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Tnrebel
Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 10:25 pm |
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# 55 JarHead 
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Dustin
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| Joined: | Wed May 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | Louisiana USA |
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 01:32 pm |
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Signed USMC #61
Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 01:32 pm by Dustin
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 03:50 pm |
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Looks like DOD agencies are even fighting the move to last 4 of SSN on ID Cards!
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http://www.armytimes.com/issues/stories/0-ARMYPAPER-3675974.php
Exchanges still demanding SSNs
Policies at odds with DoD drive to protect IDs
By Karen Jowers - kjowers@militarytimes.com
Posted : August 25, 2008
The Army and Air Force Exchange Service and the Navy Exchange Service Command are requiring patrons who do not have Social Security numbers on their military ID cards to produce another document displaying that number in order to conduct certain transactions.
The policies are in effect despite the Pentagon’s ongoing multiyear effort to phase out routine use of full Social Security numbers as official identifiers to minimize the risk of identity theft.
A retired Army lieutenant colonel has filed a complaint with the Pentagon Inspector General about AAFES’ requirements for Social Security numbers.
The policy “flouts the intent of Congress and DoD to take the SSN off the ID card,” retired Army Lt. Col. Mike Stollenwerk, of Alexandria, Va., wrote in an Aug. 9 letter to the IG.
Stollenwerk said he has tried unsuccessfully to resolve the issue with AAFES officials.
Carrying anything that displays the Social Security number could put a customer at risk for identity theft, he said. He advocates removing the entire Social Security number from military ID cards, an effort centered around a petition he has posted online at http://www.petitiononline.com/NOSSN4ID
Over the next few years, all new Defense Department-issued ID cards for troops, family members, retirees and civilian employees will carry only the last four digits of the SSN, officials said.
Starting in 2012, officials also will remove the complete SSNs from the bar code on all new or renewed cards.
Judd Anstey, an AAFES spokesman, said the Defense Department uses Social Security numbers “for all financial transactions to identify and locate service members and their authorized dependents.”
“Consequently, AAFES must continue to require SSNs for certain financial transactions — i.e. checks and refunds at military exchanges — until the military services and DoD develop alternate methods of identifying service members and their families,” he said.
The SSNs of spouses and other family members “are used to validate them as shoppers,” Anstey said.
However, he said, AAFES has been reviewing technological alternatives for about a year in light of the Defense Department’s plan to remove SSNs from ID cards. He said the exchange service is looking to upgrade its technology so SSNs can be read off the bar codes on new ID cards, eliminating the need for patrons to produce some other document with their SSN on it.
Anstey said he wasn’t sure when that change might take effect.
For now, signs in AAFES stores inform customers that if they pay by check and do not have their SSN on the ID card, they must show another document, such as an actual Social Security card, a medical card or a driver’s license, if it displays the Social Security number.
SSN even required for refund
Stollenwerk said he is particularly puzzled by AAFES’ requirement to provide an SSN to get a refund. When he tried to return a shirt to an AAFES store in 2005, the employee required his Social Security number, even though he had paid by credit card and wanted the refund on his card.
“I wouldn’t give them my number, they wouldn’t give me the refund, so I left the shirt,” he said. “I disputed it on my credit card and won the dispute.”
Anstey said SSNs are required for refunds so AAFES can check whether the customer has a bad check in the system and, if so, recoup the money, and as a safeguard to ensure customers are not trying to obtain a refund fraudulently.
The Navy Exchange Service Command does not require customers to produce SSNs when seeking refunds, but customers must show a document with their SSN on it when paying by check, cashing a check, or making a Western Union transaction of more than $3,000, said spokeswoman Kristine Sturkie.
Coast Guard exchanges require an SSN if the customer is cashing a check or paying by check.
In Marine Corps exchanges, “we do not require proof if the ... SSN is not on their ID card,” said Sara Meadows, point of sale systems manager for the Marine Corps’ Personal & Family Readiness Division.
The Defense Commissary Agency uses the military sponsor’s SSN when the family member pays by check, said spokesman Ronald Kelly.
Jean Ann Fox, director of consumer protection for the Consumer Federation of America, said it is “certainly inconsistent for these activities to demand a Social Security number, when the Defense Department is ... removing it” from ID cards.
“This is bureaucracy gone crazy,” Stollenwerk said.
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http://www.armytimes.com/issues/stories/0-ARMYPAPER-3677745.php
Editorial: Keep SSNs private
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Posted : August 25, 2008
The Defense Department is in the midst of a multiyear effort to eliminate full Social Security numbers from ID cards.
The new Common Access Card issued to service members does not include SSNs. ID cards for family members and retirees will also drop SSNs, or at least all but the last four digits, within a few years.
Many states no longer use SSNs for driver’s license numbers.
The reason is simple: In the digital age, a Social Security number is all a savvy thief needs to steal someone’s identity and ruin his credit rating.
“Today, all of our [computer] systems can ‘talk’ to each other, so we don’t necessarily need to know all of that information printed on your card,” Mary Dixon, the Defense Department’s Common Access Card program manager, said in April.
Not quite all systems. The Army and Air Force Exchange Service and Navy Exchange Service Command still require patrons paying by check to produce a document showing their SSN. AAFES even requires an SSN to process a refund on a returned item.
That means that even as SSNs vanish from ID cards, the exchanges are forcing patrons to physically possess some other crucial document, such as a Social Security card or a passport, in order to write a check or get a refund at the stores.
The AAFES and NEXCOM policies are defeating the Defense Department’s efforts to get Social Security numbers out of public view.
No commercial retailer would require customers to verify Social Security numbers. No military exchange should, either.
Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:18 am by Mike
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murphy2
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| Joined: | Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 05:50 am |
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#62. I have a name! My name is Marcus T. Murphy. I am not a cow. I do not have a brand or except a number, or anything, as an Identification. You may call me Mr. or SSgt. Murphy. If You wish to call me anything else. I will personally kick your A**. I will die before you make me a form of chattel. I except my SS# to only humor you and make my life easy. I am an American, that should comfort you or you'll loose sleep. It's up to you???!!.
Last edited on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 08:30 pm by murphy2
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MetalChris
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 09:02 am |
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Mike wrote: Judd Anstey, an AAFES spokesman, said the Defense Department uses Social Security numbers “for all financial transactions to identify and locate service members and their authorized dependents.”
“Consequently, AAFES must continue to require SSNs for certain financial transactions — i.e. checks and refunds at military exchanges — until the military services and DoD develop alternate methods of identifying service members and their families,” he said.
The SSNs of spouses and other family members “are used to validate them as shoppers,” Anstey said.
I call bullcrap on this one! Why the hell would he need our SSN to verify that we're authorized to use the facility? Wouldn't the proper ID be proof enough?
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CrossBow33
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 05:22 am |
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| I seem to remember that when my brother & I went to the Post Office in New Britain, Ct in 1964-ish, we were told or perhaps read in the accompanying paperwork that the Social Security card was specifically not to be used for identification. Did it just morph, over time, into "your papers"?
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mazellan819
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 03:38 am |
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| #91
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The Donkey
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:59 am |
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| Good luck with this, Mike!
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:19 am |
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| Let's spread the word on this - am kind oif surprized there are so few sigs~!
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frommycolddeadhands
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Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 08:39 pm |
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| #97 USAF! I'll put the word out when I get back to my shop, see if we can't boost these numbers a bit. Someone should have done this a long time ago. Bring back the Service Number if need be!
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Mack 12ga.
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 05:04 pm |
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| 102 AND COUNTING Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 12:14 am by Mack 12ga.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 05:16 pm |
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Try to post this peititon link on some blogs and the like - should have more sigs by now!
http://www.petitiononline.com/NOSSN4ID
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CrossFire
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| Joined: | Thu Nov 29th, 2007 |
| Location: | Irving, Texas USA |
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Posted: Sat Sep 13th, 2008 03:22 pm |
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| #105 I have 3 nephews in the marines, 2 are in Irac as we speak
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forever_frost
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| Joined: | Sun Aug 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Cooper, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 59 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 13th, 2008 11:25 pm |
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#106. Specialist Batchelor OIF Disabled Vet
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Sheepdawg
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 11:02 pm |
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#112 I hate rattling off my social everytime some base agency needs to look up my info. Call me paranoid, but you never know who's listening.
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CrossBow33
Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 09:24 pm |
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#113
My retired ID card has it... my DoD civilian CAC card does not.
My Washington state drivers' license doesn't, either...but it has one of those "readable" strips on the back and God only know what's on that. I had heard several years ago that the DoD was going to issue new "dogtags" that had everyone's personal/personnel data encrypted on the back. Hopefully, reason prevailed.
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Sonora Rebel
Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 10:07 pm |
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#114 USN
I'm tryin' to remember when we went from Service Numbers to SSN's... 'Might have been '65 or '66. My Service Number was 539-26-66... (some things ya never forget). This was way before identity theft was a problem... or personal computers 'n the internet were invented. I'd highly recommend returning to Service Numbers.
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I the Person
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:01 pm |
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I signed it.
I'm really surprised that no one here has mentioned the incident from May 2006 where a laptop belonging to the VA, containing a database with personal info from "more than 26 million veterans", was stolen from the home of a VA employee during a burglary.
I remember being concerned about ID theft, and I received a letter from the VA alerting me to the possibility that my personal information had been compromised.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/08/vets.data/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/29/AR2006062900352.html
How secure is your SSN?: http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm
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shad0wfax
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 02:06 am |
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Signed #121
USN veteran, and disgruntled about the lack of proper security with our SSN's. In my file was a list of every single person who qualified on the M9 when I did, and although all of the SSN's except mine was blacked out with a Sharpie marker, I could still read each other SSN on the list by holding the paper up to the light.
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Mudwalker
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 04:48 pm |
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#125
GySgt USMC Retired
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