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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 3862 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 08:42 pm |
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[url=http://www.startribune.com/local/south/25452349.html?location_refer=$urlTrackSectionName]First news story as posted below[/url]
Follow-up news story with pics of adult suspects
6 charged in attack on dad protecting daughter at Valleyfair
Father allegedly stomped by group after one tried to grope pre-teen.
By ABBY SIMONS, Star Tribune
Last update: July 15, 2008 - 8:47 AM
The father of a 12-year-old girl who tried to keep a young man from groping his daughter at a popular Shakopee amusement park was seriously hurt late on July 4 after he was allegedly kicked and stomped by a group of men in an attack police called "brutal."
The attack on the unnamed man, which happened just outside Valleyfair Amusement Park, resulted in charges against at least six Twin Cities-area men. They were among several people the initial attacker called on his cell phone to summon them to join the assault.
The group beat up the father as his wife and daughter looked on, police said. The man was seriously injured and unconscious when police arrived.
"We see assaults, but that's brutal," Shakopee police Sgt. Jay Arras said.
Arras said the man and his family were leaving Valleyfair shortly before midnight on July 4 when a man "tried to grab the 12-year-old girl in a sexual manner" near the park exit, the father later told police.
"There was one initially that touched his daughter," he said. "He protected her, and more were called in."
When the attacker's friends arrived, the victim "was jumped from behind by all of them," Arras said.
Seven people were arrested at the scene, while an eighth who fled was caught a short time later.
The six charged with third-degree felony assault in Scott County District Court were Devondre Evans-Lewis, Andrew Shannon, Darris Evans, Terry Arnold, Derry Evans and Anthony Gildersleeve, according to media reports.
Arras said that he didn't know the extent of the father's injuries but that according to the criminal charges, the victim suffered skull fractures and possible bleeding on the brain.
"I just know they were bad," he said.
He added that the group continued to assault other people unprovoked after the attack on the father. There were no reports of other injuries.
Scott County Attorney Patrick Ciliberto and others from his office could not be reached late Monday, and a call to a Valleyfair spokeswoman was not returned.
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Dustin
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 680 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 08:53 pm |
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Hmm, any mag with 12 or more.
2 for each one of them at least.
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AZkopper
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 09:02 pm |
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| Nah, once you've capped one or two, the rest will probably run....
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DopaVash
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Houston, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 259 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 09:08 pm |
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Sad thing is that he could have been a Carrier, but couldn't carry into the amusement park because of a sign.
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tarzan1888
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 1443 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 09:14 pm |
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AZkopper wrote: Nah, once you've capped one or two, the rest will probably run....
This is true, BUT I still carry two extra mags or to speedloaders.
Tarzan
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johnnyb
Banned
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 09:25 pm |
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now you know why this bananna is jumping from side to side... trying to avoid the gropes
Last edited on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 09:25 pm by johnnyb
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falcon1
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 56 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 10:15 pm |
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All six have already been released. From the link in the OP (second page):
Bail was set at $40,000 to $60,000 each and all the suspects posted bail bonds, a jail official said.
And:
A check of state records show that two of the suspects have prior felony charges. Arnold and Evans-Lewis were arrested in an Eagan prostitution sting and charged in April with promoting prostitution in Dakota County. Arnold pleaded guilty in May. Arnold also was convicted of two misdemeanor assaults in 2005 and 2006.
Last edited on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 10:17 pm by falcon1
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grishnav
Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Gresham, Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 421 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 10:23 pm |
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falcon1 wrote: All six have already been released. From the link in the OP (second page):
Bail was set at $40,000 to $60,000 each and all the suspects posted bail bonds, a jail official said.
And:
A check of state records show that two of the suspects have prior felony charges. Arnold and Evans-Lewis were arrested in an Eagan prostitution sting and charged in April with promoting prostitution in Dakota County. Arnold pleaded guilty in May. Arnold also was convicted of two misdemeanor assaults in 2005 and 2006.
I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 11:51 pm |
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grishnav wrote: I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders.
This is not intended as a criticism, but a helpful pointer.
This is the sort of comment that can come back to haunt you if you are involved in a defensive shooting. Prosecutors or the attorney against you in a civil suit can use it to show an inclination to use excessive force beyond what is needed to stop the threat.
Whether and which forums you participate in can be demanded. You do not want to be caught lying about it. Your posts can be subpoenaed.
Last edited on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 11:51 pm by Citizen
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SlacK
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:00 am |
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How about "I don't like repeat offenders, I like jailed offenders"?
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Evil Ernie
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:08 am |
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SlacK wrote: How about "I don't like repeat offenders, I like jailed offenders"?
Evidently, jail didn't get the message across to these individuals. Dead offenders is more to my liking, and I won't be swayed.
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scorpioajr
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:24 am |
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Wow. This is why i carry. This is exactly why...people suck.
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Loneviking
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:38 am |
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Citizen wrote: grishnav wrote: I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders.
This is not intended as a criticism, but a helpful pointer.
This is the sort of comment that can come back to haunt you if you are involved in a defensive shooting. Prosecutors or the attorney against you in a civil suit can use it to show an inclination to use excessive force beyond what is needed to stop the threat.
Whether and which forums you participate in can be demanded. You do not want to be caught lying about it. Your posts can be subpoenaed.
I really get tired of posts like this. Are you an attorney? I really doubt it, as I can show you my law degree and I know in either California or Nevada the odds are very good that statements from a forum would never be admitted into the record. Any attorney worth his license could keep this stuff out of court.
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grishnav
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Gresham, Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 421 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:43 am |
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Citizen wrote: grishnav wrote: I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders.
This is not intended as a criticism, but a helpful pointer.
This is the sort of comment that can come back to haunt you if you are involved in a defensive shooting. Prosecutors or the attorney against you in a civil suit can use it to show an inclination to use excessive force beyond what is needed to stop the threat.
Whether and which forums you participate in can be demanded. You do not want to be caught lying about it. Your posts can be subpoenaed.
I appreciate your concern, but:
1. It's a popular quote from Ted Nugent -- and not one I particularly subscribe to -- meant as a half-joke. If you read some of my other posts on this forum, you'll see I keep preclusion as an essential element of any use of force decision.
2. Short of me admitting in real life that I made these posts, there is nothing concrete enough to actually tie me to them. Even if you trust the source IP logged in the forum software (which any half-geek will tell you is unreliable for any number of reasons), the connection I'm on is shared with any number of other individuals who could be me.
3. Forum posts such as this are considered hearsay in the context of a trial, and are generally inadmissable, so long as my attorney isn't half-brained and doesn't open the door. If, by some magic they aren't considered heresay and inadmisable, see #1 and #2.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:57 am |
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grishnav wrote: I appreciate your concern, but:
Here is what a bigger name than me in defensive firearm use had to say about it:
Last issue Dave Duffy also told you the story of Matt Bandy and some pretty scary stuff about computer security that you REALLY need to know. He and the experts whom he sources know a whole lot more about that than I, but I can add one thing to that discussion: I’m in my 34th year as a sworn police officer, my 19th as a certified “police prosecutor,” and I know for a fact that we DO have the technology to pull things out of your hard drive that you thought were deleted. We DO have the right to ask you, under penalty of perjury, whether you post on any Internet forum, and under what name, and we DO have the power to subpoena any posts via your IP from the Internet hosts, who under law have no choice but to “give you up.” Don’t let the seeming anonymity of the Internet delude you: when things get serious, you won’t be anonymous anymore.
--Massad Ayoob. "Avoiding Legal Traps"
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html
(Near the bottom of the article)
This guy specializes in defending defensive shooters in court. I'll take his advice over almost anything else on legal matters related to self-defense with a gun.
Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:58 am by Citizen
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grishnav
Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Gresham, Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 421 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 01:09 am |
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Citizen wrote: grishnav wrote: I appreciate your concern, but:
Here is what a bigger name than me in defensive firearm use had to say about it:
Last issue Dave Duffy also told you the story of Matt Bandy and some pretty scary stuff about computer security that you REALLY need to know. He and the experts whom he sources know a whole lot more about that than I, but I can add one thing to that discussion: I’m in my 34th year as a sworn police officer, my 19th as a certified “police prosecutor,” and I know for a fact that we DO have the technology to pull things out of your hard drive that you thought were deleted.
But of course. When you delete something, the computer merely marks out the allocation in the file allocation table (or the INODE, or whatever your OS may use). Simply undeleting is a trivial matter left best to first year CS students.
As for actually erasing something... Zeroing out the actual file is a good start. Run a 35-pass Gutmann alg over it and even the NSA is going to have trouble. But because hard drives are magnetic, there's always a chance of recovery.
Which is why you're all running WDE right now, right? I know I am. If they can actually pull stuff that's been encrypted with AES256/Twofish AND blow away with a DoD standard level erasure or a Gutmann pass... Well, then I deserve to get caught with the horrible crime of posting on an interweb forum.
Remember, folks. Security against a tyranicall government is about more than carrying a glock under your shirt.
We DO have the right to ask you, under penalty of perjury, whether you post on any Internet forum, and under what name, and we DO have the power to subpoena any posts via your IP from the Internet hosts,
And I have the right to remain silent, because anything I say can and will be used against me in a court of law.
And there's that phrase again... "Your IP"
There is no such thing. Most providers temporarily lease your modem or router an IP. And even if it's static it's not necessarily tied to you. Mine "comes back" to at least 8 other people in my vicinity, right now. And with two clicks of the mouse, I can be in Sweden, China, Australia...
who under law have no choice but to “give you up.” Don’t let the seeming anonymity of the Internet delude you: when things get serious, you won’t be anonymous anymore.
--Massad Ayoob.
I have a lot of respect for Massad Ayoob, but lets face it, he's not a computer guy. When it comes to attcking my machines, they'd have better luck with a tempest attack, because a portable faraday cage is one thing I don't have yet. 
That said, I'm definitely going to take a look into that story. How police do computer forensics (and protecting my privacy from them) is one of those weird interests of mine.
Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 01:19 am by grishnav
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asforme
Activist Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 02:36 am |
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1. Truecrypt.org, create a hidden volume and store your firefox profile in it.
2. If you intend on posting anything you don't want to be found posting, DO NOT use the same username you do every where else.
3. Leave your wireless network open (via a separate router firewalled away from your local network). Even with empirical proof that they have the IP that was assigned to your modem at the time, they can never prove that it came from your computer. It's also nice to be able to let friends on their laptops use your wireless without letting them on your own network.
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Evil Ernie
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 02:57 am |
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OK, either get it back on topic or start another thread about IP security as it pertains to firearm related forums....please....
As far as the perps, if they touched my kid in that way, they wouldn't be "arrested" enough . As a dad, I have no qualms or fears in that statement.
Self moderated....
Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:51 am by Evil Ernie
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:33 am |
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Evil Ernie wrote: OK, either get it back on topic or start another thread about IP security as it pertains to firearm related forums....please....
As far as the perps, if they touched my kid in that way, they wouldn't be dead enough. As a dad, I have no qualms or fears in that statement.
Happy to go back on topic. We went onto computer anonymity in relation to a comment that wouldn't reflect well in a civil suit or criminal matter. For some reason the poster wants to argue his immunity rather than acknowledge the seasoned trial advocate might know something worth listening to, or at least looking into. Although it seems easier to me to refrain from making those sorts of comments. Those sorts of comments do not impress anybody with their ability to differentiate and think rationally.
And like, the bolded above, they don't reflect well on the forum. They definitely are not the sort of responsible citizen image we want.
I can understand being angry, even enraged. But please find another way to express it.
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AZkopper
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:42 am |
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DopaVash wrote: Sad thing is that he could have been a Carrier, but couldn't carry into the amusement park because of a sign.
Signs do not save your life. Unless they are wanding patrons, I will carry everywhere I go. In my experience with most amusement parks, they may search your bags, but never notice your inside the pants holster.
Those parks that wand their customers i avoid, especially since they tend to have the most questionable customers anyway.
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