny thing tho... I did some training as a sheriff reserve, they told me that as long as i felt my life was in danger of "death or great bodily harm" I was authorized to use deadly force. Guess that only applies to those with a badge, huh?
Last edited on Wed Oct 7th, 2009 08:40 pm by Scooter88310
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cgraham
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 02:31 am |
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It seems like knowledge of NM trespass law might be helpful in such situations, if applied proactively.
http://law.justia.com/newmexico/codes/nmrc/jd_30-14-1-8389.html
"30-14-1. Criminal trespass. A. Criminal trespass consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon posted private property without possessing written permission from the owner or person in control of the land."
"B. Criminal trespass also consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon the unposted lands of another knowing that such consent to enter or remain is denied or withdrawn by the owner or occupant thereof. Notice of no consent to enter shall be deemed sufficient notice to the public and evidence to the courts, by the posting of the property at all vehicular access entry ways."
I'm no lawyer, but this means of notification should be adequate to establish that a person is trespassing providing the proper sign is used (I'll leave it to someone else to research the sign specifics, which are important.) I expect that notification by registered, recorded delivery mail that entry is prohibited would reinforce one's position with respect to a specific person.
If an unauthorized person passes the sign, a peace officer can force him to leave, and one should have sufficient grounds for prosecution, because the sign is evidence that the trespasser has been notified.
In the case of shared ownership or occupancy, I expect that an adequate written agreement between the co-occupants would be sufficient to delineate a boundary that one could post and legally defend.
I think one can also sign a complaint at the sheriff's office of a threat, even though they cannot do anything about it without evidence. That complaint is somewhat equivalent to being the first to make the telephone call. NOW you can say that the person who is on file as having threatened you is trespassing on your property.
You still cannot make the fundamental mistake of drawing on an (apparently) unarmed trespasser in NM unless you can articulate a reasonable basis for fear of imminent death or serious injury, but you are in a much stronger position to articulate that fear.
It would be interesting to get a legal take on this.
C
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jhow1nm2
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:39 am |
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Thanks for the post. It sort of seems to amount to what the sheriff's deputy told me over the phone. This thread got hijacked for a while so I haven't checked it in a while.
I think our trespassing law in NM needs revision.
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cgraham
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 07:03 am |
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Personally, I would not depend on what the sheriff's deputy told me. As has been said many times, they are no more legal experts than I.
If a crime has been committed, and there is evidence of it, they should be able to act. In my previous post I outlined how to show that a crime (trespass) HAS been committed.
Obviously the sheriff's office can't do much if you only alledge a crime has been committed. In many states, including NM, if you order a person to leave your unposted property, they must do so. But you can't take action against them because no crime has been committed. If they refuse to leave, they are now trespassing, but how are you going to prove you ordered them to leave earlier? In this circumstance if you call the sheriff & he shows up, you can tell the person to leave in front of the sheriff. This act is known as "trespassing" the intruder.
NOW, if the person shows up on your property again, the sheriff can act, because the order to "keep off" has been documented. This may be what your sheriff's office was referring to.
The fact that the person has made undocumented (or documented) threats in the past is irrelevant to trespass or to use of deadly force, except that if documented it may help to establish premeditation in court. You can defend yourself to the extent NM law permits in general.
So it is better to post your property and call the sheriff to handle any trespass that arises, rather than to confront (in particular) a known threat. It's a variant of the rules that being armed does not make it wise to go to unsafe places, and that carrying a weapon does not mean that one should use it, except as a last resort under specifically defined circumstances permitted by law. A trespasser has the same rights to life and liberty as anyone else who you think MAY be a threat (like it or not) as desert-prospector pointed out in his quote from the NM Bill of Rights; and although that same Bill allows you to protect your property, it does not address the means to which you are restricted in doing so by law (and certainly does not endorse use of deadly force for the purpose).
I'm not a lawyer as I said before, and I'm not sure how the NM law could be changed to make it more satisfactory, given that a person must be able to know when he is trespassing, and that his knowledge AT THE TIME must be demonstrable in court.
Patrolling one's property armed is thus futile, except to provide last-resort defense, much as one might find that reality distasteful. And it might work to one's disadvantage, because it opens the door to accusation of premeditation, in the event shots are exchanged.
C
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